Romans?

[Celtic_Kerr]

I'm guessing this is just going to be a large discussion saying the same thing over and over again. I'm gonna guess that it wasn't called Italy back then, and the fact that the Roman EMpire lay at it's heart has something to do with it. Rome was never more than a city, they never cammed the land "ROME". But the warriors of rome spread forth, along with the neighboring towns, conquered a shit ton of land and named it the roman empire.

Why wern't all those conquered by Alexander the Great known as Greeks once they were considered to be part of his empire?

 

[The Bum]

Romans are called romans because they spoke latin which orginated in a place called roma

 

[AyrSuppli]

This might have already been said, but it's because when people say "Roman", they're talking about the Roman empire, not the city. There was a saying when Rome still ruled most of the world - "The sun never sets on the Roman Empire". It came into popularity because it showed just how much they had conquered.

 

[WaywardHaymaker]

At the time, there was no Italy. Rome was the capital and most powerful city in the Empire, which expanded from Europe to the Middle East.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

what have the romans ever done for us?

pizza

super mario

and other great things

Plumbing. Indoor plumbing is one of the greatest unappreciated luxuries. Also, their aqueduct technology was impressive, but that's part of the plumbing.

But as for my favorite old empire, I would have to say the Nordic groups have always intrigued me. Their take on gods and ragnarok is very fun to read about.

And about Italy, I don't think it was named "Italy" until after it unified, after being oppressed by the Napoleonic French and Austrians.

 

[Beliyal]

Since the thread seems to have been answered, I would like to borrow it, if only for a bit.

What is your favorite ancient civilisation, and why?

My favourite civilization would the Minoan. In case there are people that don't know, Minoans were a civilization that settled on the island of Crete and were the first civilization in Europe. They were not Greeks (although it is not yet known what ethnic group the Minoans belonged to, but it is almost certain they weren't Greek). Their palace of Knossos is supposed to be the source for the mythical Labyrinth and the story about Theseus and the Minotaur. They worshipped bulls and had this sport called bull-leaping where people would run towards a bull and jump over them. They had a writing system, which is not deciphered and probably never will be, but the later Mycenaean writing was modelled after Minoan and Mycenaeans were Greeks. Anyway, why I love them? They were a peaceful civilization that never went to war, they were most probably led by women priestesses that walked around in dresses that were bare-chested (probably all women walked dressed like that; showing breast was not really a problem for these people), they picked flowers (and probably drugged themselves with them), had processions, drank wine, travelled the seas and traded with the entire eastern Mediterranean. Oh, it appears they sometimes sacrificed and ate children. Kids are a bother anyway (also, it seems that this practice of sacrificing children led to the myth about the Minotaur). So, they were pretty much a pacifist matriarchal state that could afford being lazy all day long. Well, the thing about the children might have spoiled their reputations, but seriously; who wouldn't love living like that? Alright, if you survived your childhood that is.

what have the romans ever done for us?

This made me lol. Python references are best when not expected.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Rome was were the Senate and Populus Qf Rome was, they were pretty much the controllers and ultimate rulers of the empire.

 

[Chris^^]

what have the romans ever done for us?

pizza

super mario

and other great things

oh you... you missed the point of that
and that was the Italians and Japanese respectively anyway
silly sausage

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

There hasn't been an 'Italy' until 1816 .... thats when the 'Il Risorgimento' began.

In the classical world, nobody thought of eachother in terms of 'nation' ... 'nations' are constructs of the high Medieval and Renaissance, not the Classical Period.

Citizenry and citizenship was thought of in terms of 'what city were you born into?'. Which is why the word 'Citizen' is the way it is.

 

[SimuLord]

Rome in classical times was a lot like New York City now. Its inhabitants were incapable of comprehending that there was an actual world beyond their city limits that wasn't (to them) "the suburbs".

Citizenry and citizenship was thought of in terms of 'what city were you born into?'

From the Latin "civis", meaning "city."

 

[Caligulove]

Italy was once the Roman Empire, thus dubbed 'Romans' for the extent of the Empire.
After that, the Byzantines spent some time and raided the city-states. But all the while The 'Italy' as we know it today was a bunch of kingdoms and city-states loosely in the same land mass

The unified nation of Italy only came into existence in the 19th century.
theres your answer

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Rome in classical times was a lot like New York City now. Its inhabitants were incapable of comprehending that there was an actual world beyond their city limits that wasn't (to them) "the suburbs".

Citizenry and citizenship was thought of in terms of 'what city were you born into?'

From the Latin "civis", meaning "city."

Yeah :x You know a friend of mine wrote (what I thought was) a good essay on the subject of European city's willingness to openly adopt with fervor the internal conflicts (in sports) due to the innate competition and unique vision of identity that the European continent has entertained for thousands of years before the formation of collective bodies beyond the idea of 'Empire'.

It was a good read and makes alot of sense. She hypothesised the idea the reason why competition in sport based enterprises on the city level was so fierce in Europe rather than in the colonies (like US, Australia, Canada, etc) was because of a history of insular city politics that was the norm for all of Europe until the end of empires.

 

[Beliyal]

Anyway, why I love them? They were a peaceful civilization that never went to war

I love the Minoans too, but I'd point out that this is what people used to say about the Mayas too, and it turned out to be spectacularly wrong. The Minoans seem to have produced high-quality weaponry, which would be unusual in a people that never went to war. They didn't build much in the way of fortifications, but this might simply indicate that there were few foreign elements that could threaten them, not that they didn't make war. (The Shang Chinese didn't build much in the way of fortifications either.)

Actually, I read that most of the weapons found on Crete were actually used in some rituals and not for warfare. Also, not much of it was found in the first place; so, there weren't much weapons found and most of them were positively not used in wars which leaves a pretty small number of possible warriors. Even their famous labryses were only a tool used in religious rituals and not axes used for war or anything else for that matter.

Dunno actually, I've taken two classes about the Minoans in college and both times, professors made it clear that the Minoans didn't participate in wars. Not enough weaponry was found and most of the found one was not even used for war. They also never (I believe) showed an image of a warrior; it all came later with the Mycenaeans.

Now, it is possible that they did fight between each other, but no specific conclusive evidence was found (yet at least).

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Since the thread seems to have been answered, I would like to borrow it, if only for a bit.

What is your favorite ancient civilisation, and why?

The Qin Dynasty. Because they laid the groundworks for future Chinese dynasties that would make it a centre of trade for (arguably) 2000 years. Theres a reason why many imperial powers (minus Spain) took an interest in China (or at the very least dumped their silver and gold there).

 

[Wurek]

FFS! It's because they're completley other people. After the end of the western empire diferent tribes and ethnic groups mixed with the native people. The area of Italy and it's residents were later joined with other italian cities.

 

[Littlee300]

Didn't the papal states take over Rome? Eh who cares. The Romans wasn't that great because they were very decentralized.

 

[nick n stuff]

that is one good question. it has been answered so i won't repeat what so many before me have said but that would have been my guess

 

[SimuLord]

Rome in classical times was a lot like New York City now. Its inhabitants were incapable of comprehending that there was an actual world beyond their city limits that wasn't (to them) "the suburbs".

Citizenry and citizenship was thought of in terms of 'what city were you born into?'

From the Latin "civis", meaning "city."

Yeah :x You know a friend of mine wrote (what I thought was) a good essay on the subject of European city's willingness to openly adopt with fervor the internal conflicts (in sports) due to the innate competition and unique vision of identity that the European continent has entertained for thousands of years before the formation of collective bodies beyond the idea of 'Empire'.

It was a good read and makes alot of sense. She hypothesised the idea the reason why competition in sport based enterprises on the city level was so fierce in Europe rather than in the colonies (like US, Australia, Canada, etc) was because of a history of insular city politics that was the norm for all of Europe until the end of empires.

I dunno, I grew up in Boston and by that logic "Beat LA" and "Yankees Suck" chants sure sound like a proud continuation of that European tradition.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

Italy was not a unified country until sometime around 1861, it was a collection of city-states that united under the banner of Rome back during the Roman Empire. I'm sure people knew about the Roman Empire far before then, so calling them Italians wouldn't have seemed correct if Italy wasn't even a country yet.

 

[Beliyal]

Anyway, why I love them? They were a peaceful civilization that never went to war

I love the Minoans too, but I'd point out that this is what people used to say about the Mayas too, and it turned out to be spectacularly wrong. The Minoans seem to have produced high-quality weaponry, which would be unusual in a people that never went to war. They didn't build much in the way of fortifications, but this might simply indicate that there were few foreign elements that could threaten them, not that they didn't make war. (The Shang Chinese didn't build much in the way of fortifications either.)

Actually, I read that most of the weapons found on Crete were actually used in some rituals and not for warfare.

Some of these claims are dubious, though. For example, there've been archaeologists who've claimed that the hafts of Minoan weapons precluded their use as practical weapons; this was disproved when replicas were built and the resulting weapons were in fact quite lethal. There've been claims that Minoan "figure-eight" shields were too cumbersome for practical use, but after the business of the sword-hafts I'm inclined to regard such claims with a grain of salt. There've been claims that Minoan "weapons" were all used for innocuous things like processing meat and chopping salads, which can't exactly be disproved but which I find fanciful.

I'm sure the Minoan pacifism meme does make its way into undergrad courses, but it's best to treat that kind of thing with a lot of caution. I'm sure a lot of undergrads heard the "Mayan stargazers" meme reported as fact in their day, too.

Well, since Minoans are still pretty hard to understand, I doubt we'll ever know for sure. Even if their weapons could have been used for war, doesn't mean they actually were. However, same works the other way; just because they didn't have frescoes showing warfare, doesn't mean they didn't fight. It is still highly unlikely that they even had a need to fight anyone; maybe only between each other (it is still not clear whether Knossos was some sort of administrative centre of Crete or it was only just another palace). It is hard to know for sure, but even if they did fight occasionally, it definitively wasn't something they indulged in all the time which would make them, if not complete pacifists, then at least partial ones. Also, as far as I know, figure-eight shields are Mycenaean imports.

Well, whatever the cause, Minoans are pretty fascinating to me despite all. And I've never had a chance to talk about them with someone, people always seemed uninterested in them. Thank you random forum stranger!