RPGs Should Ditch the Stats

[shadow_hazuki]

*sigh* There are many stances that can be taken on this, but it seems most agree that stats are vital to RPGs. I think what the author is trying to point out is that RPGs are Role Playing Games, in which you play out roles like an actor with all the choices and whetnot involved, and not a grindfest which is what WoW essentially breaks down into. Sure WoW has the story elements and RP servers, but there are no real big decisions you get to make, do quest or don't do quest. Aldor or Scryer? If anyone here has played the beginning areas for Death Knights, you'd know that there was a battle and the Lich King was alone in his fight against the Argent Dawn. I wanted so badly for my character to be able to join up on the Lich King's side and attempt to help him defeat the Argent Dawn. But WoW doesn't offer that choice, every single Roleplaying aspect of WoW is handled by them, leaving no decisions up to you.

Stats are important, don't get me wrong. But stats aren't everything, an RPG should be more like a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book with many more expanded choices, with stats in the background to make sure everything is handled correctly. Going back to WoW, it makes no sense that a level 80 warrior should be able to beat a level 40 warrior with all equipment taken off. Even with equipment, only the magical or enchanted items should be better anyway. Why should a perfectly good level 40 sword be completely useless against an unarmored level 80? Even though the dodge and parry ratings are all there, when it hits, it takes the tiniest chunk off of their health bar. And moving to health, why does a level 80 with no equipment have thousands of life points and a level 40 barely reaching over 2,000? Two Orc grunts standing side by side in Warcraft 3 have the same exact health.

The only thing that really could be taken out from the stats world is overall levels, perhaps magic users can retain them simply so they can know what level of spellcasting they can do but generally everyone should have no need of levels. Skills, talents, and abilities can keep their stats, and only to show how skilled you are in that specific area obviously. RPGs should be about crafting a character of your choice and developing them along a storyline (of your own crafting) set in a world space, not about grind to level 80 and join in on EVERYONE ELSE'S quest to defeat the Lich King.

 

[KapnKerfuffle]

I've always felt that the most common stats (STR CON INT WIS DEX CHAR) were missing something. Certain things bother me like how could it be possible to have a high STR with a very low CON. And the wisdom stat always bothered me. What is it really? I just seem like another word for intelligence. I always thought they were too simplistic. People are more complex.

 

[G-Virus]

I always thought stats were one of the best parts of the RPG genre, not to mention...well, kind of necessary.

I mean, who doesn't feel just a little bit awesome when you unwittingly level up and see "Strength +1, Magic +4", or something to that effect?

 

[G-Virus]

I just had a thought: what if, in addition to the six regular stats, they added Sims-esque stats, like "Energy" or "Hunger"?

I know that Oblivion kind of touched on that with the Fatigue thing, but when have you ever seen, in an RPG, your character starve to death, or refuse to save the princess because "he doesn't feel like it right now?"

...

 

[Blood_Lined]

I have always thought that the stats were fun, and easy to work with in order to create a different character the next time you play.

I like stats, and I believe that if stats are removed from RPG's, then they would not be able to be really referred to as RPG games.

 

[wetfart]

There are plenty of dice-less systems out there.

I played a short mini-campaign were the more you described your character's actions the more d6's you got to roll towards determining your success. Saying "I attack" got you 1d6 and you had to get a 4 or higher to determine success. If you went into great detail about how you were attacking and where you got more and more dice. It was a neat game that got the group to think more about story than stat bonuses.

Furthermore, awesome trumps rules every single time.

 

[Epona]

My first question would be upon getting rid of number based statistics, what would they replace them with?

Letters? Pies?

RPG's need the statistics, otherwise it isn't what it claims to be.

Statistics=\=role-playing-game. Stats as seen are a relic from when, you know, we didn't have computers.


I've been advocating something like this for a long time, but people are determined that games without states are "casual".

So you want the next Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, Fable, etc... to be a Sims clone?

Without stats levels mean nothing, without levels progress is measured by story progress alone and then it becomes just another action or adventure game.

 

[Vrach]

So... advertising an article in a news post? I don't get it :\

 

[lososthefish]

Min-maxing, builds, character stats development and depth in this regard are the only reason I like some RPGs. I like to invest my brain cells in that. That's what i liked in games like Ragnarok Online or Path of Exile. To each his own, please don't take it from me. When WoW became too simple - the lack of control over the stats was disappointing enough - it just wasn't any fun for me. I want my casul games, those are great fun, but also games that aren't made with filthy console peasants in mind, but rather despite them

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I really think what is needed most in rpgs/ mmorpgs right now is variety moreso than anything. I do not think stats are necessary to making a successful and fun to play game, however, I do think that the current class based/ stat / level based models are now monotonous and extremely over done and in great need of variety. Too many have been afraid to break the molds because they use what they know worked for other games, regardless of that means people losing interest because they are tired of doing the same ol same ol and thirst for something different. I want to see variety, innovation, creativity and giving more options to the player rather than developer scripted games where you are along for the ride rather than choose how you play the game. Stats have been only one of the many ways we can develop and personalize characters, however that is not to say that there isn't other just as fun ways to do that as well. Just because we are familiar with stats and are comfortable with them does not mean there are not other things we will enjoy as well. There is no " This is the only way to do it" when it comes to making a character fun and challenging to play.

 

[Dandark]

I think the problem is that RPG is such a vague name to use for the genre.

Role Playing Game? Nearly any game could claim that. I think of Shadow of Mordor as an RPG yet that doesn't have any levelling up stats for combat, you just gain new abilities. Your basic damage stays the same for the whole game, you don't dump skill points into strength or anything like that.

I like the classic statfest RPG games, I enjoy messing around with my characters stats and min maxing builds but RPG is such a vague and generic term for the genre. I feel these kind of games are becoming more of a sub genre within the overall RPG genre which sounds good to me.

 

[Olrod]

RPGs have enjoyed a number of vast improvements over the years - beautiful graphics, the ability to play with people all over the world - but their stubborn fixation on a character's abilities being tied to numbers prevents them from evolving as a game genre.

Platformers have enjoyed a number of vast improvements over the years - beautiful graphics, the ability to play with people all over the world - but their stubborn fixation on a character's abilities being tied to jumping on platforms prevents them from evolving as a game genre.

FPSs have enjoyed a number of vast improvements over the years - beautiful graphics, the ability to play with people all over the world - but their stubborn fixation on a character's abilities being tied to shooting guns prevents them from evolving as a game genre.

Sports games have enjoyed a number of vast improvements over the years - beautiful graphics, the ability to play with people all over the world - but their stubborn fixation on a character's abilities being tied to choosing the right team prevents them from evolving as a game genre.

Racing games have enjoyed a number of vast improvements over the years - beautiful graphics, the ability to play with people all over the world - but their stubborn fixation on a character's abilities being tied to the car you're driving prevents them from evolving as a game genre.