Rumor: Activision Doesn't Think Female Leads Can Sell Games

lumenadducere

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Wait, you mean to tell me publishers will rely on market research in the vain hopes of selling more copies rather than listening to their developers? And they stifle creativity? What a shock! I am so shocked. I am emitting a tangible aura of shock to all around me.

In all fairness, though, the gaming population at large has shown some pretty depressing trends when it comes to their purchasing power, so I wouldn't be surprised if their thoughts were true and that female leads do actually sell less. I don't think that's really the case, and I'd love to see more female leads, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 

WrathOfBanja

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TestECull said:
Credge said:
So you're saying that the main character being a female is the reason the game sold? Because, that's exactly what you wrote. Are you saying that Portal wouldn't have sold well if it had a male as the main character?

Because, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

There is no causation there.
WrathOfBanja said:
No, its really not. Chell didnt sell Portal. Portal's unique gameplay sold Portal. Chell's female status was completely unimportant.
So yes, my post did have bearing on the matter at hand, because it shows how Portal is a completely terrible example for proving Activision wrong.
Activision said games with female leads don't sell. Portal has a female lead, it sold like crazy.

Whether or not it was vital to the game to have said female lead never came up until people here brought it in.
You're missing the point... Or you're just trollin me. Either way, I give up. I cant make my point any clearer.
 

Motiv_

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I have no problem with female main characters, so long as they aren't like Dead Space: Downfall's lead. Women so pumped up on adrenaline and testosterone, with such graty, annoying, and swear filled voices the only way you can tell they're not a man is by checking between their legs.

I know this is meant to make her seem like "Just one of the guys", but it doesn't work at all. I vastly prefer someone reminiscent of L4D's Zoey, a funny, slightly feminine character that doesn't scream like a banshee, swear like a sailor or bark like a drill sergeant.
 

Krantos

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Well, gee. Maybe that's because very few games can actually pull off a female lead.

Seriously, the bulk of games that feature female characters as their main protagonist have a lot in common with X-Blades and Bayonetta. Why?

Because the industry has this idea that the only women gamers want to see are the ones with their assets hanging out. I see enough of that in my day job. I want strong, relateable female characters that "can do all that men can do" while still remaining a woman.

Don't think it can be done? Check FemShep from Mass Effect. Or Jen Mui from the first Mercenaries. How about f-ing Samus?

As if I needed more evidence that Activision has their head and rectum transposed.
 

Taddy

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Sounds like they got their head so far up their asses that the stomach acid ate at their brains...
 

OneOfTheMichael's

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Hmmmm well i see that they want the majority of gamers to play their games.(which are most hardcore shooters that attract more of the male gaming audience then the female)
And some gamers believe that woman would not be as bad-ass or cool as a tough, burly, gun nut man. (This is juts my opinion, not any judges that are meant to hurt anybody)
 

bkeyt

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Let's not forget Bayonetta, which had better action than Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, and God of War. That was a great game with a female lead, who was very tongue-in-cheek about her sexuality.
 

jamesworkshop

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Credge said:
If anyone really thinks people bought Metroid/Portal/Resident Evil/Mirror's Edge/Whatever other game because it had a female lead... you're just an absurd sexist plain and simple.
You're looking at this the wrong way round people are not saying that female characters increase sales for the obvious symetry that plenty of games with male leads do not sell well

The reasoning they are using is that having Female lead characters didn't lose game sales evidenced by plenty of games that have done well with female protagonists.

Aside from that people should be incredibly suspicious of uncredited sources, if it was the truth people would put their name by it
 

Arcane Azmadi

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You know, despite the fact that dozens of people have already listed popular female leads and I KNOW the position is wrong, I CAN see where Activision are coming from on this (assuming the rumour is actually) true. It's a stupid place, but I can see it.

What is the biggest-selling game Activision has ever made? Modern Warfare 2. What are the other biggest games on the Xbox360? Halo and Gears of War. What are 2 of the biggest and most prominent games on the PS3? God of War III and Uncharted 2. What is one of the biggest games on BOTH consoles? Grand Theft Auto IV. NONE have playable female characters. While the gamer audience here may love female leads, we're the tiny minority that make up the sales records of these titles. The vast majority of sales is made up by male gamers who think macho, testosterone-fueled "hard men" are the only heroes (or anti-heroes) worth playing with. Bayonetta only barely managed to outsell God of War III, despite both coming out earlier AND being on 2 consoles while GoWIII was a PS3 exclusive. Its sales are also roughly on par with Darksiders, despite Darksiders being a pointedly inferior game.

So while Activision's attitude is not only stupid but not helping the problem, to be honest I can't ENTIRELY say they're completely wrong. While there have been a lot of GREAT games with female leads, and even some really well-selling ones, games with male leads simply sell better. You know you're making a mistake when you're citing Jade from Beyond Good And Evil. That game usually tops the 'Best Game No-one Bought' lists more than any other.

So Activision can see the problem- the thing is that they're only contributing to it, rather than trying to be part of the solution by making more female leads in good games. And I mean GOOD female leads, not brainless T&A eye candy like goddamn Bloodrayne.
 

Meemaimoh

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Hurray Forums said:
Irridium said:
Yeah, because games with a female lead have never made a major impact on gaming.


I hate focus groups so much. And this pisses me off. Your game won't sell well if it has a male-lead. Stop focusing on pointless things and focus on actually making the games fun.

Morons.
Tons of people say games with female leads can sell really well, yet the first game that people ALWAYS bring up in topics like this is a character who purposely had their femininity hidden in their original game except for the obligatory fanservice at the end of the game, and ever since has only had said femininity exposed for more fanservice(*glares at Zero Suit Samus*). Samus is NOT a female character, it's a robot suit that the developers decided "Hey, lets throw a chick in their to mess with some people's heads". Doesn't the fact that the only truly popular female lead character that gaming can offer up has their femininity hidden behind a cold metal shell kind of imply that maybe it's not as far off the mark as people say? The only time female leads(where it's not a "choose your own sex" game) really have sold well is in the "blatant fanservice role" like in Tomb Raider, Dead or Alive, and Bayonetta. All the games that have female leads that are actually identifiable as female and not blatant fan service like Mirror's Edge, Xenosaga, Beyond Good and Evil, and The Longest Journey haven't sold very well at all. Sure, they're cult favorites and were rated high by critics, but that doesn't mean they sold well. That's not to say that we shouldn't demand more games with female leads and that developers shouldn't make them, but more along the lines that the fear developers have of actually doing it isn't entirely unfounded, and that placing the blame all on them isn't very fair. Actual gamers shape the industry just as much as developers.
Sadly, I agree 100% with this. People are bringing up characters like Kerrigan or Zelda or Peach, but they're not leads (except for spinoff games). To each of these games, there's a male lead, and he's the one whose head the gamer is invited to inhabit.

It's not just games, either. Think of your favourite action movies. Even Terminator 2 - home of one of the best female characters in sci fi - asks the audience to follow her son. The only two exceptions I can think of are Terminator and Aliens. Pretty much everything else, from Lord of the Rings to Die Hard, is pretty much full of testosterone.

Should it be this way? Hell no. I'd love to see more Jades and Faiths. Hopefully more companies will be willing to take a risk in the future.
 

WrathOfBanja

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Meemaimoh said:
People are bringing up characters like Kerrigan or Zelda or Peach, but they're not leads (except for spinoff games). To each of these games, there's a male lead, and he's the one whose head the gamer is invited to inhabit.
I agree with almost everything you said, except I think that Kerrigan is as much of a lead as Raynor. I mean, she does kinda lead the Zerg...

Come to think of it, the Protoss didnt really have a main character huh?
 

CitySquirrel

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WrathOfBanja said:
Personally, I dont think I would play a GTA game with a female lead
Have you really decided that no matter what the game is like, you will hate it because the lead is female? As to a woman's size, nothing is realistic in GTA but that has to be?
 

Tarakos

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You know, I remember once upon a time, when EA was the epitomy of gamer ire. My, how times have changed. But this does sound like something Activision would do, honestly. Really, it's gotten to the point where Activision is a cancer on the industry. As long as Bobby Kotick is in charge, harm will continue to be done. Be it overpriced map packs, working studios to the brink, or this blatant sexism, Activision is now King Douchbag. Well played Activision. We are all so jealous.
 

WrathOfBanja

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CitySquirrel said:
WrathOfBanja said:
Personally, I dont think I would play a GTA game with a female lead
Have you really decided that no matter what the game is like, you will hate it because the lead is female? As to a woman's size, nothing is realistic in GTA but that has to be?
I didnt say I'd hate it. I just dont have any confidence it would be better than any of the other GTA games.

And really, its a lot more believable that a crazy ass 160+ pound russian/black/italian/(whateverthefuckclaudewas) guy is carjacking people with their bare hands than a 120 pound lady. I would believe it if it was some husky/ripped chick, but I dont wanna play as a husky/ripped chick just so the main being a woman makes sense.
 

Therumancer

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Hmmm, I'm surprised that nobody has brought up "Saint's Row" with it's character customization, and how many people were jumping all over the chance to play a female character in "Saint's Row 2". When the game came out it seems like 75% of the traffic on Gamefaqs and a few other sites was about people showing off their crime queens and so on. I even made one myself.

Other than that, I will point out that for those who have listed off tons of female characters, that only a tiny handfull of them have actually held down a blockbuster game. The gaming industry on the other hand is littered with the "corpses" of games that have tried to feature female protaganists that didn't do very well. Of course then again a lot of that comes down to budget, and how good the games were themselves. A company like Activision that is focusing on "AAA" titles based on corperate forecasting is not incorrect that male characters are infinatly more successful. For every "Samus Aran" you can probably find two or three well known male characters from successful game franchises. Let's say they are rating the odds of success as like 33% for a female character and 66% for a guy (with like 1% for the off chance someone might want to create a game about a Hermaphrodite or whatever) when the guys with the money roll the dice they want the best chance of success.

Of course corperations have never been good at the creative process itself, the next blockbuster is usually something risky that does really well, and is then the fodder the industry will exploit from there on out.

While I was called a Misogynist recently (by someone who didn't even seem to know what the word actually means, but it still burns), I will also stick my neck out and say that creating female characters comes with it's one suite of special challenges. A male action hero is a male action hero, they differ in their personalities and such but are rarely put under a magnifying glass. With women it tends to be differant where as soon as you decide to make a female protaganist you have to deal with people who are going to jump on a perfect physical specimin (the way male heroes are in their own way) and start screaming about eye candy, and "burn fantasy art" and so on (even if the artists happen to be female). Then of course you come down to the matter of personality and how such a character can act, this also gets examined under a microscope. As "Yahtzee" pointed out in one of his rants on Tomb Raider, Lara Croft has gone through massive personality re-writes over the year, where she started out as a somewhat playful treasure hunter in the mould of an "Indiana Jones" villain, the attention she got as eye candy seemed to result in her being re-interpeted as a sort of Amazon "I am woman, hear me roar" type of character.

The point here being is that as much as it would be nice to have a female character who just goes out and does her thing, the fact that it's a female character means that the issue of her femininity HAS to be brought up and commented on for some reason. We need to have some comments about men (good, bad, or neutral) just for the sake of having the comments, even if it's just a groan worthy comment about being a heroine in a man's world or something. Writers should stay away from it, but they will be made to get into it, and in the end it comes down sort of like what would happen if an action blockbuster (either game or movie) featuring he-men, had scenes involved where the characters pointedly commented about their masculinity and their place in the world or something. Just as a healthy, busty, young lady might make comments about this in a game "just because she needs to", imagine what would happen if say Chris Redfield made some comments about his unusually sized biceps the same way without it being intended as a joke "Yes, I do have arms bigger around than my neck, but stop looking at the awesome definition, I have a face you know? And we need to focus on the mission at hand".

That said, we'll see what happens down the road.


Oh and for the record, I agree about anonymous sources for the most part, I will however point out that with a series name like "True Crime" it's possible that the idea of the female lead was nixed (assuming it was part of the same series) largely because organized crime tends to be very sexist, and while there were some rare exceptions (and countless works of fantasy), I think they are out to build off of a stereotype. The Lucy Liu thing (Payback, Kill Bill) might be entertaining, but I think shows like "The Sopranos" and various Yakuza/Triad dramas represented the more realistic, yet still cinematic/fantastic approach they were going for. "Saint's Row 2" proved it *CAN* work, and perhaps we'll see the "Black Lotus" idea at some point outside of that franchise..... of course I could be wrong here if it was intended to be it's own title to begin with (I'm sort of confused on that point since when they finished it, it was a True Crime game which is a franchise, something that implies it was conceived as part of the franchise to begin with... I can't say too much about True Crime in general as I have yet to play that series).