RUMOR: Is Marvel Canceling Fantastic Four Comics to Hurt Fox's New Movie?

faefrost

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I suspect that if the rumor is true it is less about the comics themselves, after all what is the circulation of individual comics? 100,000? Maybe 200,000 if FF gets anywhere near that? No the thing Marvel is shutting down is the merchandising. Notice how we do not see a bunch of X Men toys on shelves to correspond to the DofP movie? Not a lot of related products. Sony used to have merchandising rights to their movies until they sold them back to Marvel. But I don't think Fox has ever had them for any of it's movie licenses. And the Merchandising is where the pop culture lives. Without it what does the general public know of Fantastic Four? Just the previous two bad Fox movies. Show of hands? Who will run out to see more of that?

Marvel is particularly pissed at Fox regarding the FF. When Fox was losing the rights to Daredevil, Electra, Punisher and Ghost Rider (possibly Blade to? I don't remember?) Marvel offered to extend them in a trade. They wanted some of the FF's Cosmic characters back. Galactus, Silver Surfer, Anihilus and the Skrulls. Obviously they wanted to use them for their Phase 3 plans, probably some variation on the Anihilation story arc. Fox said no in some ways that really pissed off the Marvel higher ups.
 

Foolery

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Spot1990 said:
That's what I was thinking. Didn't Marvel produce one of the worst Spider-Man arcs in history to make Peter Parker's webbing part of his mutation purely because of the movies? You know, the one where he turns into a giant spider monster and gives birth to himself.
Yup. Or something to that effect. I didn't read the arc but that summary sounds about right.

In a less drastic change, they altered the X-Men to more resemble their movie versions. I don't know how long that last, because most of the time I still seem images of them in more "classic" style outfits.
Well, Peter Parker did turn into Man-Spider in the 90s animated cartoon and that was before the 2002 movie.
 

SeeDarkly_Xero

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Aiddon said:
SeeDarkly_Xero said:
(though what Fox did with Quicksilver was by far a bigger dick move and I have yet to be convinced that DoFP gained anything significant from his inclusion)
The fact that everyone who saw it, including people who didn't like the movie, saying that Quicksilver was one of the best parts of it. Heck, he's even going to have a bigger part in the next film. So, yeah, looks like they DID gain something significant.
That actually convinces me of nothing. "The fact" is not "a fact;" it's only what some have heard, not "everyone."
DoFP, by every indication I've been given from anyone who has seen it and even those who enjoy his role, did not NEED the addition of Quicksilver to make the story work. Everything I've seen said thus far has been that it looked fantastic, but there is no question it wasn't ever part of the original build of the story. Because it wasn't. It was fully written without him when Fox/Singer decided to add him to the film as a DIRECT response to Whedon announcing the twins would be in Avengers 2.
So yeah, they HAD to make the moment stick out... and clearly it does; even to the extent that some consider it somewhat out of place with the rest of the film.

I have yet to see it so I can't judge fairly from that angle. In fact, I can fairly admit a bit of prejudice on the point.
Especially when the first thing I got to see of DoFP's Quicksilver was a Carl's Jr. breakfast sandwich ad that started airing directly following the weekend of Captain America TWS (which I won't spoil the post credit scene to say why that was relevant and also another dick move.) So not only was the move to utilize him reactionary to the Avenger's news but the first thing we see of him is cheap, gimmicky, promotional tie-in.
I will see it. I imagine I'll be impressed with the cinematography. But I doubt I'll consider it anything they HAD to have added to make the film better. I'm half tempted to wait for the DVD and not watch his part just so I can see how the film works without it first. After all... it's really hard to un-see things.
But the initial point stands... no matter how great a scene it was in the film, it was a move meant to screw Marvel and "protect their rights" more than anything else. The fact that they've doubled-down on Peters role for Apocalypse just furthers the point.
From the comics as source material... it's unwarranted. Quicksilver at no point had any role in the original Days of Future Past or anything related to Apocalypse. So many characters at their disposal... but they "have" to include him?
It's choice. (As it turns out it's a choice that will end with DOFP grossing less in two weeks than Capt. America TWS did in the same amount of time. Cap stayed #1 for 3 weeks. DoFP has fallen from #1 after one.) All that fanfare, but in the end it's seen for what it is.

faefrost said:
I suspect that if the rumor is true it is less about the comics themselves, after all what is the circulation of individual comics? 100,000? Maybe 200,000 if FF gets anywhere near that? No the thing Marvel is shutting down is the merchandising. Notice how we do not see a bunch of X Men toys on shelves to correspond to the DofP movie? Not a lot of related products. Sony used to have merchandising rights to their movies until they sold them back to Marvel. But I don't think Fox has ever had them for any of it's movie licenses. And the Merchandising is where the pop culture lives. Without it what does the general public know of Fantastic Four? Just the previous two bad Fox movies. Show of hands? Who will run out to see more of that?

Marvel is particularly pissed at Fox regarding the FF. When Fox was losing the rights to Daredevil, Electra, Punisher and Ghost Rider (possibly Blade to? I don't remember?) Marvel offered to extend them in a trade. They wanted some of the FF's Cosmic characters back. Galactus, Silver Surfer, Anihilus and the Skrulls. Obviously they wanted to use them for their Phase 3 plans, probably some variation on the Anihilation story arc. Fox said no in some ways that really pissed off the Marvel higher ups.
The new F4 title circulation was est. 65,000 for its first issue and has fallen to almost 35,000 by its third.

If anything, they probably tried to negotiate sharing Skrull rights specifically to include them in Avengers.

Dead Century said:
Well, Peter Parker did turn into Man-Spider in the 90s animated cartoon and that was before the 2002 movie.
Parker as "Man-Spider" was introduced in the comicbook before the cartoon.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Personally I like the X-Men movies and would probably rather they stay separate, at least as long as their continuity makes sense. But the Fantastic 4 are a waste of rights as it is. That said, nor do I particularly like them, so maybe it's better they wallow in their own series made for rights retention where I don't have to see them.
 

teebeeohh

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RealRT said:
teebeeohh said:
RealRT said:
teebeeohh said:
if this is true i will assume that all the stupid shit happening in spider-man is an attempt to hurt sony and not just simple stupidity.
What stupid shit? I follow Spider-Man comics since 2013 Superior Spider-Man run and it was awesome.
spider-man makes a deal with the devil to save his aunt from a gunshot wound so deadly nobody in the whole marvel universe can do anything about it. the reason being that the editors thought stable relationships are boring and this seemed to them the best way to break up him and MJ.
That was six+ years ago, when Marvel had a different editor in chief (by whose mandate the story was made) and Marvel Cinematic Universe wasn't a thing.
and wanting to hurt sony still makes more sense then somebody really thought this was a good idea.
the MCU existed seven years ago. not for us but for Disney is probably existed years earlier.

oh and since you mentioned superior spider-man, that whole deal was pretty stupid as well. not making a deal with the devil stupid but still pretty stupid.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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Anachronism said:
and the Scarlet Witch is less a character than a walking retcon machine. I'm not entirely sure why Fox and Marvel are both so keen to have them in their movies.
The bolded statement is probably a big reason why. Easy reset button, hand wave, wizard did it. Instead its "Scarlet Witch did it", but its an all purpose easy retcon with her (or the Infinity Gauntlet, give SW the IG... retcon nuke).
 

Nowhere Man

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Dayum. Shots fired. I think every decision that's gone into the new Fantastic Four movie are so unbelievably stupid that deep inside I keep hoping that Fox just cancels the whole damn thing. If this is true I guess this is Marvel's own way of expressing it's disapproval. Chronicle was a great film though.

I don't mind so much X-Men staying with Fox. They proved with DoFP that they can make a solid X-film while correcting many (but not all) continuity issues from past films. Plus the X-Universe is just way to large to throw on Marvel Studio's lap as they have enough to deal with already. I have years worth of X-Men comics and I look at the movies as just another alternate take on it. Lord knows its been reinvented dozens of times in the books anyway. There is going to be the missed opportunity for the next X-Men film affecting the entire Marvel Universe(if the film makers even follow the book's version of the story). But we're too early into the MCU to be making those kind of changes anyway.

Where was I? Oh Josh Trank's Fantastic Four. Yeah fuck that movie.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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So if Marvel kills the Fantastic Four, then they won't be able to make anymore movies. Right? What would be stopping Marvel from reinventing FF a year later?
 

RealRT

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teebeeohh said:
RealRT said:
teebeeohh said:
RealRT said:
teebeeohh said:
if this is true i will assume that all the stupid shit happening in spider-man is an attempt to hurt sony and not just simple stupidity.
What stupid shit? I follow Spider-Man comics since 2013 Superior Spider-Man run and it was awesome.
spider-man makes a deal with the devil to save his aunt from a gunshot wound so deadly nobody in the whole marvel universe can do anything about it. the reason being that the editors thought stable relationships are boring and this seemed to them the best way to break up him and MJ.
That was six+ years ago, when Marvel had a different editor in chief (by whose mandate the story was made) and Marvel Cinematic Universe wasn't a thing.
and wanting to hurt sony still makes more sense then somebody really thought this was a good idea.
the MCU existed seven years ago. not for us but for Disney is probably existed years earlier.

oh and since you mentioned superior spider-man, that whole deal was pretty stupid as well. not making a deal with the devil stupid but still pretty stupid.
Disney didn't own Marvel back then. And that year Sony already did a grand job of hurting the Spider-Man movie franchise on their own with Spider-Man 3.
The premise sounded stupid, but the book itself was awesome.
 

likalaruku

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Aiddon said:
well, that sounds incredibly stupid. It's not going to stop the movie from getting attention; the movies actually help the comics, not the other way around. Seems Marvel is making itself out to be a lot more influential than it really is.
This is along the lines of what I was thinking.
 

Elijin

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"not to make use of characters associated with the Fantasic Four franchise"


But arent the Kree, The Watchers and most of the space stuff under that banner? And they're a central part of the M universe?
 

faefrost

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Elijin said:
"not to make use of characters associated with the Fantasic Four franchise"


But arent the Kree, The Watchers and most of the space stuff under that banner? And they're a central part of the M universe?
The Watcher is FF, the Kree are considered under the Avengers banner. They have appeared in FF but were then more or less broken out to their own IP with Captain Marvel. Just as the Inhumans are their own IP now.
 

Lightknight

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Ok, so one of the least interesting comics is getting the ax. I just wish that would have saved us from the movies too. I keep feeling like there is some way to save the FF but every time I read one of their comics or see one of their movies I just glaze over. It's ridiculously sad that the incredibly under-budgeted movie ($1 mil) of the FF that was just done to maintain copyrights was the best movie yet if you're into bad movie nights. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fantastic_Four_%28film%29#Critical_reception]

But, so long FF if true. You won't be missed by me anymore than I'd care if C-span disappeared from my list of TV channels.
 

Lightknight

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Elijin said:
"not to make use of characters associated with the Fantasic Four franchise"


But arent the Kree, The Watchers and most of the space stuff under that banner? And they're a central part of the M universe?
Many characters got their start in one franchise before branching out on their own.

Frankly, it's no surprise to me that more interesting characters had to be spawned in the FF series to make up for the characters' fantastic boring personalities.
 

Something Amyss

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Dead Century said:
Well, Peter Parker did turn into Man-Spider in the 90s animated cartoon and that was before the 2002 movie.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. It's a different story arc.
 

medv4380

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Finally, the Ultimate Universe will end, and the best parts will be merged with 616. Parts of Ultimates were good, but a large portion of it was just bonkers. I could do without cannibalism in my comics.
 

The Enquirer

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This doesn't make any sense though. Movies are widely advertised. Comics aren't. If anything the movie would boost comic sales, not the other way around. This is Marvel just shooting themselves in the foot. Then again in today's age of stupidity that actually isn't to be ruled out.

Granted it would help to have an actual reason behind why they are doing this.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Isn't that like Fox cancelling the movie so not to promote the Fantastic Four comics? I mean, the movie will influence sales of the books as well as vice versa, surely.
 

OrokuSaki

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While it's always nice to have a new conspiracy theory, couldn't it also just be that the Fantastic Four are really, really, ridiculously boring? I mean, I tried to read all of the Ultimate Universe because it was more compact than the mainstream universe and I thought Fantastic Four was boring enough to be unreadable; after transferring to the 616 universe after Spider-Man died I learned that Ultimate FF wasn't a bad title, it was just true to it's dull uninteresting roots.

I think the most I've been interested in the Fantastic Four was during the Onslaught arc, and that's because I thought to myself: "Can't they just throw Franklin at literally every major problem they have?" Now Franklin is older and he still does nothing so that Reed can say things that nobody understands, Sue can say "English please?", a laugh track can play, and then the Thing and Human Torch play grab-ass in a corner until the punching starts.

I'm kinda shocked this series wasn't already cancelled years ago. Maybe the Fantastic Four can be like Namor and Doctor Strange and just float through the books of more interesting characters.
 

sleeky01

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Uriel_Hayabusa said:
I don't read many comics and don't follow the industry so I'm an outsider looking in when it comes to stuff like this. That being said, I wonder: what is up with this Quicksilver character? So, Marvel isn't allowed to use characters in their movies that Fox still has the rights to? Yet both Marvel and Fox have a Quicksilver, but the MCU's isn't a mutant so it's okay or something?*

"COMICS ARE WEIRD" indeed....

*That "He's no mutant" explanation is something I saw on another forum so I don't know if it's accurate.
Afew others have already replied to this I see, But for the sake of completeness it seems appropriate to let Bob himself explain it as he did a loooong time back. :)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5685-Wrongs-Rights