Rumor: Sony Downgrading NGP Tech to Compete with 3DS Pricing

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

And they couldn't just take a hit and release that handheld with all the original specs because...?

I understand that they have to do this, but I don't think it's gonna do anyone any favors. The memory is not even that big of a deal, I can just get a memory card that has a ton of space, but the RAM? I don't know, I will still be getting it despite what they are doing to it.

As long as that handheld can have some amazing games on it and the developers can create those games, then I'm happy.

Oh, and maybe they can axe the name NGP while they are at it, I know it's only temporary, but it just reminds me of a bad rap song.

 

[Treblaine]

Hey, for everyone who cannot use Google Translate, here is the translated text of the source:

http://www.01net.com/editorial/533663/la-ngp-sortira-en-2011-moins-puissante-et-moins-chere-que-prevu/

[HEADING=1]NGP released in 2011, less powerful and less expensive than expected[/HEADING]
To ensure a most affordable price for its new handheld console, Sony has revised its configuration slightly downward and confirmed a Japanese release this year.

Lately, rumors gave the impression that Sony could find itself unable to market its new handheld console by the end of 2011, partly because of the tsunami on 11 March.

Storming (sic - Assault on?) the 3DS
However finally there: NPM released in Japan this December, just in time to enjoy the Christmas period. As usual, the West will settle for an outlet for now loosely scheduled for the first quarter of 2012. Sony has also advised developers that the console would be sold at "very reasonable" , a comment could not be more vague ... which still leaves assume that the manufacturer intends to make a competitive offer.

NPM intends to attack it by Christmas 3DS its flowerbeds tariff? An assumption which, according to our sources, could be imagined. The console will come out well in both versions and can therefore be expected that the cheapest (probably without 3G) is positioned as a direct competitor of 3DS.

Some compromise
Sony has apparently decided to play hard on the price war is not surprising that some features have been downgraded. This applies, in particular, the RAM and the VRAM (video), which were reduced by half since the first drafts presented to developers. NPM will therefore include 256 MB of RAM and 128 MB of VRAM in quick access to the PowerVR. If this decision creates a small frustration in the developer community, its consequences should be very limited.
The size of the operating system should be reduced (compared, for example, the iPhone), releasing the size of RAM for basic tasks. In addition to the 256 MB of RAM "classic", programmers can also use 26 MB of RAM continue, for routines that require quick access and can not be stored in a fragmented form. If memory management is optimized, the downward revision of the RAM should not be too detrimental, especially if access (bus) to the external flash card is fast enough.
As to the VRAM, with "only" 128 MB, it raises a few tricks, but no serious concern among developers. The PowerVR being particularly effective in terms of memory management and compression of textures, the impact on graphic quality securities should again be minimal.

Store owner (sic - Proprietary Storage?)
Another notable change: the disappearance of the 16 GB of embedded flash memory initially planned. The slot for SD card the first development kits gives way to a new version designed to accommodate the external memory, probably a solution close to the SD architecture, but including technology and security options owners. Initially at least, it will then move by Sony to buy its external memory.
This is strongly reminiscent of the policy has always been the mark with its memory cards on PS1 and PS2 mostly (Magicgate).


In the starting blocks
The developers are working hard to develop the first games console, aided by a development environment of unprecedented quality for a Sony machine. Our sources among developers welcome the manufacturer for the number and quality of its tools, its examples of routines and libraries, and especially for its multi-platform engine (PC/PS3/NGP) already fully functional.
They always complain that the quad-core processor, only three are accessible to programmers, the fourth being reserved for the kernel and other ancillary functions (security ...). However, they welcomed the Out-of-order speculative processor ARM, which can take the "initiative" to perform calculations in anticipation of the instructions provided by the code and is therefore particularly effective despite its low energy consumption.
All the definitive characteristics, as well as the entirety of the launch titles will be clearly revealed by Sony at the upcoming E3.

My French is very basic but I have made a few edits for where I think the machine translation has gone wrong.

Lots of interesting stuff here.

 

[Mahorfeus]

I'm not too worried about this.

I'm more worried about the device's nonexistent launch line-up - not a single game has been confirmed. If they want the thing to sell better than the 3DS right off the bat, they're going to have to make sure that some good games are available at launch.

 

[Marudas]

People legitimately think that this change is due to hackers? There are tons of reasons for Sony to try to compete with Nintendo's price point, and its not because "they can't afford to make it". We're talking about a company whose total assets measure over 10 trillion dollars. Yes, it hurts the company badly to take a loss like they did this year, but big companies like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have to make lots of mistakes like this before it kills their company.

Sony is likely just learning a lesson from their previous two console launches (the PS3 and the PSP), that the "better hardware, but twice as expensive" approach isn't always going to sell well. Someone likely considers getting the price point down to be a "safer" bet, or it'll probably just return more profit out the gate, because nobody at Sony wants to be the one to make the next accident.

Now, to be more objective to the topic at hand- none of any of this will matter if Sony can't get some good titles for their console. Third party and developer support is key to having this be a worthwhile console. The lack of internal HD on this device isn't crippling, but they need to make sure that whatever storage they add to the device is easy. If they go with the Duo sticks again, it'll be utterly disappointing. As for the lack of Ram and Vram...well, it might be a bit limiting, but games on handheld consoles aren't always about the graphics. Some of the simplest games have sold best on handhelds. Its all about what comes out on it.

 

[Treblaine]

People legitimately think that this change is due to hackers? There are tons of reasons for Sony to try to compete with Nintendo's price point, and its not because "they can't afford to make it". We're talking about a company whose total assets measure over 10 trillion dollars. Yes, it hurts the company badly to take a loss like they did this year, but big companies like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have to make lots of mistakes like this before it kills their company.

Sony is likely just learning a lesson from their previous two console launches (the PS3 and the PSP), that the "better hardware, but twice as expensive" approach isn't always going to sell well. Someone likely considers getting the price point down to be a "safer" bet, or it'll probably just return more profit out the gate, because nobody at Sony wants to be the one to make the next accident.

Now, to be more objective to the topic at hand- none of any of this will matter if Sony can't get some good titles for their console. Third party and developer support is key to having this be a worthwhile console. The lack of internal HD on this device isn't crippling, but they need to make sure that whatever storage they add to the device is easy. If they go with the Duo sticks again, it'll be utterly disappointing. As for the lack of Ram and Vram...well, it might be a bit limiting, but games on handheld consoles aren't always about the graphics. Some of the simplest games have sold best on handhelds. Its all about what comes out on it.

It's also pretty reasonable considering the PS3 console STILL only has 256mb of System memory, it would be excessive for the NGP to have TWICE as much.

It seems the initial idea of 512MB of system RAM was just "keeping up with the joneses" against Apple, all their latest iteration of hardware have had 512MB of system memory. In fact Apple owns a ridiculous amount of the market that makes flash memory, they can buy the stuff at bargain rate.

Honestly, Sony would be wise not to get into the memory race with Apple. They would have a hard time prevailing.

They need to focus on being a VERY GOOD and stable gaming platform, as the iPad and iPhones the goalposts are moved so often and the user base are never all on one hardware specification yet are not tech-savy enough for variable settings.

The greatest appeal of NGP are those dual analogue-sticks, they have led a revolution in gaming since they became popular in the early 2000's (really first appeared on PS1 in 1998) it allows for such great gamign opportunities that Apple will always stuggle with as ideologically they are obsessed with the simple soldi-state interface. No buttons, no joysticks. That is their weakness because gamers LOVE buttons and joysticks.

 

[D Moness]

Brilliant idea.

Let's downgrade our system to reduce the price so it'll sell more, instead of trying to improve the system and make it the better value.

so remind me of the ps3 . We will make it cheaper but we will cut backwards compatibility (because people said it doesn't need it ).

 

[beema]

Honestly it's not really their fault. I'm left feeling bad for Sony because the NGP was supposed to be big for them, but now they can't even afford to make it.

The thing is, I don't really know what I would do in this situation. For one thing, I would like to say just wait until they get their money back to start working on the NGP, because then they wouldn't have to cut all the power behind it, but then again the NGP could actually end up making them a lot of money...

I think they're seriously screwing the pooch here. Sure, they will take a big hit on the front-end investment, but I think it would really pay off in the end, and make them a lot of profit. Instead they are hedging their bets and releasing an inferior potentially lame duck product, which wont bring them as much recognition or sales (or who knows, it still might, but these specs are really f'ing depressing).

 

[Mahorfeus]

I'm not too worried about this.

I'm more worried about the device's nonexistent launch line-up - not a single game has been confirmed. If they want the thing to sell better than the 3DS right off the bat, they're going to have to make sure that some good games are available at launch.

Well, for first party they've got Uncharted and Wipeout. Like that?

Neither of which are confirmed for launch. I'd call them the Zelda and Starfox 3DS of the NGP. Heck, the device itself doesn't even have a release date, though that is understandable considering the circumstances.

 

[Zaik]

Let's hope this stays a rumor. I'm willing to pay more for it than the whole 3D nonsense.

 

[Treblaine]

Honestly it's not really their fault. I'm left feeling bad for Sony because the NGP was supposed to be big for them, but now they can't even afford to make it.

The thing is, I don't really know what I would do in this situation. For one thing, I would like to say just wait until they get their money back to start working on the NGP, because then they wouldn't have to cut all the power behind it, but then again the NGP could actually end up making them a lot of money...

I think they're seriously screwing the pooch here. Sure, they will take a big hit on the front-end investment, but I think it would really pay off in the end, and make them a lot of profit. Instead they are hedging their bets and releasing an inferior potentially lame duck product, which wont bring them as much recognition or sales (or who knows, it still might, but these specs are really f'ing depressing).

Hey, power isn't everything.

Even with 256mb it is as powerful as the PS3 in terms of memory. As powerful AS A PS3!!!

Look at the Nintendo DS, dominated to spite having processing power a whole order of magnitude lower than the PSP, but what it DID have going for it? controls.

DS not only had the touch-screen it had a far superior D-pad. The PSP d-pad looks good but feels like crap. You cannot do diagonal directions, you just can't. DS can.

Now is Sony's chance, and I think they have the right idea TWIN ANALOGUE STICKS! Not "nubs" actual sticks, that is HUGE, every FPS game that is either being made for or ported to handhelds the NGP is going to get top billing. CoD in your pocket! Think about that.

That's down to controls.

Handhelds have NEVER been won on horsepower, they have been won on usability.

 

[ninja51]

...So the thing that made this superior to the 3DS... is gone? You cant compete in the same market as the 3DS Sony, thats stupid, anyone in the world could tell you thats stupid. Nintendo caters to certain fans, you cater to another group. Please that other group, because Nintendo already owns the the former.

 

[weirdee]

Well, considering that people are already railing against Nintendo for making the 3DS more expensive despite it having greater graphical capabilities, they probably think that they won't fare too well in that environment.

edit: yeah, the second stick will probably make the difference

 

[Treblaine]

...So the thing that made this superior to the 3DS... is gone? You cant compete in the same market as the 3DS Sony, thats stupid, anyone in the world could tell you thats stupid. Nintendo caters to certain fans, you cater to another group. Please that other group, because Nintendo already owns the the former.

Oh sorry, now it is only AS CAPABLE as the Playstation 3, therefore it has lost ALL advantage over the 3DS.

Bollocks.

NGP was foolish to ever initially aim for such high system RAM, double what the PS3 has right now.

The NGP still has well over 4x the CPU power, 2x the system RAM and utterly incomparable graphics dominance over the Nintendo 3DS and a far better sized screen not to mention the dual analogue stick controls.

Jee-sus. This is who companies are so afraid to back down even in the most moderate way as uninformed punters loudly assume they are sacrificing EVERYTHING and crippling it to some Dreamcast quality device.

You are entitled to you opinion but do not act like yours is an informed opinion.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

I think they're seriously screwing the pooch here. Sure, they will take a big hit on the front-end investment, but I think it would really pay off in the end, and make them a lot of profit. Instead they are hedging their bets and releasing an inferior potentially lame duck product, which wont bring them as much recognition or sales (or who knows, it still might, but these specs are really f'ing depressing).

Well they're probably scared from the PSP-Go. Granted, it was a horrible idea in the first place just like cutting the memory of the NGP in half, but when you lose that much money on a product and you got your ass destroyed by a bunch of hackers which will cost them millions (I can't find the number they predicted, but it was a very large number and they weren't even taking into account all the lawsuits they'll probably run in to), it makes a lot of sense for them to be cautious. I certainly would, especially after a lot of people don't trust them anymore.

 

[beema]

Well they're probably scared from the PSP-Go.

I thought the Go failed because of terrible software/game support?

 

[ninja51]

...So the thing that made this superior to the 3DS... is gone? You cant compete in the same market as the 3DS Sony, thats stupid, anyone in the world could tell you thats stupid. Nintendo caters to certain fans, you cater to another group. Please that other group, because Nintendo already owns the the former.

Oh sorry, now it is only AS CAPABLE as the Playstation 3, therefore it has lost ALL advantage over the 3DS.

Bollocks.

NGP was foolish to ever initially aim for such high system RAM, double what the PS3 has right now.

The NGP still has well over 4x the CPU power, 2x the system RAM and utterly incomparable graphics dominance over the Nintendo 3DS and a far better sized screen not to mention the dual analogue stick controls.

Jee-sus. This is who companies are so afraid to back down even in the most moderate way as uninformed punters loudly assume they are sacrificing EVERYTHING and crippling it to some Dreamcast quality device.

You are entitled to you opinion but do not act like yours is an informed opinion.

Oh contrare monfrare! Its a roughly informed opinion, I dont care about either device, and my knowledge of both is considerably lacking. I wasnt aware the ram their cutting down to is actually better than the 3DS by a sizeable margine, thank you for informing me. What would the world do without your fanboyish rants and the knowledge that analogue stick controls are what really set the NGP ahead of the 3DS. Thank you mysterious fanboy!

 

[Treblaine]

...So the thing that made this superior to the 3DS... is gone? You cant compete in the same market as the 3DS Sony, thats stupid, anyone in the world could tell you thats stupid. Nintendo caters to certain fans, you cater to another group. Please that other group, because Nintendo already owns the the former.

Oh sorry, now it is only AS CAPABLE as the Playstation 3, therefore it has lost ALL advantage over the 3DS.

Bollocks.

NGP was foolish to ever initially aim for such high system RAM, double what the PS3 has right now.

The NGP still has well over 4x the CPU power, 2x the system RAM and utterly incomparable graphics dominance over the Nintendo 3DS and a far better sized screen not to mention the dual analogue stick controls.

Jee-sus. This is who companies are so afraid to back down even in the most moderate way as uninformed punters loudly assume they are sacrificing EVERYTHING and crippling it to some Dreamcast quality device.

You are entitled to you opinion but do not act like yours is an informed opinion.

Oh contrare monfrare! Its a roughly informed opinion, I dont care about either device, and my knowledge of both is considerably lacking. I wasnt aware the ram their cutting down to is actually better than the 3DS by a sizeable margine, thank you for informing me.

What would the world do without your fanboyish rants and the knowledge that analogue stick controls are what really set the NGP ahead of the 3DS. Thank you mysterious fanboy!

On balance between optimistic fanboys armed with truth and reason against the cynical scaremongering punters armed with misunderstanding and conjecture, I know where we would be without either.

I wouldn't say I'm a Sony fanboy, I certainly wouldn't buy their MP3 players, and favoured the NDS over PSP, I an a fanboy of the best product on the market; what can add the most to gaming.

3DS is NOT that, Nintendo has banked way too much on 3D while the controls are now hopelessly outclassed.

 

[Treblaine]

I think they're seriously screwing the pooch here. Sure, they will take a big hit on the front-end investment, but I think it would really pay off in the end, and make them a lot of profit. Instead they are hedging their bets and releasing an inferior potentially lame duck product, which wont bring them as much recognition or sales (or who knows, it still might, but these specs are really f'ing depressing).

Well they're probably scared from the PSP-Go. Granted, it was a horrible idea in the first place just like cutting the memory of the NGP in half, but when you lose that much money on a product and you got your ass destroyed by a bunch of hackers which will cost them millions (I can't find the number they predicted, but it was a very large number and they weren't even taking into account all the lawsuits they'll probably run in to), it makes a lot of sense for them to be cautious. I certainly would, especially after a lot of people don't trust them anymore.

What Sony needs to do to stave off hackers is actually make hacking their system because the benefits do not significantly outweight the negatives.

Positives:
-Software, including open source programs, if Sony allows a certain level of "apps" then that will swipe out a huge chunk of jailbreakers as they jailbreak for homebrew, THEN resort to piracy.
-Dynamic pricing. One thing that turns people to piracy is utterly inflexible pricing, every game retailing for $50 will sap people's interest. LEARN FROM VALVE, offer sales even if only for a 24 hour period or allow people to pay for games in instalments or even them them rent digital games.
-Have a network that people WANT to be plugged into and would refrain from jailbreaking, LOAD if with great free and unique features that would be far too hard for jail-breakers to replicate.
-


Negatives to avoid:
-DRM bullshit. Make the thing region free WITHOUT jailbreak. Yes Sony can put region locking but don't embed it so deep that the only way around is destroying the entire firmware, allow a work around like GoG.com does with Witcher 2.
-Broken promises: EULA is irrelevant to advertising, you market a product with Linux you better keep it as people will want it, take it away and they will take it back!
-Company rivalry: face it, Micrsoft does NOT have a serious stake in the handheld market, there is absolutely nothing wrong with allowing Microsoft licensed games on the new NGP. If they want to port Halo or Gears of War to NGP, PLEASE LET THEM!
-Constant stream of slow and meaningless updates: seriously, one reason people avoid jailbreaking is a firmware update so often with new games released but with PS3 even the legit version has that!!! GRRR!