Rumor: Sony Downgrading NGP Tech to Compete with 3DS Pricing
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
This makes me chuckle.
Oh Sony, do continue to flipflop on your company's direction.
You marketed the NGP towards the "High-tech/Adult Gamer" crowd with a derivative ad campaign against Nintendo, and now you're doubling back on the tech bit.
Though in all seriousness, this probably isn't a bad idea for Sony...as long as their system actually has decent GAMES on it, rather than a bunch of half-assed PS2 ports.
Oh Sony, do continue to flipflop on your company's direction.
You marketed the NGP towards the "High-tech/Adult Gamer" crowd with a derivative ad campaign against Nintendo, and now you're doubling back on the tech bit.
Though in all seriousness, this probably isn't a bad idea for Sony...as long as their system actually has decent GAMES on it, rather than a bunch of half-assed PS2 ports.
Certain countries won't do business with Sony if they don't abide by Region Lock. The problem lies in deeper economics; to prevent the exploitation of arbitrage by retail (or any other third party). Simply put: if you put out the same product at two different prices within the same reach of the market, one will be exploited by arbitrage. Region locks are, in theory, supposed to mitigate that.Treblaine said:
In practice, they do little more than annoy the customer, but that's how it is.
It's quite sad how little actual retribution Sony faced for blatantly cheating on their promises. I guess those in power saw the financial benefits as being more important than those of the rights of the consumer.
Wouldn't happen. Those IPs only have value to Microsoft in their overblown markets because they are exclusive.
This must be the memo the Sony execs send out on a daily basis:
"Remember: Every one of your customers is a criminal waiting to happen. Keep them in the pen. Limit or remove any features that would give them even an ounce of freedom. Put it in the EULA; those things are pretty much Legal 'Word of God' now anyway."
I really can't blame you having such an uninformed conclusion, Sony has AGAIN tripped over their own feet into another PR embarrassment. I swear that company is full of nothing but engineers (and lawyers) this memory-cut is actually an extremely sound engineering and business decision but the way Sony has let this info come out it seems to be in the worst possible way.Atmos Duality said:
There are several very good reasons to go with 256MB of system RAM to spite how piddly that seems to PC gamers.
(1) 256MB is twice as much as 3DS
So Sony are conceding nothing to the other handheld gaming device. A 4x memory would be overkill considering all the other tech that the NGP has.
(2) 256MB is the same amount of system-memory as in the PS3
Sony are smart to emphasis the ease of porting from PS3 to NGP, doubling system memory between them would be overkill. After all, PS3 was able to create wonderfully complex worlds with games like Killzone 3 and Uncharted 2.
(3) iPad with 512MB of RAM underperforms
That seems to be the initial motivator for 512MB of RAM as the iPad 2 shipped with 512MB of RAM, but it has since been revealed this is overkill. iPad under-performs because its memory is just not fast enough to really use that capacity.
(4) Apple has economy-of-scale advantages in QUANTITY of flash memory
Another reason not to get into a RAM "arms race" with Apple is Apple has the advantage in such a war, they own so much infrastructure. Apple buys cheap/slow memory in bulk. Sony needs to go the other route and buy the fastest RAM they can afford, and in Games environment virtualising SPEED is what matters. Because developers will always want to add more, the game becomes how quick you can swap stuff in and out.
If SOny had gotten on top of this before the Story:
"NGP hobbled by memoery CUT IN HALF"
Sony shoudl have gone with:
"Final NGP specs revealed, same System memory as PS3.. in your hand!"
I wouldn't call it entirely uninformed; historically, Nintendo gets the systems into the hands of its market (mostly children, granted) because it's the cheaper alternative, and they USUALLY have some form of strong first party launch titles (strangely absent from the 3DS; this is the first time a Nintendo handheld had a launch this abysmally weak).Treblaine said:
Sony is trying the "Tit-for-tat" strategy at last with Nintendo.
If they bid for lower, cheaper tech, they butt heads with Nintendo. They bid higher, they have to compete with Steve Jobs' market (at least in perception).
As you note later, I also think they should go with high-performance gaming components. They only place where this could bite them on the ass is with high-end web-applications, which tend to require the opposite in terms of performance (quantity over quality hardware) requirements.
Wouldn't matter to me anyway; the day I start using an NGP as my main web browser is the day I get myself sectioned.
Do not assume that I don't know what one can do with limited hardware. I've seen some truly impressive programming and presentation feats on both the PSP and DS.
Agreed on principle. Hopefully, as you said earlier, Sony will keep it that way.
I'm guessing that building in a lower clock for the iPad2's RAM was for battery/energy saving purposes in addition to the economic/business/cheapness. Either that, or a weak justification for using cheaper RAM on what is supposed to be a higher-quality product (if I am to believe the legion of Apple fans).
And they act so scornful when I tell them that Steve Jobs' products are grossly overpriced based on their performance specs...
I'll be watching the NGP, but I definitely will NOT be buying one unless it truly impresses me (being an unreasonable asshole, I doubt that will happen). I'm still unhappy with my PSP's horrid, PAINFUL controls for 3D titles and the general level of bullshit that Sony demands just so I can use their hardware.
Well I think the move to dual-analogue-sticks may not be very marketable but I think it is exactly what is needed to make 3D games controllable on the move.Atmos Duality said:
I mean there has YET to be a portable handheld with even a single REAL analogue stick. A real analogue thumbstick is completely different from an analogue nub in terms of ergonomics, you are capable of so much better speed and precision and the rear-touchpad I can only imagine can add to the precision capabilities like fine-aiming with a sniper weapon.
Sony isn't the only Japanese company that obsessively controls their hardware, take a look as nintendo bricking fiasco.
I just wish Microsoft would get into this business. Basically just take their Xbox 360 controller, stick a screen on it, and shove an Xbox Original inside and have it download games from XBLA.
Since when? Since about 1999 I guess.OutrageousEmu said:
Companies have to be pro-active about protecting the reputation of their products, that means stamping out these rumours before they spread too far. This is the world of PR and you cannot wait till E3 to correct this.
Sony needs to be better at keeping secrets and more effective at handling blown secrets.
Inevitably Nintendo will spin this misconception as weakness on Sony's part and leave the flase impression that their system is now more or less as powerful. Likely try to insinuate something like "anyone who has been holding off on getting a 3DS in anticipation for NGP, well forget about NGP Sony has been FORCED to cut the features now we are equal but 3DS is here right now"
OutrageousEmu said:
Noooo!
Don't sue, be NICE! Take a leaf of of Apple's book on PR. Holy fuck apple's PR has quite literally elevated them to the level of religious worship.
All Sony needs to do is to integrate Public-Perceptions right into their business strategy, they need to realise that to sell their stuff to customers they have to leave the right impression with them.
You ever had a teacher tell you when writing your CV "really SELL yourself" that's what Sony needs to do, the NGP is a great device they need to really trumpet that what they are doing is going to be huge, special and absolutley game changing.
Nintendo seems to be able to do that, look at their 3DS adverts.
Sony, much less so.
I can only imagine how hard this is for Sony, a Japanese company where most of the staff there may have very little grasp of the media-fuelled western rumour mill, how important it is to leave a good impression. Sony are trying but they seem to always fumble the execution, as good as they do, Microsoft and Apple just seem to be able to raise the bar higher above their head.
And I'm saying the impressions are starting already.OutrageousEmu said:
Sony is already running ads on Youtube advertising the NGP
http://www.youtube.com/user/yourwholeworld?v=oUqD8zJJCZ0&feature=pyv&ad=5763600389&kw=3ds
I've seen signs advertising pre-orders for NGP, this product IS in the public consciousness and Sony is letting it's reputation get dragged through the mud. They can't wait till E3, literally hours count on stories like these. Otherwise NGP will be tainted with disappointment rather than anticipation.
This seems to be a common problem with Sony, they take far to long to react to things when they go wrong.
Firstly, this isn't about the law, this is about fucking around your customers and going: "neener neern neee neeeer, we have the law on our side". It bad PR.OutrageousEmu said:
Have you ever tried reading one of the Playstation 3 EULA's? It's impossible, the thing is so long and written in such convoluted legal terms I need to spend $1000 on a lawyer to make any sense of it. Which might me OK if it was jsut once but ALL THE TIME there is a new EULA with every new update.
But let's say I'm a lawyer and I love reading long ponderous legal documents on a HDTV screen every time play a new game and determine what features will be removed.
If I don't accept the new firmware then I lose all these features:
-buy games on PSN
-Updates for games
-DLC
-Play any newly released games
-play any online components
It's basically a big fuck-you from the advert "it only does everything".
Sony has got to learn to stop pissing their users off. Remember, the PS3 went unhacked for 5 years, that is extraordinary partly because most of the hacking desire was released through the supported Linux install.
This is not about morality or legality, this is strategic. Sony made a lot of enemies needlessly when they had them placated with their Linux install capability.
No. "getting rid of Linux" was NOT good PR.OutrageousEmu said:
The PS3 redesign was good PR but linux-removal was NOT an essential part of that. Just because they happened at the same time you cannot conflate Linux-removal with the new design that was cheaper, cooler and sleeker which was the whole appeal.
And even if the new PS3 Slim was physically limited from Linux-installs, there is NO REASON to retroactively apply that to all consoles that people had already bought. A PERFECT precedent for this is the early run Playstation 3 that can play PS2 game by software emulation, that feature has not been sabotaged on old-consoles by new-firmware even though later hardware versions were physically unable to be backwards compatible.
Linux absolutely did not help the PS3 to retail at $299.
PS3 price cut drop was from:
-new manufacturing line, more efficient on larger scale
-cheaper blu-ray drive (Originally $200)
-Moore's law of microprocessors; smaller, cheaper, etc.
Linux install option was 100% software. All the Sony engineers had to do was NOT remove several lines of code that allowed the Linux install. It cost nothing to leave it in, it probably cost something to tell a coder to lock it out.
Now remember I PERSONALLY do not care about Linux on PS3.
What I have said from the beginning is that I know many other people DO care! They bought a PS3 when it was $500-$600 and for thousands of tech heads the linux install with Cell-processor at your disposal was a HUGE selling point. That is Linux AND games/PSN. Not $600 for either Linux OR Games. That is a bait and switch.
Leaving Linux option WOULD NOT CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS!
Especially considering the Linux option was removed at precisely the time when the PS3 was finally breaking even!
So if Sony was worried about someone like the Air Force buying a thousand PS3s without ever buying any games/content for them, that may have been a problem in 2007 but not in 2009. It would have been a huge benefit as even merely breaking even a high turnover is good for business.
Pissing off a minority is not a good idea. Especially when that minority is hundreds of thousands of very competent hackers, that is making enemies with the wrong group of people.
Back to my point about Linux was that is was a safety-valve for hackers' curiosity, they naturally want to tinker with things and openly publish their findings, Linux was a release and also a dead end, it kept them satisfied for almost half a decade. In fact it fostered a cottage industry of people who used their PS3 for gaming and linux. But cutting the linux support out from under them, without even a grandfather clause for those with linux already installed. Well that left thousands of people who:
-expected linux AND games on their PS3
-Felt betrayed
-Knew their way around PS3 architecture
-wanted to get back in.
And low an behold, PS3 got hacked shortly after by multiple different groups. Many did it to get Linux back, but now the system was WIDE open to pirate games and access the soft underbelly of their network.
That's a bullshit because when the user boots up Linux OS on PS3 they cannot connect to PSN... AT ALL.OutrageousEmu said:
"a machine natively running the Ps3's original OS to communicate with a machine running Linux was down to said redundant capability"
They NEVER had to communicate with each other. PS3 consoles running Linux OS were no more a problem for Sony than Macbooks running Mac OS.
Even if at some level Linux did plug into PSN, the proportional response is to simply cut the cord and an have Linux Boots stand without connecting to Sony and other Playstation consoles. Then when they reset but boot the normal Playstation OS then Linux is irrelevant, it's in a different partition.
"removing the redudnant capability that allowed them to lower the price. Your factors explain how the price got down to $350."
No way does removing a few lines of code to allow Linux installs save $50 per console. Absolutely. No. Way.
"Sony is under no obligation, either ferom a legal or ethical standpoint, to provide PsN to you if you are causing a problem."
Exactly, when you BOOT Linux then you cannot connect to PSN. You can install Linux and then their boot the official Playstation OS or the Linux OS.