Sacrificing Fun For Immersion

[squid5580]

I expect to get some flaming because I am about to put down the flavor of the week. Mainly Batman A.A. and a problem I am having with it. Don't get me wrong I think the game is good. It just fails to achieve greatness. And the reason it it doesn't achieve greatness is because of the immersion.

The game really makes you feel like you are in control of Batman. When you fight a group of thugs and counter kicks and punches with such fluidity just like Batman would it feels...odd. It almost feels like you are playing a QTE without the big "press x not to die" flashing on the screen. Instead it is replaced with some kind of Spidey sense flashing above the baddies head seconds before they strike. And at the same time if they went with a regular combat system it would be impossible to make it look so fluid. Which would be more fun and less immersive. So what are your thoughts?

 

[Cargando]

I think it's fair enough, I still prefer fun (eg. shooting guards in the nuts on Fable 2) to immersion (the fights in COD 4). But I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Jedamethis]

You can sum up my opinion with this:

"Awesome! I really feel like I am this boring guy doing all this boring stuff! I'm bored...."

 

[Kollega]

Immersion can constitute a fun if it is done really,really well. Otherwise,it's bad move.

 

[Space Spoons]

I think in some cases, immersion can actually contribute to the fun factor of a game. I felt that way about Batman; it really does put you in a position to feel like you're Batman, at the cost of traditional fight controls. It never felt to me like I was missing out on anything, though. The free flowing combat system seemed to fit the environment really well, and if you're playing on the hardest difficulty, the mode where the "spidey-sense" stops appearing over enemy heads, it can actually get pretty challenging.

On the other side of the coin, it's entirely possible for immersion to ruin the fun of a game. Hyper-realistic shooting games where you lose the ability to walk if you're shot in the leg, racing games that require you to monitor your car's heat levels... Stuff like that really kills it for me.

 

[TheAmazingTGIF]

Like Fallout 3?

 

[squid5580]

Like Fallout 3?

I am sorry but can you elaborate on that please.

 

[Fbuh]

I think it's fair enough, I still prefer fun (eg. shooting guards in the nuts on Fable 2) to immersion (the fights in COD 4). But I can see where you're coming from.

Fable 2, despite the warnings I received on it, is actually pretty fun. Shooting the nuts of people is more or less the biggest reason I am still playing it my fourth straight time through.

 

[esperandote]

I dont agree with several points previously stated

1 i dont see of fun can be sacrified for immersion
2 immersion =/= realism
3 I havent played B:AA but that flashin thing you mention sounds just like a prompt in a different form
4 ... i feel there's one more thing but i cant exactly put my finger on it.

 

[TheAmazingTGIF]

Like Fallout 3?

I am sorry but can you elaborate on that please.

The whole birthing thing. That was too much immersion for me, thanks.
I understand that nukes can make certain areas impassible, but getting out of Gray Ditch was hell. Finding certain areas by going through the convoluted subway systems got real boring, real fast.
Oh and all of the colors consisted of: mud-shit brown and dystopia grey.

 

[Ninjasander]

Like Fallout 3?

The realism in Fallout 3 actually worked, except that you had to repair you're weapon every bloody minute.

 

[jonnopon3000]

I expect to get some flaming because I am about to put down the flavor of the week. Mainly Batman A.A. and a problem I am having with it. Don't get me wrong I think the game is good. It just fails to achieve greatness. And the reason it it doesn't achieve greatness is because of the immersion.

The game really makes you feel like you are in control of Batman. When you fight a group of thugs and counter kicks and punches with such fluidity just like Batman would it feels...odd. It almost feels like you are playing a QTE without the big "press x not to die" flashing on the screen. Instead it is replaced with some kind of Spidey sense flashing above the baddies head seconds before they strike. And at the same time if they went with a regular combat system it would be impossible to make it look so fluid. Which would be more fun and less immersive. So what are your thoughts?

I believe both are possible.

For example. Bioshock is immense fun, but while playing it I forget I am not the plasmid-wielding awesome guy. The game is awesome.

 

[Dufaunce]

Personnaly it takes a good story to make a game worth playing and fun for me. So in my case the immersion does = fun.

Depends on personal preference i suppose.

 

[Hybridwolf]

Immersion can work with fun and vice versa, but I think the two things can be seperated. When I play Gears 2, I want to watch a story play out and be part of it. When I play Mercs 2 I don't give a toss about the story, I want to blow stuff up. So you can seperate the two, which is a shame because they do work, but only if your careful.

When I played dead rising I loved the fact that the story depended on if you did certain actions. If you ignored the story you could carry on anyway, if you killed all the survivors, you wouldn't be penalised for it. But as immersive as it was, it was also fun. The methods of killing ranged from simplistic beat downs to batshit crazy (Jack hammer?). Thats my example of immersion and fun working together, just a shame the game often let both factors down.

 

[dekkarax]

I don't think fun in games should ever be sacrificed; that's the whole purpose of games.

 

[TPiddy]

I found that Batman broke this realism in multiple settings, such as that one scene where the 3 guys are all facing one direction and you can silently take down all 3 of them without any of them even looking in their buddies' direction. It's like they were waiting for you to take them down.

Oh, and who puts that many Gargoyles indoors? For what? They are pretty much there for you to hang people off of.

Immersion doesn't have to mean realism. Bioshock did a pretty good job of immersing you in it's environment, but it's completely a realm of fantasy. Good games can do both.

It depends on the style of game as well, but a lot of games sacrifice fun for immersion. Yahtzee makes this point when comparing GTA IV to Saints Row 2. Sure it's more realistic to have a woman tumble over your car and painfully land on the sidewalk, but it's more fun to hit someone so high into the air with your car that you can try to catch them on the hood before they hit the ground .

 

[DeadlyYellow]

The two seem to go hand in hand with me. If something is fun, I'm usually immersed doing it.

 

[Abedeus]

Like Fallout 3?

The realism in Fallout 3 actually worked, except that you had to repair you're weapon every bloody minute.

I'm a weapon?

But then again, Fallout 3 felt a bit too immersive. I mean, I was a bit freaked out to travel at night. Or in a suspicious school. Or in the store full of raiders unaware of my presence.

 

[TPiddy]

When I played dead rising I loved the fact that the story depended on if you did certain actions. If you ignored the story you could carry on anyway, if you killed all the survivors, you wouldn't be penalised for it. But as immersive as it was, it was also fun. The methods of killing ranged from simplistic beat downs to batshit crazy (Jack hammer?). Thats my example of immersion and fun working together, just a shame the game often let both factors down.

I was also a fan of dead rising.... it did offer some realism as you had to go to certain parts of the mall to get food and health, and other parts for the better weapons like hardware stores and gun shops. Then it got a little silly as there had to be an antique weapon store.... but you could do fun and crazy things like put fake hats on the zombies and throw furniture down the stairs. I didn't like how golf clubs and hockey sticks had pucks and balls as ammunition, as if I were going to grab a golf club I would hit the zombie with it, not launch a golf ball at him.

I also liked having the ability to rescue some of the survivors because they could help you. I remember getting about 6 survivors at one point and giving them all guns. I just walked around putting hats on zombies while they shot everything in sight.

It was a good first attempt and a solid example of a game that could combine realism with fun. Now they need to fix the controls and tone down the difficulty level a little.

 

[DrunkWithPower]

I had no problem falling into immersion with B:AA, I got taken out of it though because of

Spoiler

the part where the game "screws up" because of the scarecrows toxin

other than that, I had no problem... but I'm also a huge Batman fanboy by definition.