I know. I used to be in the "hardcore" crowd.Woodsey said:
Though I can't picture myself enjoying this game all that much; lag and griefing would not blend well at all with any sort of progress-centric gameplay.
Salem Dev: MMOs Without Permadeath Aren't Proper Games
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
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Though I can't picture myself enjoying this game all that much; lag and griefing would not blend well at all with any sort of progress-centric gameplay.
I'll do you a deal, Mr Johannessen. You make a game with zero bugs and zero latency, and I'll play games with no saves. I'll also resist pointing out that we have this already - it's called 'life'.
The problem with even the Ironman style gaming is that it only takes one screwup by the developer and your effort is gone through no fault of your own. It's not about accepting consequences - the game & developer has to be perfect, because there's no margin for error.
Actually I'd say looking at the likes of DayZ it's had the exact opposite effect for a lot of players than the intended one. It's cheapened death, made effort meaningless; people value nothing because it could all vanish in the blink of an eye. Why care about anything when it might all go tomorrow? (Note, I am not ascribing this to all DayZ players, but I've seen plenty of it, especially if they're not very good at it and die a lot).
Why care about developing a character, putting thought into a name, making friends, building anything - it's all going the moment you die. It encourages nihilism in my view. Even EVE preserves your basic character development despite the ability to lose pretty much everything else. Characters online count for more than mere 'save points'.
Some may find this fun, which case I wish them & Mr Johannessen luck, but it's not for me. I'd rather do something I consider worthwhile & meaningful.
The problem with even the Ironman style gaming is that it only takes one screwup by the developer and your effort is gone through no fault of your own. It's not about accepting consequences - the game & developer has to be perfect, because there's no margin for error.
Actually I'd say looking at the likes of DayZ it's had the exact opposite effect for a lot of players than the intended one. It's cheapened death, made effort meaningless; people value nothing because it could all vanish in the blink of an eye. Why care about anything when it might all go tomorrow? (Note, I am not ascribing this to all DayZ players, but I've seen plenty of it, especially if they're not very good at it and die a lot).
Why care about developing a character, putting thought into a name, making friends, building anything - it's all going the moment you die. It encourages nihilism in my view. Even EVE preserves your basic character development despite the ability to lose pretty much everything else. Characters online count for more than mere 'save points'.
Some may find this fun, which case I wish them & Mr Johannessen luck, but it's not for me. I'd rather do something I consider worthwhile & meaningful.
I would state a proper point here, but there are so many in this same thread that it would be basically useless, as many said, there would't be too many people playing a game that would make you lose everything after you die if you had to spend a long time with your character, for rogur-likes the perma death is ok, quick short games, or longer but still quite fast. Otherwise too many people would get annoyed and quit at the first or second death.
permadeath: yeah this can work, in quite a few situations really, hardcore modes can be really exciting, and TBOI taught me that if the game isn't actually that long, permadeath is the best option. however it can quickly become frustrating if the game is several hours long, is a ***** to play and then you die, and takes you ages to get back to where you were.
Always on PvP: again, can work pretty well. personally if the option is there i always play on a PvP server. gankers annoy the hell out of me and i usually don't do it myself, but world PvP can be hugely fun, especially when it becomes huge crowds of people just fighting to the death. in these cases a LONGER respawn time should be in place, as being able to instantly revive takes the joy out of getting a kill in my eyes.
permadeath with always on PvP: well i hope they designed the starting zones well, because about 90% of players won't leave the fucking place. i get pissed off if i lose 2 hours worth of time in gaming, about 15 minutes of work and i'll be fuming, but putting tens to hundreds of hours into a character (several of my WoW characters are over 20 days of game time) and it being lost forever... fuck that shit
Always on PvP: again, can work pretty well. personally if the option is there i always play on a PvP server. gankers annoy the hell out of me and i usually don't do it myself, but world PvP can be hugely fun, especially when it becomes huge crowds of people just fighting to the death. in these cases a LONGER respawn time should be in place, as being able to instantly revive takes the joy out of getting a kill in my eyes.
permadeath with always on PvP: well i hope they designed the starting zones well, because about 90% of players won't leave the fucking place. i get pissed off if i lose 2 hours worth of time in gaming, about 15 minutes of work and i'll be fuming, but putting tens to hundreds of hours into a character (several of my WoW characters are over 20 days of game time) and it being lost forever... fuck that shit
Permadeth in MMOS used to work. in fact there were whole guilds forming dedicating their life to attack people who attack others randomly to make their characters dissapear and disable them from doing that.
if your PVPing you must loose something. else its pointless. the games where you will "never drop your armor" are the worst games. your pvping, you may not have permadeath, but you certainly ahve to loose what your carrying and be donwgraded a level or two. you lost and you get punished for that.
if your PVPing you must loose something. else its pointless. the games where you will "never drop your armor" are the worst games. your pvping, you may not have permadeath, but you certainly ahve to loose what your carrying and be donwgraded a level or two. you lost and you get punished for that.
Thats not hard. i usually save because i dont have time to complete the game in one sitting, but i finished games like Stalker andm any shooters without dieing once.AdmiralCheez said: