San Francisco considering banning circumcision

[Smooth Operator]

Banning old barbaric rituals, I can already feel the hate.

It should be prohibited for children, as should the teaching of religion, adults can go running around in ignorance and cut themselves however it pleases them tho.

 

[IAmWright777]

For a so-called "land of the free", America doesn't like giving people choices.

That might be true, but its not really a choice if something is forced on you before you can even speak.

You have a point there. As a person who was circumcised; however, I don't remember having any problems with it. It's not like I grew up remembering that pain from the procedure.

 

[GothmogII]

For a so-called "land of the free", America doesn't like giving people choices.

That might be true, but its not really a choice if something is forced on you before you can even speak.

You have a point there. As a person who was circumcised; however, I don't remember having any problems with it. It's not like I grew up remembering that pain from the procedure.

I would imagine you'd say the same had you a toe or a finger cut off. People can adapt readily to adversity given time, if you've been in a wheelchair or deaf your whole life you'd of course feel like it had always been the case. That doesn't make it right to inflict on someone in the first place if you in a position of authority are given such a choice. :/

Then again, it's a matter of degrees: I'd agree that parents need to raise their children, including teaching them how they want them to be taught. Some people would draw the line at 'teach them to be a good person' and consider bringing them up in a faith an abuse of the parental position, others are perfectly fine with it. It all depends on where you sit on that scale. For me, I'm of the position that circumcision is unnecessary until it's necessary, and to me this means: a directly life threatening condition that necessitates the removal of the foreskin. Because otherwise it makes about as much sense as removing the earlobe or pinky toe. -_- Because you know, that too would stop infection of the earlobe and pinky toe. *rollseyes*

 

[Cakes]

One of the risks involves the foreskin growing abnormally and if it does can cause alot of health risks.

If you're going to have a child circumcised over concerns like this, you may as well get that appendix out while you're at it.

Removing appendix = very complex and costly operation that carries significant risk of complications or death. While the actual risk of appendicitis is very very low, the problems with a perforated abdomen in childhood are great.

Circumcision = the most basic medical procedure with minuscule risk.

Seriously, the people who comment on medical issues should at least get a basic understanding of medicine.

Foreskin complications are common enough to warrant cutting it off at birth as a precaution?

 

[Thanato5]

IMO it is a barbaric tradition that should have been outlawed years ago.
Western civ makes plenty noise about circumcision on women but forget about the whole practice being pretty alive today on men.
Don't get me wrong it is worse for women but the essence is the same. it was put in place by religious people with pseudo science and to stop guys playing single player when they become teenagers and reducing sexual enjoyment.
good on SF, I hope they succeed and that the rest of the world catches on.

 

[Kingsnake661]

Hehe. It's easy to take the freedoms you don't agree with away from the people you don't agree with because it doesn't effect you atm, but, one day, they'll be after a freedom you do care about and you'll be screwed. Don't say you haven't been warned when the time comes.

 

[Thanato5]

"Foreskin complications are common enough to warrant cutting it off at birth as a precaution?

your appendix isn't being yanked out for the same reason is it? nor are tonsils or your nails etc. all of which are known to cause complications for some people at some point.
If it is giving problem then it can be taken off, until then stay off it.

 

[Aurgelmir]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42784426/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/?GT1=43001

What do you guys/gals think of this? Should circumcision be outlawed or should it stay because it is a religious practice?

It's a religious practice and it helps to prevent keep that part of the body clean from potential problems. San Francisco can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Also if I have a son I intend on having him circumcised. Got a problem with it? It's my damn kid and I won't have him getting a disease I could have prevented him from having. If he has problems with it he can talk to me about it when he grows up.

What is he going to talk about when it's irreversible? You're violating a child's rights. This isn't something like cutting their hair when they don't want it. If you don't want your child to contract an STD, then teach them about safe sex, not cutting off a piece of their genitals. Plus, circumcision doesn't prevent anything, it just lowers the chances of them catching it by a small amount.

It prevents alot of things actually. Like I said my kid and my decision.

Wouldn't it be much more ethical to let the child decide for himself when he has the sufficient metal capacity, rather than force something on him that he may hate for the rest of his life?

Also, as far as I know, circumcision has no immediate medical benefits, so could you educate me on this, maybe PM me some links?

Would you honestly believe me if I did? Also it is highly painful if its done at an older age. I had it done to me when I was really young so I wasn't able to remember and I don't feel that I was abused or anything like that. Also it's not STDs that it prevents although I wish it did.

If its painful why force it on a child? At least in adulthood pain killers can be used. The baby can't take painkillers, and is hyper sensitive.

At that age unless you have some sort of super-memory to remember literally everything that has ever happened to you then you aren't going to remember it.

One of the risks involves the foreskin growing abnormally and if it does can cause alot of health risks.

As an adult your foreskin isn't going to grow so if you leave it as an adult some harm can already have been done but if you take care of it at a very early age then there is no harm.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=416_1218124584

Can't load the video and its been proven they're not the most reliable of sources. I'm sorry I'd rather trust numerous doctors and pediatricians.

Penn And Teller actually does a lot of research, but sure a satirical program can't be taken 100% serious.

To bad you can't load the video because the beginning of it speaks for itself in how horrible the practice of circumcision really is.

Besides not all doctors and pediatricians believe circumcision is needed, or medically proven to be beneficial. I would say most doctors and pediatricians probably do not think it has any value at all. If it was proven to have major health benefits more countries would do it, and a larger amount of the worlds population would have been circumcises. (Today about 02% of the worlds male population are cut)

 

[tzimize]

At that age unless you have some sort of super-memory to remember literally everything that has ever happened to you then you aren't going to remember it.

So just because they cant remember it its alright? Is it also alright to molest them, or hit them? They cant remember it.../facepalm.

Its a little bit different thank you and thats taking it out of context. If hitting my child spared them the chance of getting a disease later in life then thats one thing but molesting or hitting a child is far different than a medical procedure administered by a qualified physician.

Of course it is different, but there is NO reason (apart from religious ones) to circumcise anyone. You are not immune to STDs if you are circumcised. And as such I imagine parents tell their circumcised children to use condoms as well, making it a pretty moot point.

The fact of the matter is that children are being cut, and even if they dont remember the details they clearly do not enjoy it, and it inflicts pain on them. That is abuse in my book.

Goes to show how much you know on the topic if you think circumcision is to prevent STDs.

._.

When have I EVER said circumcision is to prevent STDs? I was actually arguing AGAINST that reason for circumcision. In fact, the post you quoted specifically stated that circumcising does NOT make you immune to STDs. I honestly dont know what you are talking about.

 

[tzimize]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42784426/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/?GT1=43001

What do you guys/gals think of this? Should circumcision be outlawed or should it stay because it is a religious practice?

It's a religious practice and it helps to prevent keep that part of the body clean from potential problems. San Francisco can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Also if I have a son I intend on having him circumcised. Got a problem with it? It's my damn kid and I won't have him getting a disease I could have prevented him from having. If he has problems with it he can talk to me about it when he grows up.

What is he going to talk about when it's irreversible? You're violating a child's rights. This isn't something like cutting their hair when they don't want it. If you don't want your child to contract an STD, then teach them about safe sex, not cutting off a piece of their genitals. Plus, circumcision doesn't prevent anything, it just lowers the chances of them catching it by a small amount.

It prevents alot of things actually. Like I said my kid and my decision.

Wouldn't it be much more ethical to let the child decide for himself when he has the sufficient metal capacity, rather than force something on him that he may hate for the rest of his life?

Also, as far as I know, circumcision has no immediate medical benefits, so could you educate me on this, maybe PM me some links?

Would you honestly believe me if I did? Also it is highly painful if its done at an older age. I had it done to me when I was really young so I wasn't able to remember and I don't feel that I was abused or anything like that. Also it's not STDs that it prevents although I wish it did.

If its painful why force it on a child? At least in adulthood pain killers can be used. The baby can't take painkillers, and is hyper sensitive.

At that age unless you have some sort of super-memory to remember literally everything that has ever happened to you then you aren't going to remember it.

One of the risks involves the foreskin growing abnormally and if it does can cause alot of health risks.

As an adult your foreskin isn't going to grow so if you leave it as an adult some harm can already have been done but if you take care of it at a very early age then there is no harm.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=416_1218124584

Can't load the video and its been proven they're not the most reliable of sources. I'm sorry I'd rather trust numerous doctors and pediatricians.

Penn And Teller actually does a lot of research, but sure a satirical program can't be taken 100% serious.

To bad you can't load the video because the beginning of it speaks for itself in how horrible the practice of circumcision really is.

Besides not all doctors and pediatricians believe circumcision is needed, or medically proven to be beneficial. I would say most doctors and pediatricians probably do not think it has any value at all. If it was proven to have major health benefits more countries would do it, and a larger amount of the worlds population would have been circumcises. (Today about 02% of the worlds male population are cut)

Oh fuck, that video is brutal. I withdraw all my previous statements. People who circumcise their children are worse than animals. I think my heart just broke.

 

[Baneat]

Should be illegal for under 18's like a tattoo is

 

[Kinokohatake]

I have two boys. Both of which are circumcised. I am circumcised. The boys were given pain medication for a day and afterwards weren't aware of it. The risk of infection is higher for uncircumcised, and cleaning more in depth. It's not to decrease sexual pleasure or anything like that. It was medical. It's not barbaric, or ritual, or anything like that.

 

[Harbinger_]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42784426/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/?GT1=43001

What do you guys/gals think of this? Should circumcision be outlawed or should it stay because it is a religious practice?

It's a religious practice and it helps to prevent keep that part of the body clean from potential problems. San Francisco can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Also if I have a son I intend on having him circumcised. Got a problem with it? It's my damn kid and I won't have him getting a disease I could have prevented him from having. If he has problems with it he can talk to me about it when he grows up.

What is he going to talk about when it's irreversible? You're violating a child's rights. This isn't something like cutting their hair when they don't want it. If you don't want your child to contract an STD, then teach them about safe sex, not cutting off a piece of their genitals. Plus, circumcision doesn't prevent anything, it just lowers the chances of them catching it by a small amount.

It prevents alot of things actually. Like I said my kid and my decision.

Wouldn't it be much more ethical to let the child decide for himself when he has the sufficient metal capacity, rather than force something on him that he may hate for the rest of his life?

Also, as far as I know, circumcision has no immediate medical benefits, so could you educate me on this, maybe PM me some links?

Would you honestly believe me if I did? Also it is highly painful if its done at an older age. I had it done to me when I was really young so I wasn't able to remember and I don't feel that I was abused or anything like that. Also it's not STDs that it prevents although I wish it did.

If its painful why force it on a child? At least in adulthood pain killers can be used. The baby can't take painkillers, and is hyper sensitive.

At that age unless you have some sort of super-memory to remember literally everything that has ever happened to you then you aren't going to remember it.

One of the risks involves the foreskin growing abnormally and if it does can cause alot of health risks.

As an adult your foreskin isn't going to grow so if you leave it as an adult some harm can already have been done but if you take care of it at a very early age then there is no harm.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=416_1218124584

Can't load the video and its been proven they're not the most reliable of sources. I'm sorry I'd rather trust numerous doctors and pediatricians.

Penn And Teller actually does a lot of research, but sure a satirical program can't be taken 100% serious.

To bad you can't load the video because the beginning of it speaks for itself in how horrible the practice of circumcision really is.

Besides not all doctors and pediatricians believe circumcision is needed, or medically proven to be beneficial. I would say most doctors and pediatricians probably do not think it has any value at all. If it was proven to have major health benefits more countries would do it, and a larger amount of the worlds population would have been circumcises. (Today about 02% of the worlds male population are cut)

While there isn't major health benefits there are minor health benefits. I'm thankful you agree that it is a satiricial show as some take it word for word letter for letter like cracked.com

 

[Harbinger_]

At that age unless you have some sort of super-memory to remember literally everything that has ever happened to you then you aren't going to remember it.

So just because they cant remember it its alright? Is it also alright to molest them, or hit them? They cant remember it.../facepalm.

Its a little bit different thank you and thats taking it out of context. If hitting my child spared them the chance of getting a disease later in life then thats one thing but molesting or hitting a child is far different than a medical procedure administered by a qualified physician.

Of course it is different, but there is NO reason (apart from religious ones) to circumcise anyone. You are not immune to STDs if you are circumcised. And as such I imagine parents tell their circumcised children to use condoms as well, making it a pretty moot point.

The fact of the matter is that children are being cut, and even if they dont remember the details they clearly do not enjoy it, and it inflicts pain on them. That is abuse in my book.

Goes to show how much you know on the topic if you think circumcision is to prevent STDs.

._.

When have I EVER said circumcision is to prevent STDs? I was actually arguing AGAINST that reason for circumcision. In fact, the post you quoted specifically stated that circumcising does NOT make you immune to STDs. I honestly dont know what you are talking about.

You said it doesn't prevent STDs and I agree it doesn't say for significantly reducing your chances of getting HIV from penis/vagina intercourse although of course I would still recommend safe sex.

http://www.interaksyon.net/article/2488/commentary-farewell-foreskin-or-9-things-about-pubescent-circumcision

Lowers the risk of urinary tract infection which can be more common in uncircumcised males in their early years of life.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/79454-pros-cons-circumcision/

It also argues there is less chance of contracting STDs but they still recommend condoms which is of course understandable.

http://www.essortment.com/benefits-circumcision-55672.html


If you want I can and will argue this until the proverbial cows come home because to be perfectly honest I have nothing better to do.

 

[Treblaine]

One of the risks involves the foreskin growing abnormally and if it does can cause alot of health risks.

If you're going to have a child circumcised over concerns like this, you may as well get that appendix out while you're at it.

Removing appendix = very complex and costly operation that carries significant risk of complications or death. While the actual risk of appendicitis is very very low, the problems with a perforated abdomen in childhood are great.

Circumcision = the most basic medical procedure with minuscule risk.

Seriously, the people who comment on medical issues should at least get a basic understanding of medicine.

Foreskin complications are common enough to warrant cutting it off at birth as a precaution?

Relative to the risks of circumcision... yes.

Realise that I myself have suffered from foreskin problems now getting it dealt with is much more risky.

 

[Coraxian]

"Foreskin complications are common enough to warrant cutting it off at birth as a precaution?

your appendix isn't being yanked out for the same reason is it? nor are tonsils or your nails etc. all of which are known to cause complications for some people at some point.
If it is giving problem then it can be taken off, until then stay off it.

Pretty much my opinion on the matter. Unnecessary surgical procedure.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

No man would choose circumcision if given the choice at age 18.

Why you Americans do it to your kids is beyond me.

 

[Dogstile]

snip

I think I love you for that post.

Look people, i'm currently uncircumcised, so obviously i'm slightly biased, but lets look at this from another perspective.

You, yes you, sitting in your chair. At birth, your fingernails and toenails were removed. This was because fingernails get dirt caught under them and can potentially go ingrown. Lets say that some people think it looks better too.

See that? That's a fictional procedure that has roughly all the same "benefits" as getting snipped. Would you want that decision to be made for you at birth, really?

(Also, I "snipped" her post, giggle giggle)

 

[l3o2828]

It should be a right because: 1: It is a religious practice, 2: It can keep it from getting certain diseases, and 3: It makes sex more pleasurable

WRONG.
The lack of a foreskin actually makes the penis less sensitive.

 

[frago roc]

I would never get my sons circumsized, it takes just one small mistake to turn a son into a daughter - no thanks.