OP: While The Lion King is pretty much my most favorite animated film, I'm not really sure Scar is really the "best" villian.Although he does rank up there in my favorites.
ravensheart18 said:
I was really confused by the lioness' hoping that Simba would win against Scar. The lioness' will always back the current lion because the first thing a new head line does is kill all the offspring of the previous head lion. They take those genetics seriously.
As for Scar...seemed like every disney badguy to me.
Because when you're making an evil version of the Doctor, you'd better darn well deliver.
And they did...at least with the Delgado (original Master) and Simms versions. The Anthony Ainsley version was good in his very first and very last encounter, giving some weight to his claim that he was being forced by the hammy direction of the time to do the moustache-twirling crap, when he wanted something more like the desperate will to survive and the love/hate relationship of the doctor that made the nuance of the other Masters. Every serial that has Ainsley as the Master, he's always just got some new gun or blow-up-the-world device. The Delgado and Simms versions didn't need that - they ARE their own weapons, like the doctor, able to make galaxy-destroying bombs out of pretty much anything, but usually not needing to as they manipulate everyone around them despite being stark raving crazy.
I liked the fact that they took the 'Doctor and Master as frenemies' arc from the Master's original appearances in the 3rd doctor's run. It was heavily implied, though not as two-way (the Master was a lot more polite to the doctor than the rather pompous 3rd Doctor was to him). But it's clear that the Master never really tries to KILL the doctor, and respects him tremendously. In Delgado's very first episode, when he hypnotises Jo and sends her to take a package-bomb to the Doctor, the Master's (also hypnotised) assistant asks 'oh...so you're going to kill him?'. The Master's reaction is awesome (wish I had the clip, but can't be bothered searching for it): '[condascending look] Don't be absurd! It's just a...an announcement of my arrival and intent. A declaration of hostilities, as it were.' - which is also what instantly marks the Master as a step ahead of the 'typical villain', by being fully aware that guns and bombs aren't particularly useful against the Doctor, and that he's engaging him in a chessmatch as an equal player.
Originally, the Master was supposed to die in the very last serial of the 3rd doctor, saving the doctor's life (so he can regenerate) in an act which was deliberately ambiguous so you didn't know whether he intended to save the doctor's life or not. Unfortunately Delgado died before the episode was shot, and so they had to have another character play the same role (In Planet of the Spiders). But the arc was clearly building towards it - The Master had been in every single episode/serial that year, and in the serial leading into it actually ended up working with the Doctor to defeat another group of alien invaders (referenced by the 10th doctor in the new series when begging the Master to regenerate).
With the Doctor and Master being the only two 'real' timelords left (theoretically there could be other ganger-clone-doctors, there's 10's twin from the doctor-donna split, and there's whatever River Song is, but they aren't part of the Doctor's old society so it isn't going to mean the same thing) it was always logical to play the Delgado/Pertwee master/doctor relationship up a notch, rather than the Ainsley version - as much as the Master might psychologically (or even physically torture) the Doctor now, there's no way he's going to kill him (even things like the bomb set at the point where they return to earth are combined with clues that he knows the doctor will get), and the Doctor certainly isn't going to kill him.
While it's all a matter of opinion, Scar doesn't have shit on Griffith from Berserk:
DO NOT LET THE IMAGE FOOL YOU. Griffith may seem to be a kind, charistmatic and overall chipper guy and perfect leader...but he's completely selfish and downright evil. This is a guy who spent his whole life working towards becoming a king, and he did ANYTHING to get there. He murdered people, sent children to their deaths and wasn't afraid to manipulate others to do his bidding. Eventually, he decides to go one step further after everything starts to fall to pieces by SACRIFICING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS MEN AND LOYAL FOLLOWERS IN ORDER TO BECOME A DEMONIC GOD and raped one of his former lieutenants in front of his best friend (I should also mention said lieutenant was the love interest of said best friend).
Soo....yeah, i think Griffith is probably a more capable villain then Scar. Granted, he's no joker or Luthor but..if you've read/watched Berserk you know this guys an absolute evil bastard. And to those who don't believe me, go look up the last episode of Berserk.
I dunno, as Disney villains go, I gotta give it up for Frollo. He was manipulative to the point of messing with a disabled kid for his entire life just for a slight benefit. Also perfectly willing to use religion as a weapon for his own devices. And don't forget, his whole evil scheme was to get Esmerelda to either be his love slave for all time, or to burn her alive.
I love the way Delgado played it totally straight, none of the camp histrionic villainy of Ainsley and Simm, even when watching Clangers. Delgado was the man.
Sticking to just Disney villians there are a lot of good choices and Scar would definatly be up there on the top as would Frollo but I think the top spot (and top disney villian song) actually goes to Zira, Scars lionness from lion king 2. I mean Scar just wanted powerand was willing to do what ever he needed to get it. Killing his brother and anyone else were just means to a goal for him. Zira however wants death distruction and revenge no mater what it may cost her.
I mean you get the hint she's a little unstable when she's singing lines like:
"Oh, the battle may be bloody, but that kind of works for me
The melody of angry growls
A counterpoint of painful howls
A symphony of death, oh my!
That's my lullaby"
and no only is she singing it she's doing so to a child she intends to use as part of her plot as a litteral lullaby.
Here's the link to the song for thouse that haven't seen it. I don't think as many people have seen that one as have seen the first lion kink whic is a pitty as it was really quite good.
Although you may want to warn people about spoilers. Putting the videos in spoiler tabs doesn't really help if you don't tell them what's being spoiled.
People have said this before and I will say it too.
As cool as Scar is, Frollo is the best Disney villain. Best song, best motive, meticulously fleshed-out, and an unwitting hypocrite. Which makes you hate him all the more.
Some say Shakespeare was all over this narrative stuff, and I agree. Still, Scar is pretty much the OG of the animated villains, except for maybe another Disney villain.
uh evilest character? i made a thread about this a few weeks ago...
For me, I choose Solf J. Kimblee. He's also known as the Crimson alchemis. He is an explosives expert who usually turns live people into bombs.
"Ah... what a beautiful sound. It doesn't get any better than that. I can feel it deep in my bones, like a part of me I never noticed before. That sound is an extension of my being. And this land - this land that's governed by death - I will paint it red with this shard of destruction."
I'm sorry, but just about any anime villain I've ever seen is just too fond of exposition to really be evil. Kimbley falls right into that trap as well.
leet_x1337 said:
I'm sorry, but Gaston's song is a lot better than Scar's.
Very true, but is Gaston really a villain? Sure he's a douche and would fit right in at any frat party, but he was clearly trying to save Belle from a horrible beast with a violent temper, who had serious psychological issues, and was clearly holding her hostage against her will. I'd say that makes Gaston the tragic hero.
OT: Scar is badass. And ya, his song is pretty much top 2 Disney villain songs ever. I love how he's actually a total puss (hehe) when confronted directly and is only really able to lead from the shadows.
Gaston didn't do it to save her- he did it to stroke his own ego and to get into her pants. He had what must have been dozens of other beautiful women tripping over each other to jump his bones, but that one brunette wasn't shallow enough to fall for his shit. He took it as an insult, and he'd be damned if he didn't get her. The fact that she ended up falling for Beast snapped his already fragile mind- what little humanity he had ran off to Aruba.
That's the way I see it. Gaston at the start represents what ever man wanted to be (and I suppose, in that time period, SHOULD be), while Beast is a cursed monster without compassion.
Belle's actions and circumstances bring out Gaston's and Beast's true personalities- the former falls into egotistical madness, while the latter finds the heart he never knew. The man becomes the beast, and the beast becomes the man.
My problem with Scar is the same one the Nostalgia Critic had. While he does actually win at first, once he gets his power he becomes an incompetent prima-dona. His character just becomes boring at that point.
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