seeing through walls in stealth orientated games

[Not Lord Atkin]

I think it's the new trend of making more predator-style stealth where you're supposed to be in control over the battlefield and pick enemies out one by one... I dunno, developers realised that it worked for batman and decided to make all stealth games like that, I guess? Yes, I like this type of stealth as well, it's good fun, but sometimes I miss the good old kind of stealth where you could feel like a badass if you were good enough, without the game needing to be designed that way. Like the pre-Conviction Splinter Cell games. Good times.

 

[Samantha Burt]

While I realise the power is optional... I still don't like the option of it being there

This here is all I need to point out. It's a single player game, so if you don't want to use it, don't. It's not like CoD or something where a lack of balance effects everyone. It's like people who complained about the Bee being overpowered in Borderlands 2. If you think it makes it too easy, you can avoid it and have no ramifications.

 

[Maze1125]

It's used as a substitute for hearing.
People often don't realise it but, in real life, if you're forced to rely on your hearing, you can still work out the locations of things, such as footsteps, with pretty much the same accuracy as sight.

So, being able to see through walls is just there to give you pretty much the same abilities you'd have if you were in that situation in real-life. In games without that ability, your character is pretty much more handicapped than a real-life person (although that's not necessarily bad, it gives a greater challenge which is often desirable).

 

[KissmahArceus]

It really bugs me in Far Cry 3, I don't like that my camera is magical and can tag enemies and that I can then see them through walls. I don't know why it bugs me but it does
Seeing enemies through walls in Deus Ex was fine, it was an ability, a power. Instinct in Hitman wasn't too bad either due to the risk/reward of replenishing it, plus it was optional in both games but in Far Cry 3, if I want to scope areas out with my camera then I tag dudes automagically and then meh

I'd like to be able to turn it off, that is all

 

[Loonyyy]

Depends on the game, but in recent "Stealth" titles (Games with a stealth option like Deus Ex, or poseur stealth like Dishonored), it's kind of gotten a bit out of hand. It lets the player plan ahead, sure, but it also takes out the risk of the execution of that plan. AIs are so dumb that if you know their entire patrol route, or where they all are, you're fine. Rather than making for more challenge, or even interesting gameplay, it's just removing the existing gameplay.

Games that do use it, that intend on being stealth games, need to find a way to balance it with the game mechanics, because as is, most stealth games are falling further and further towards easy, and stealth optional.

 

[IronMit]

It is fine in deus ex... By how fast your battery runs down...how slow it recharges and the fact you only have one rechargeable battery means you can't chain that power with a takedown or wall punch unless you are eating the illusive chocolate bars.

Also if you unlock that power you are for-going other useful powers like high jump that will let you avoid the enemies all together..So it balances out. The level is designed this way.

Dishonoured is a bit much. I will not be unlocking it...the fps style of the game means it destroys all suspense.

Hitman absolution is the stupidest thing ever. It being on by default, and not draining any power/meter on normal is kind of lame. Especially as you have radar that maps everyone out anyway(taht you can't tun off unless it's on ''purist''. I find radar as annoying as see through walls rubbish. Atleast in deus ex:hr the radar only picks people up once you see them.

 

[Silly Hats]

I kind of like it. Its nice to plan your attack, but it really depends on the game. I loved it in Human Revolution, but not so much in Dishonored. Dunno why.

I think that in Deus Ex it makes sense because of the Augmentation system/plot, you can survive falls or make it easy to penetrate high security systems with ease. While in Dishonored, they can just pass the "Oh, magic lets you do those things" card.

 

[Retal19]

Well, honestly, I don't feel like stealth games today have really gone in the right direction. Instead of improving the AI more, or reaching stealth gameplays full potential, they have added an option to Rambo the level instead. I noticed it started with MGS4 when Snake could just stand upright and gun everyone down when he felt like his back was giving out from all the crouching. To me that pretty much brakes the cardinal rule in stealth games. Not saying you should be as weak as a lamb if you're detected, but being able to Rambo it is another extreme better suited for straight up shooters or action games. If you want to make a stealth game, make one, if you want to make an action game, do so. But don't try to do both or you'll just get moosh.

The thing is with this though, if you want to go Rambo in a Stealth Game, generally, you have to be god damn Rambo. I tried to go Rambo in MGS3, and I got gunned down in seconds, because I'm not wearing body armour, this is a stealth mission. Everybody else is, because they are soldiers and guards. Eventually, I got to the stage where I could go Rambo, but only after a few weeks of getting really good at the game.

And On-Topic:
I see it as a stand in for the character's hearing. Because even though we ARE given that sense in Video Games, we are not given all of it. Unless you're lucky enough to have a surround sound setup, you've probably just got standard stereo speakers, like me. What can I tell from these? Well, I can tell that an enemy is nearby, and whether he is on my left, or my right. Unless I put on my headphones, this is all I'll ever know. And it would be a bit unfair to make me rely on my hearing, when I don't have the hardware to do so. So, they take care of that for us, and within the range of our hearing, our enemies are highlighted through walls.

 

[K84]

In Deus Ex Hr it made sense, you were a top of the line cyborg with state of the art tech at your disposal.
Cloaking, sound dampening etc., so x-ray vision made sense there in context.

But i do refrain from using things like Batman's detective vision and AC's Eagle Vision when not prompted to do so.
It DOES make things to easy and takes away the suspense that stealth games should have.

But i like having the option.
(and yes, i know AC is the worst title to name in a stealth game topic...but it's a guilty pleasure)

 

[Doclector]

Personally, it always annoyed in stealth games if I turned a corner and was instantly spotted by the one guy I couldn't see when peeking around. So, yeah, I'm in favour of super-vision. Maybe just because I suck at "pure" stealth, but still...

 

[loa]

While I realise the power is optional... I still don't like the option of it being there

This here is all I need to point out. It's a single player game, so if you don't want to use it, don't. It's not like CoD or something where a lack of balance effects everyone. It's like people who complained about the Bee being overpowered in Borderlands 2. If you think it makes it too easy, you can avoid it and have no ramifications.

If it's there, the game will be balanced around it.

 

[HaraDaya]

Depends on the setting of the game. In Far Cry 3 I didn't like it. In Deus EX: HR it felt appropriate.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

The Theif games never had the ability to see through walls. The Theif games are the best stealth games ever made. The conclusion one can draw here is obvious.

 

[Samantha Burt]

This here is all I need to point out. It's a single player game, so if you don't want to use it, don't. It's not like CoD or something where a lack of balance effects everyone. It's like people who complained about the Bee being overpowered in Borderlands 2. If you think it makes it too easy, you can avoid it and have no ramifications.

If it's there, the game will be balanced around it.

Then why does it make it too easy? Surely if it's balanced, it still presents a challenge?

 

[teh_Canape]

I'm fine with it, I just want a way to know where the enemies are
either with see-through-walls (dishonored) or a motion tracking radar (metal gear solid)
although I'd just want either of them, not both at the same time

 

[loa]

This here is all I need to point out. It's a single player game, so if you don't want to use it, don't. It's not like CoD or something where a lack of balance effects everyone. It's like people who complained about the Bee being overpowered in Borderlands 2. If you think it makes it too easy, you can avoid it and have no ramifications.

If it's there, the game will be balanced around it.

Then why does it make it too easy? Surely if it's balanced, it still presents a challenge?

It's a completely different game.

See metal gear solid 2 and metal gear solid 3.
No minimap with convenient cones of vision in 3, completely different gameplay experience because they bent the whole game around there being no minimap.

See also every modern shooter ever.
Shields/recharging health change about everything of the game.

If it's there, it most likely affected the game no matter if it's "optional".

 

[Tomaius]

There was a game a few years ago on the PS2 (I think) that let you see through the eyes of an enemy. It was a survival horror but it could be used pretty effectively in a stealth game.

Yahtzee reviewed the sequel on Zero Punctuation.

But I think it works given its got some kind of restraint. Works best in DE:HR where you have to monitor your use of it.

 

[Treblaine]

The thing is classic stealth games like Metal Gear Solid effectively DID let you see beyond walls only not by seeing *through* them but seeing OVER them.

So it's not like stealth is broken by being able to see the enemy when he couldn't possibly see you.

 

[Another]

I kind of like it. Its nice to plan your attack, but it really depends on the game. I loved it in Human Revolution, but not so much in Dishonored. Dunno why.

I think that in Deus Ex it makes sense because of the Augmentation system/plot, you can survive falls or make it easy to penetrate high security systems with ease. While in Dishonored, they can just pass the "Oh, magic lets you do those things" card.

I think its also the combat a bit. I remember dying a lot when caught in Deus Ex HR, but Dishonored is pretty easy combat wise, so it feels like my planning means more in the long run for HR. Does that make any sense?

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I don't like it. Ideally the game should be designed without such an option in mind. If they want to add it as a way to make the game super easy, go nuts. I vastly prefer without it though. I was recently playing Far Cry 3 and the tagging element in that game is retarded.