Sexism against men

[Togs]

False. Your argument seems to consist of putting words in my mouth.

No my arguement consists of trying to get you to make more then a half point before running away and getting defensive when I ask you to explain it, you seem ot have some knowledge of the technical side of debate but here lies a rather sizeable hole in it.

What more, perchance, do you want from me? You make up my statements and then complain they don't go far enough.

I make up nothing, you said the following-

I said equating the two was false. Those are not the same.

So how exactly if your so smart is that any different from this?

Your arguement seems to consist of -

"Mysandry and mysogyny are not equal"
"Mysogyny is worse because its gone on longer/is more prevalent"

or this?

t's not "equally bad" because it's not an equal situation.

Right next part-

In other words, you further assumed a false stance on my end.

Prove it, I see no evidence otherwise so far.

Except I explained myself. Both in "jargon" and in plain English. It just. Doesn't. say. what. You. Need. It. To. Say. So. You. Disregard. It.

NO. YOU. DID. NOT.

Read your post again and kindly point to where you did, all you have said is they are not the same, nothing else- you cannot make a point and then not expect to not have defend or explain it, if your gonna state an opinion you cannot expect people to just accept it on faith.

You randomly go off on what you think I mean, and then expect me to defend it. That's ridiculous. I am not responsible for what you infer, nor should I have to defend your inferences from you.

Im trying ot get you to explain yourself and your point AS. THATS. HOW. AN. ARGUEMENT. WORKS.

If Im so stupid and struggling to comprehend your genius why dont you put the little one out of his misery by gifting him with your great insight?

Or is it as I expect that your just full of hot air.

 

[cdstephens]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

http://antimisandry.com/html-moderated/domestic-violence-against-men-key-statistics-22080.html

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

http://www.physorg.com/news72113800.html


I'm gonna go ahead and bring actual statistics in here Basically, a huge portion of domestic violence is against men, almost 50% (depending on which study you go by), which goes against the common perception that only women can be abused or raped. Anyone who tries to deny this is just supporting sexism against a minority group, that is being men who have been abused in their lifetime, and thus helping perpetuate the current state at which men feel as if they cannot seek help from anyone in such an abusive relationship, precisely because society dictates that either such a relationship cannot exist, or that if it does exist then the man is weak for being in that situation.

Or, to put it on a more emotional level, try walking up to a man who has been physically abused by his girlfriend and tell that a girl getting abused is more important to deal with than his abuse.

Not to mention sexism concerning alimony, child custody, and the draft. Although a draft hasn't been issued in years, the government still has the right to draft men in the country during a time of war, but cannot draft women, and if the man refuses to be drafted he can be fined for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Here's child custody statistics:
http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats18.htm

When parents mediate, only 6% of the time does sole possession go to the father, while when going to court 11% of the time they go to the father. The statistic for women is 63% and 44% respectively.

 

[Shycte]

As expected, my fellow men are complaining about men being discrimininated, which is a issue of course. But we are no where near the point of women being equal to the men, they are still underpaid and underrepresented.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[Togs]

As expected, my fellow men are complaining about men being discrimininated, which is a issue of course. But we are no where near the point of women being equal to the men, they are still underpaid and underrepresented.

Haters gonna hate.

Not at all, whilst I cant speak for anyone else in this thread Im personally sick and tired of being told to feel bad and guilty for being born a man in a world where some men have treated women badly.

I personally have never raped or beaten a women, or ignored anything she may of said just because she was a woman. Ive never passed one over for promotion just because she was a woman or countless other things that people have come out with in this thread- so why exactly should I feel bad for it? Why exactly should all men be blamed for something that not all of us have done?

 

[kzeelio]

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

Serving in the front lines of the army?

And it's not just about rights, women are grossly underrepresented in the government. Only 17% of congress members are women, how many US citizens are women?

 

[cdstephens]

As expected, my fellow men are complaining about men being discrimininated, which is a issue of course. But we are no where near the point of women being equal to the men, they are still underpaid and underrepresented.

Haters gonna hate.

Do you have statistics to compare and contrast? From what I know, above a 100k per year salary women make about 80% of men, but below that they are more or less equal. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/the-gender-pay-gap-persists-especially-for-the-rich/

To me, thousands of men not getting child custody, proper alimony, or the inability for them to report domestic abuse is more important than a 25% salary increase, mainly because once your making that much money in the first place, you're well off and have no problem supporting yourself. It's just my personal opinion that violence charges, emotional abuse, and anything involving the ability to see one's own *children* is more important than how much money a certain group makes at a point where they already have enough money to support themselves, but that's just my opinion.

I will agree that under representation of women in politics and business is a problem that needs to be looked at though; it's pretty sad that women in America aren't seen as qualified to be President by a good portion of the population, for example. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/03/opinion/polls/main1281319.shtml

Most of that I think has to do with how gender is portrayed in media; men are supposed to be strong, enduring, buff, while women are supposed to be fragile, delicate, and innocent.

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

Serving in the front lines of the army?

Statistics or quote to back this up?

Fact is, women aren't oppressed. It's just that society views women differently than men, and thus treats them differently. This isn't the same as outright oppression though.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

as men, we have the right to pay higher insurance for the simple fact of being male.

and how is that not sexist?

oh right, it's because women aren't the one's complaining...

the whole "we were oppressed!" is such bullshit, i had absolutely nothing to do with that nor is it applied in modern first world terms, so stop treating me like a bastard for something i didn't do. at some point or another men/women of all cultures were oppressed or used, does that mean everyone deserves dues paid for it?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

Serving in the front lines of the army?

And it's not just about rights, women are grossly underrepresented in the government. Only 17% of congress members are women, how many US citizens are women?

that last one has nothing to do with sexism, find me a woman that has views that match up with my own and i will vote the shit out of her (not saying any male candidates are any better) but still, like hell am i voting for palin or clinton in the future, I don't get how that is males fault....

but then again that seems to happen alot when you have a dick, it all comes down to us being not mature and can't think at a high enough level to understand.

 

[kzeelio]

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

Serving in the front lines of the army?

And it's not just about rights, women are grossly underrepresented in the government. Only 17% of congress members are women, how many US citizens are women?

that last one has nothing to do with sexism, find me a woman that has views that match up with my own and i will vote the shit out of her (not saying any male candidates are any better) but still, like hell am i voting for palin or clinton in the future, I don't get how that is males fault....

but then again that seems to happen alot when you have a dick, it all comes down to us being not mature and can't think at a high enough level to understand.

It doesn't have much to do with sexism of the voters, but it's an issue because men (in the government) have more power on laws that affect only or mostly women (abortion, rape laws)than women do.

Edit: Yes, abortion "affects" the woman's family, too, but the only direct effect is on her.

 

[Shycte]

As expected, my fellow men are complaining about men being discrimininated, which is a issue of course. But we are no where near the point of women being equal to the men, they are still underpaid and underrepresented.

Haters gonna hate.

Not at all, whilst I cant speak for anyone else in this thread Im personally sick and tired of being told to feel bad and guilty for being born a man in a world where some men have treated women badly.

I personally have never raped or beaten a women, or ignored anything she may of said just because she was a woman. Ive never passed one over for promotion just because she was a woman or countless other things that people have come out with in this thread- so why exactly should I feel bad for it? Why exactly should all men be blamed for something that not all of us have done?

I have never said that you should feel bad about anything. I just said that many men complain about us being dicriminated like the women some how had gone past us. That is not the case.

You should never feel bad about anything you could not effect.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

Serving in the front lines of the army?

And it's not just about rights, women are grossly underrepresented in the government. Only 17% of congress members are women, how many US citizens are women?

that last one has nothing to do with sexism, find me a woman that has views that match up with my own and i will vote the shit out of her (not saying any male candidates are any better) but still, like hell am i voting for palin or clinton in the future, I don't get how that is males fault....

but then again that seems to happen alot when you have a dick, it all comes down to us being not mature and can't think at a high enough level to understand.

It doesn't have much to do with sexism of the voters, but it's an issue because men (in the government) have more power on laws that affect only or mostly women (abortion, rape laws)than women do.

Edit: Yes, abortion "affects" the woman's family, too, but the only direct effect is on her.

by your logic, having a woman dominated senate/house would then put more power into females for their supposed "laws", which would still be sexist. which is utter bullshit in the first place, from both perspectives, you should be able to elect someone who can make the best decisions for both, you don't need an equal amount of women or men in every category.

but then again, i guess your just looking for the female side of it, instead of looking at it from both angles to make a truly "unisex/human" decision.

 

[Shycte]

Snip

Well, I can't speak for every country in the world obviously but here is a PDF by SCB [http://www.scb.se/statistik/_publikationer/LE0201_2010A01_BR_X10BR1001.pdf] that show that women recive 10 - 20 % less than the men. And that is not only in high CEO posts mind you. It is in Swedish though.

Here is one from U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics [http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2009.pdf]. Now, I will never ever deny that men can be discriminated, and that it does happend. It is an issue that need to be dealt with. But in many areas women aren't as close to men as people here want to believe. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

 

[kzeelio]

Woman have all the same legal rights as men do in the U.S. so kindly cut that bullshit.

When it it actually becomes true, I'll be glad to. Until then, kindly cut that specious, FALSE "reasoning."

Name one right men have that women do not in the US.

Serving in the front lines of the army?

And it's not just about rights, women are grossly underrepresented in the government. Only 17% of congress members are women, how many US citizens are women?

that last one has nothing to do with sexism, find me a woman that has views that match up with my own and i will vote the shit out of her (not saying any male candidates are any better) but still, like hell am i voting for palin or clinton in the future, I don't get how that is males fault....

but then again that seems to happen alot when you have a dick, it all comes down to us being not mature and can't think at a high enough level to understand.

It doesn't have much to do with sexism of the voters, but it's an issue because men (in the government) have more power on laws that affect only or mostly women (abortion, rape laws)than women do.

Edit: Yes, abortion "affects" the woman's family, too, but the only direct effect is on her.

by your logic, having a woman dominated senate/house would then put more power into females for their supposed "laws", which would still be sexist. which is utter bullshit in the first place, from both perspectives, you should be able to elect someone who can make the best decisions for both, you don't need an equal amount of women or men in every category.

but then again, i guess your just looking for the female side of it, instead of looking at it from both angles to make a truly "unisex/human" decision.

What the HELL? When did I say anything about a women-dominated senate/house? All I said is that it's unfair to have a HUGE male influence on women's issues. I only made a statement, first of all, not solutions. And if I did have any solutions to offer, it would be that we need to educate voters more on issues like abortion, rape, and women in the army. How is that anti-male?

You took a grand total of five sentences about unequal representation and turned it into "I want a matriarchy". No. Ideally there would be a 50/50 split just like there is in the population.

 

[Togs]

I have never said that you should feel bad about anything. I just said that many men complain about us being discriminated like the women some how had gone past us. That is not the case.

You should never feel bad about anything you could not effect.

I never said you did, and I dont think thats the source of all the anger on the topic, it comes from the fact that there seems to be a consensus of opinion in some camps that because of past sexism bad men should be persecuted in return, and that positive discrimination is a good thing because of this.

 

[Shycte]

I have never said that you should feel bad about anything. I just said that many men complain about us being discriminated like the women some how had gone past us. That is not the case.

You should never feel bad about anything you could not effect.

I never said you did, and I dont think thats the source of all the anger on the topic, it comes from the fact that there seems to be a consensus of opinion in some camps that because of past sexism bad men should be persecuted in return, and that positive discrimination is a good thing because of this.

It might be, and that is an issue. It has become somewhat okay to joke about discriminating men and in some cases, even straight out dicriminate them. I guess that comes from men being so dominant for the last... I don't know 4000 years? Hopefully, it will go away with time.

 

[Togs]

It might be, and that is an issue. It has become somewhat okay to joke about discriminating men and in some cases, even straight out dicriminate them. I guess that comes from men being so dominant for the last... I don't know 4000 years? Hopefully, it will go away with time.

That's all my side of the debate wants- true equality.

And we don't understand why we should pay the price for the transgressions of others.

 

[Michael Hirst]

I remember a few years ago in the UK there was a female police officer who was shot dead while on duty. Of course this is very sad and shouldn't have happened etc but then there were women coming on opinion shows saying more needed to be done to protect female officers and that they shouldn't be put in harms way.

I remember flipping out at that part, all police officers are actively in harms way, their job is to apprehend criminals, many of whom are dangerous. If women want equality it comes with all the risks. In the police force there's no room for gender discrimination of any kind and just like a soldier anyone who signs up for the job knows the risks attatched.

Now if the comments had been that "All police officers need more protection" instead of just females I would have been fine with it. Obviously nothing came of these comments and female police officers still have to fulfil the same duties as the male officers in England.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I always found it weird how when men are disadvantaged in some way and someone tries to fix it, people would say it was sexist. Case in point, when the retirement ages here in the UK were being increased a few months ago, the two retirement ages for men and women would be brought up to the same age, instead of women having a lower retirement age than men. The radio was filled with feminists saying the government was discriminating against women.

I also find that women get away with saying things about men that men wouldn't be able to say about women. A woman can create a kind of women vs men mentality in a competition of some sort and tease at the men, but men can't do the same back. But this happens with a lot of other things, such as race. If a society is taught to respect one part of society, it will only respect that part of society and will continue doing what it does to the other parts.

Saying that, women do still experience discrimination in other fields so I'd say it about evens out.

 

[SwishiestB0g]

While I don't believe the sexism against men is anywhere near as bad as it was for women, I do believe there's a double standard. Example, at a recent family gathering the women of the family were ogling a calendar of very fit men and saying which one they liked best. I pointed out that if I had brought a bikini calendar to the table it would've been extremely inappropriate but for them it was fine. Not sexism just a double standard.

I too however would love true equality.