Sexism in gaming, do we really give a f**k?
- Thread starter hazabaza1
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Well I personally don't give a fuck... but it's obvious that many people do.
Also, to be fair, in your examples both are rooted in male fantasies. One is male sexual the other is male power/violence... and they tend to go together.
So I can see why some people would complain.
Also, to be fair, in your examples both are rooted in male fantasies. One is male sexual the other is male power/violence... and they tend to go together.
So I can see why some people would complain.
Its allways easy to dont give a fuck if it doesnt affect yourself, but it does affect me, so I do care.
Unless a game tries to actively imply that one sex is better than another, I don't really care. Making women appear in skimpy outfits isn't unique to gaming. The fact that it appeals to people and makes game developers money seems more like business sense than an insult. If you think a game is sexist, don't buy it. If the rest of the world media was done with the whole supermodel stuff and gaming was the only one exploiting it, then we can argue about it. But going past a magazine rack proves to me that video games are still the minority in the field of making women appear in skimpy outfits.
It would be interesting if video games were the first media to break away from the sex appeal vice but that wont happen so go after some more substantial issues instead of focusing on video games. There are bigger problems even within the sexism conflict that can actually be fixed, there is no way humans are going to give up using sexy images to make money.
It would be interesting if video games were the first media to break away from the sex appeal vice but that wont happen so go after some more substantial issues instead of focusing on video games. There are bigger problems even within the sexism conflict that can actually be fixed, there is no way humans are going to give up using sexy images to make money.
This thread is absolutely appalling. Yes, sexism anywhere is a huge deal, we as people who love games need to drag our medium past these juvenile tendencies. The fact that you call GoW "fucking faggy", and say that gamers are socially inadequate shows your ignorance.
It's pretty ease to say sexism isn't a big deal when you are obviously a straight male.
It's pretty ease to say sexism isn't a big deal when you are obviously a straight male.
Obviously anyone who took the time to respond to this thread, even if it was to say they don't care, cares a little bit. They would have just glossed over it otherwise. You know what's more of a problem than all the threads about sexism in gaming? --that nothing has really changed all that much. Sexism does apply to both genders. Most of the time you'd be hard-pressed to find a character-male or female-that is not sexualized to some extent. It's a problem that leads guys and ladies to think that they should have these certain body types in order to be attractive. I'm willing to bet that these reinforced images in video games (and in all media, really) cause just as much self-esteem issues in men as in women.
The discussion of sexism and sexualization is not one that should just apply to female characters anymore, it should apply to all genders. Men have the right to complain and say that they would like more realistic character design for male characters as much as females have to complain about the same thing for female character design. Hell, I'm a woman and I do take concern with all the sexualized male characters that I see every day.
You personally don't have to have a problem with it but you cannot just dismiss the people who do take concern with the rampant hypersexualization of both male and female characters.
The discussion of sexism and sexualization is not one that should just apply to female characters anymore, it should apply to all genders. Men have the right to complain and say that they would like more realistic character design for male characters as much as females have to complain about the same thing for female character design. Hell, I'm a woman and I do take concern with all the sexualized male characters that I see every day.
You personally don't have to have a problem with it but you cannot just dismiss the people who do take concern with the rampant hypersexualization of both male and female characters.
Video games & comics = Make the women as sexy as possible for men, make the men as unattractive as possible for women.
Maybe some percentage of women find men who look like Superman & Cyclops or Duke Nukem & Solid Snake sexy, but I find them extremely repulsive.
For me, "equal opportunity sexy" is the one thing JRPGs are still doing right, as well as KMMOs & CMMOs.
Am I really just saying that men have to be Asian in order to be sexy? No! They just need less muscle, a clean shaven face, styled hair, & to show off a little more skin, or something skin-tight yet frilly & flamboyant. TERA Online has the right idea with it's armor.
Pictured above: Sexy.
Maybe some percentage of women find men who look like Superman & Cyclops or Duke Nukem & Solid Snake sexy, but I find them extremely repulsive.
For me, "equal opportunity sexy" is the one thing JRPGs are still doing right, as well as KMMOs & CMMOs.
Am I really just saying that men have to be Asian in order to be sexy? No! They just need less muscle, a clean shaven face, styled hair, & to show off a little more skin, or something skin-tight yet frilly & flamboyant. TERA Online has the right idea with it's armor.
Pictured above: Sexy.
Give the man a medal, he's got it. As for the current uproar over Dragon's Crown, I'm an anime person so the design, while obviously ridiculous and exaggerated, seems somewhat normal for the genre and style.Chemical Alia said:
As for the issue of women in games, here's my belief; if the gameplay surrounding a character is good and does not try to objectify her further with senseless stuff like clothes being blasted off, I'm generally inclined to at least try the character out.
In the gaming culture, the majority of developers believe that the audience is almost entirely white, hetrosexual males which leads to outlooks and designs that raise outcry, both legitimate or not.
So play and work on games you're comfortable with.Chemical Alia said:
The existence of sexualized characters, on both sides of the gender aisle, in one game or another does not hinder your ability to accomplish those goals.
That...is a very good point.Uhura said:
'I don't care about this issue so much I will start another thread/discussion about this issue'.
Interesting.
No issues there then.
Well, here's where some people have a problem. A lot of people don't necessarily just want some bedroom fantasy--they want a well-written character that we come to care about on more levels than just their sexuality. That doesn't mean their sexuality is never brought to attention if it fits the character, or that there is never an intimate moment between that character and another one, but a lot of gamers are very likely ticked off that so many developers would rather lazily create some sex appeal rather than write a compelling character. Is there a place for the sex appeal? Yes, but many times it's just used as cheap marketing at the expense of a truly compelling character.flarty said:
I think Prince of Persia is a good example of the above. Throughout The Sands of Time Trilogy, The Prince had two love interests: Farah and Kaileena. Both of them had somewhat sexualized dress, and The Prince had sex with each of them at some point throughout the trilogy. You want to know the difference between the two? Farah was a well-written character that had a believable, lovable personality that brought about good character dynamics when she interacted with The Prince, and the two often worked together during the gameplay, enhancing the bond between them. We also saw The Prince slowly develop in his love towards her and his way of approaching her after it was apparent he loved her. Kaileena...the only reason The Prince really had an interest in her was because he wanted to have sex with her. Sure, they tried giving us a "I'm trying to escape my fate" ordeal, but The Prince hardly knew about that until his fight with her, and it was really hard to take her tragedy seriously as she walked around in her revealing outfit seducing The Prince without any effort. The Prince's approach to her also was never really convincing. And I haven't even begun on how the sex scene with her was more of a juvenile "Oh look! Sex!" as opposed The Sands of Time's more mature "the consummation of a loving relationship" approach. I think the fan reaction of The Sands of Time and Farah compared to Warrior Within and Kaileena speaks for itself as to what people preferred.
Again, for many people, I doubt the issue is "I don't want to see any form of female sexualization or any form of sex in a game!" Instead, it's a desire to see us move on from using sex alone to try to make us care about a character, even if there might be some sexualization going on. Some may be more extreme, but I'd imagine some fall under this category. Even in this case, people are certainly going to care a lot because their enjoyment of a game and potential attachment to certain characters is being influenced by this.
(Note: I'm not trying to ignore the moral and ethical dilemmas present with this, but I'm just offering one that I don't hear brought up a whole lot)
We can't "give two shits" if we never heard of them. Thanks to this new game being in the spotlight, I now do and can laugh at those other games as well.Tenmar said:
Is this a real question? It works like breaking my immersion when I'm trying to have fun and making my eyes roll out of my head from how much the game is trying to sexually titillate a hypothetical dude me. Which is why I don't play a lot of games, games that I might even otherwise enjoy.krazykidd said:
I can count on one hand the number of game studios I'd ever want to work at and do any sort of character art. I love what I do, but it kind of does.LostGryphon said:
I've never cared, never will. Unless people actually take their time to explain what their deal is with video games and sexism without resorting to fallacious statements, I'll just look at it as forgettable noise of inaction.
If this REALLY bothers you, talk civilly. The vitrol in the gaming community (the Escapist in particular, as people seem to love this topic here) is just making me care less about a simple issue that could be easily fixed.
If this REALLY bothers you, talk civilly. The vitrol in the gaming community (the Escapist in particular, as people seem to love this topic here) is just making me care less about a simple issue that could be easily fixed.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.406686-Poll-Wow-Just-wow This is what I think about the issue, the feminists making a fuzz about it are usually making arguments exactly like this and sadly being heard as if it was important, still they're not really changing the industry either way. I'm all for more equality and extra options in games, female/male options much like in Mass Effect where Shephard can be either sex is what I'd like to see more. Having more female characters who might be just as unappealing to men as current male characters are to women is not progress.
As far as characters with substance there's characters without it from both sexes in abundance throughout gaming, the overanalysis of people like Sarkesian is usually full of holes(see the linked thread please.) and all it boils down to in the end is they want to censor art for the sake of it. Funnily enough other mediums that also have bad female characters and stereotyping don't get such flak, gaming must be special or perhaps an easier target.
One thing that feminist crusaders usually focus on is female characters needing rescue or aid, they conveniently forget about the occasions(most often in the same games or series.) that the male characters also require aid or rescuing, it's all warped up, there might be some truth to part of the discourse but it's been tainted by extremism and fact manipulation a while ago by now... So no, not really I don't think I give a fuck by now when it's been repeated to death and done in a very poor way the way I see it. I also think we need less threads about it here, many bans have involved them already.
As far as characters with substance there's characters without it from both sexes in abundance throughout gaming, the overanalysis of people like Sarkesian is usually full of holes(see the linked thread please.) and all it boils down to in the end is they want to censor art for the sake of it. Funnily enough other mediums that also have bad female characters and stereotyping don't get such flak, gaming must be special or perhaps an easier target.
One thing that feminist crusaders usually focus on is female characters needing rescue or aid, they conveniently forget about the occasions(most often in the same games or series.) that the male characters also require aid or rescuing, it's all warped up, there might be some truth to part of the discourse but it's been tainted by extremism and fact manipulation a while ago by now... So no, not really I don't think I give a fuck by now when it's been repeated to death and done in a very poor way the way I see it. I also think we need less threads about it here, many bans have involved them already.
Funnily enough this kind of design is one of the many reasons I started hating jrpg's after Final Fantasy 9. It's, and I run the risk of being crass and politically incorrect here, extremely gay.likalaruku said:Video games & comics = Make the women as sexy as possible for men, make the men as unattractive as possible for women.
Maybe some percentage of women find men who look like Superman & Cyclops or Duke Nukem & Solid Snake sexy, but I find them extremely repulsive.
For me, "equal opportunity sexy" is the one thing JRPGs are still doing right, as well as KMMOs & CMMOs.
Am I really just saying that men have to be Asian in order to be sexy? No! They just need less muscle, a clean shaven face, styled hair, & to show off a little more skin, or something skin-tight yet frilly & flamboyant. TERA Online has the right idea with it's armor.
Pictured above: Sexy.
You guys must really be playing some different games than me... This kind of comment would usually make me think gaming represents women as a bunch of shit and bad stereotypes, when what I see is definitely not that. Not to mention it's generally the same as with other mediums like movies and books.Chemical Alia said: