Sexsim: have the tables actually turned?
- Thread starter Vault101
- Start date
Recommended Videos
men have no idea with what kind of shit woman has to deal and vice versa.
so we can sit here, and "discuss" but the only thing we can hope to achieve here is a flame war.
every time both genders get to the middle of balance, somebody tips the scales in favor of one gender. deal with it - it wont go away.
so we can sit here, and "discuss" but the only thing we can hope to achieve here is a flame war.
every time both genders get to the middle of balance, somebody tips the scales in favor of one gender. deal with it - it wont go away.
The Beaureu of Labor Statistics disagrees. [http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2011/ted_20110216_data.htm] In any profession, women earn less than men. Or would you say men perform "more demanding in effort and time investment, more risky" jobs in education, retail, financial activities and public administration? The type of work where the genders are closest is construction, where I'm guessing they do pretty much the some work.sravankb said:
OT: No. Not by a long shot. Men have it less better than women, but we're still favoured in pretty much every field in pretty much every way. Number of female CEO's of Fortune 500 company's? 12. 0.024%. Things are slightly better in Fortune 1000, where women make up 0.025% of CEOs. I accept that these positions are filled based on talent and experience, but 12 out of 500?
If you want to be among the very richest, you better be a man.
*sucks teeth*BiscuitTrouser said:
You're still in the position of an outsider looking in, though. There's a limit...admittedly, not everyone from group X has the same experiences and none of them can speak for the whole, either.
Ok ok, fair enough, but from what I've seen that is quite unusual. Like I said, in most cases, that I have seen, each group gets homophobia from their own gender, and believe me, I know a fair few other gays, and taken from all their experience, they have all suffered homophobia, but mostly from their own gender. In this sense I guess it's 'equal'. Doesn't make it any less sad though...BiscuitTrouser said:
with all respect I dont think people should be automatically banned from discussing certain issues, because they havnt experienced them first handmgirl said:
like If guys started talking about the implications of say domestic abuse or rape, I dont think its fair to say "you cant have an opinion! this is a womans issue! youve never been abused/raped!"
however I do agree with you in regards to the lesbian thing, its kind of hilariously niave for guys to think its "more acceptible" because "omg man! lesbians hooott!!!" as you said its not %100 fine with alot of chicks
and even worse its only acceptible for guys if they are "hot"...butch lesbians? from what Ive seen they seem to be acceptible targets for everyone to ridicule
and while I cant completley understand what its like having never experienced such a thing...the thing about "being with a girl for their benefit".....man that would fucking piss me off too
Well, I do English (lit and language as seperate courses) as well as maths mechanics at A level, and I'm pretty much the only guy in either of my English classes. Also, there are only two girls in Maths.
So there is clearly a difference.
However, the girls in my English lessons don't seem to get any preferencial treatment over me or vice versa, and the same goes in maths. But I think it can be quite hard to get taken seriously as a guy doing English by people outside of the actual lessons. So there's that...
On a societal level, I think that it is important to continue efforts to reduce discrimation against women as well as ethnic minorities, gay people etc, but it is also important not to try to shoehorn people into areas they do not want to go into just to reach some kind of quota. If only 10% of the governing board of your company is female, don't try to fill out the number of females with people that would be better in a different role, but do promote capable women as and when they come along.
So there is clearly a difference.
However, the girls in my English lessons don't seem to get any preferencial treatment over me or vice versa, and the same goes in maths. But I think it can be quite hard to get taken seriously as a guy doing English by people outside of the actual lessons. So there's that...
On a societal level, I think that it is important to continue efforts to reduce discrimation against women as well as ethnic minorities, gay people etc, but it is also important not to try to shoehorn people into areas they do not want to go into just to reach some kind of quota. If only 10% of the governing board of your company is female, don't try to fill out the number of females with people that would be better in a different role, but do promote capable women as and when they come along.
Well - you may actually be wrong. I can't dispute how you've perceived things growing up, but I can question whether it represents the majority.mgirl said:
Recently in my country, they enquired a large population of pupils as to how they felt about people being homosexuals and while only some 13% of the females found homosexuality offensive, I'm sad to say that close to 50% of the males had a problem with it.
Of course, this is just an example from my country and it needn't be the *exact* same thing in yours, I'd still call it a more valid argument and I'd caution against extrapolating an universal truth based on your immediate circle of acquaintances.
I'm not trying to say that you've had it particularly easy or *anything* like that. My brother is gay and so whenever people around me express disgust at homosexuals I also cringe a bit - I can only imagine being the target of that hate.
I have never felt belittled or disadvantaged in society by reason of my gender. I'm male, and a proud feminist. In my opinion, every right-thinking person who has had their conciousness raised ought to be a proud feminist. I have never felt that "affirmative action" has screwed me out of a job, and frankly I wouldn't give a damn if it had. I note that most of the criticisms in this thread so far lack direct evidence, and are based on anecdotal evidence and assumptions. This is typical of criticism founded on right-wing newspaper scaremongering.
Some actual facts: women earn less than men across the board, despite in most countries having either the same or slightly higher academic qualifications than men. They take more part-time work because there is still the assumption that they should be caring for children, and they have to take time off work to do so.
The vast majority of politicians and powerful people in business are men, and in an age where lobbying has largely replaced democracy, that screws us all.
America sees vicious debates, even murder committed over questions of what a woman can and cannot do with her own body.
I hardly need to go into the vacuous manner in which women are portrayed in virtually every medium. Apply the Bechdel test to videogames (hell, just watch the Extra Credits episode on this subject) or indeed any medium and it is very hard to find a human portrayal of a woman, rather than a woman from a man's point of view. Some of you may be familiar with the recent trial of Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher. All of the speculation in the media was focused on and tainted by the notion that Miss Knox had bought condoms and might have (shock horror!) had a sex life - so she must have been guilty! She may have smoked spliffs with her boyfriend! She owned a vibrator! All of this quasi-medieval witchunting continued AFTER the Italian courts had freed her. The assumption was that a sexually-active female was somehow wrong and therefore guilty was genuinely disturbing.
Women are not equal, they never have been. And the weird anti-feminist backlash that spills over the internet genuinely scares me. Especially in these forums, which at least most of the time are more intelligent than the average internet discussion.
Before anyone makes any judgements on this, please go out and read some basic feminist texts. A solid, but readable and succinct introduction is Kate Banyard's "The Equality Illusion". Unless you have read arguments on both sides of a debate, you cannot assess their merits.
Some actual facts: women earn less than men across the board, despite in most countries having either the same or slightly higher academic qualifications than men. They take more part-time work because there is still the assumption that they should be caring for children, and they have to take time off work to do so.
The vast majority of politicians and powerful people in business are men, and in an age where lobbying has largely replaced democracy, that screws us all.
America sees vicious debates, even murder committed over questions of what a woman can and cannot do with her own body.
I hardly need to go into the vacuous manner in which women are portrayed in virtually every medium. Apply the Bechdel test to videogames (hell, just watch the Extra Credits episode on this subject) or indeed any medium and it is very hard to find a human portrayal of a woman, rather than a woman from a man's point of view. Some of you may be familiar with the recent trial of Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher. All of the speculation in the media was focused on and tainted by the notion that Miss Knox had bought condoms and might have (shock horror!) had a sex life - so she must have been guilty! She may have smoked spliffs with her boyfriend! She owned a vibrator! All of this quasi-medieval witchunting continued AFTER the Italian courts had freed her. The assumption was that a sexually-active female was somehow wrong and therefore guilty was genuinely disturbing.
Women are not equal, they never have been. And the weird anti-feminist backlash that spills over the internet genuinely scares me. Especially in these forums, which at least most of the time are more intelligent than the average internet discussion.
Before anyone makes any judgements on this, please go out and read some basic feminist texts. A solid, but readable and succinct introduction is Kate Banyard's "The Equality Illusion". Unless you have read arguments on both sides of a debate, you cannot assess their merits.
Men still get paid more, and are significantly more likely to get promotions, in pretty much all societies, even modern liberal ones.
I don't know about everywhere else, but here in Denmark, there has been talk about a mandatory amount of women employees. For example, a company would be required to employ so and so many women, or a certain percentage, or the government would poke them with a pointy stick or whatever.
It just seems daft. This isn't equal rights, this is women being favoured over men, and while the system hasn't been put into any kind of action yet, and likely never will, it's plain stupid to do something like this.
It just seems daft. This isn't equal rights, this is women being favoured over men, and while the system hasn't been put into any kind of action yet, and likely never will, it's plain stupid to do something like this.
In many ways, yes.
In other ways, no.
Hard to tell who's "better off". I'd just wish we would actively work towards equality rather than introducing shit like a requiring firms to hire women over men for no other reason than those double X's.
Equality or no, there's still a cultural difference between men and women in western society, and that's okay.
In other ways, no.
Hard to tell who's "better off". I'd just wish we would actively work towards equality rather than introducing shit like a requiring firms to hire women over men for no other reason than those double X's.
Equality or no, there's still a cultural difference between men and women in western society, and that's okay.
There is a very big danger in inferring cause from measured effect. Perhaps there are many more male CEO's, but we can't be so lazy as to just assume that this is because of sex discrimination. Men and women are different, men are much more aggressively ambitious and are much more likely to want to take their career to the very top.. thats my theory anyway.DaJoW said:
Shold we force balance where there is no natural balance by actively discriminationg against men (or against women for that mater)? Why would we do that, It makes no logical sense.
If it can be proven than this disparity in number is directly and irrefutably down to sex descrimination then fine, something needs to be done about it.. but it is very very lazy and very very dangerous to just look at the figures and make that assumption.
You hear a lot of people say "affirmative action is hurting men, the feminists have made it so it's easier for women now than men!". It's the same thing as when people claim that racism has been completely eliminated, and "reverse racism" (which in itself is a nonsensical word) has made the white man at a disadvantage. Well, first of all, feminism isn't about pushing women to be more important or treated better than men, it's about equality, so if it were the case that women had it easier, feminists would technically still be pissed.
Secondly, the issue with these statements is that as a man, or a white person, you are pretty much blind to the inherent advantages of your sex/race. All you see is your life changing for the worse while everyone else seemingly gets "free passes" and "handouts". If you take a step back and look at society as a whole, and the institutions and social norms that govern our lives, they are rooted in patriarchy and in white supremacy. This isn't necessarily intentional, either, it's just remnants of the past that aren't so easy to change.
One of the biggest obstacles to remedying institutional problems like this is in fact that the privileged groups (whites, males, etc) either refuse to see the problem, or don't see it as their responsibility.
Secondly, the issue with these statements is that as a man, or a white person, you are pretty much blind to the inherent advantages of your sex/race. All you see is your life changing for the worse while everyone else seemingly gets "free passes" and "handouts". If you take a step back and look at society as a whole, and the institutions and social norms that govern our lives, they are rooted in patriarchy and in white supremacy. This isn't necessarily intentional, either, it's just remnants of the past that aren't so easy to change.
One of the biggest obstacles to remedying institutional problems like this is in fact that the privileged groups (whites, males, etc) either refuse to see the problem, or don't see it as their responsibility.