Sexuality in Mass Effect

[Jory]

While I'd normally agree with you, I think you have to consider this:

Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect are actually really different in how they approach the idea of the protagonist. While DA:O is of the old-school *you are this person* mold in which you get to completely customize your player character's appearance and choose his or her dialogue word for word and completely control his or her actions, Mass Effect approaches it differently. Consider:

The dialogue wheel basically wrests some control away from the player. You get to choose the general direction of what Shepard is going to say, but he's gonna say it however he wants.

Ditto for having an actual voice. He doesn't sound like you imagined he would or how you'd like him to? Too bad.

The paragon/renegade actions. You don't know if he's gonna merely give a guy a push or shoot him in the head. More moments in which you don't have complete control.

The point I'm trying to make is, I think Bioware created a very specific character and, more so than completely control it, they want you to just experience it. (This, by the way, is *the* thing that makes Mass Effect so great.) And, since their conception of Shepard wasn't of a gay one, then you're not given that option. And, yes, I think this explains the difference between the male/female possibilities as well. I think it's pretty obvious that they consider the male Shepard the "canonical" choice--that that's the character they imagined and created. So the female Shepard is already "off-canon," so to speak, so you might as well do whatever with it.

This is the best point in here. He is a character that they have written, he actually HAS a character. Everyone in Mass Effect is so well characterised, that when it came round to putting it all together, it just turned out that none of them were gay. I'm all for equality and all, but if it means being forced to change a well crafted character to suit a demographic then it isn't worth it.

+ The lesbian option is clearly just put in for men who want to watch digital lesbian relations.

 

[Revolutionary]

I think sex is OK in games, but is better left to other mediums

 

[Mother Yeti]

After a couple Mass Effect sessions, I got to thinking about the romance options. I'm sure this has occurred to others, but still.

A female Shepard can romance both sexes. You can roleplay her as straight, gay, or somewhere in between; it's totally up to the player whom she's into. A male Shepard, on the other hand, can only romance women. Even if you WANT to play a gay ManShep, you're simply not allowed.

After Dragon Age, which allowed the PC to fall just about anywhere on the sexuality spectrum, I was sort of hoping that Bioware had come to understand that their audience is not entirely male and not entirely hetero. But no, apparently not. And as a gay girl gamer, I think that really sucks.

What do you think?

Are you talking about Mass Effect 1 or 2?

Because Mass Effect 1 was before Dragon Age, and in Mass Effect 2 i don't think you can play as a lesbian.

But throwing all that aside, why. Why is there such a huge need to represent all possible sexuality scenarios. Why do you feel offended that you can't see all types of sex in a videogame that has sex. Why, in the name of whoever, does a company have to include a sex scene to indirectly proclaim that a nice group whose numbers i can count on my fingers has a solid standpoint in their game, just because they included another similar scene but for a broader audience, considering that the game wasn't even about that in the first place.

So just because Dragon Age had it, why does every BioWare game have to have gay sex. Risking moderator wrath, i'll have to pull out the "you just want attention" card here.

The other poster eloquently summed up the appropriate reaction to your post. I'll just say that there are easier ways for a woman on the internet to find attention than by starting gender and sexuality discussions on a gaming forum. Just sayin'.

 

[Revolutionary]

Actually there was a thing like this in ENN except satyrical...and about bestiality.

 

[AC Medina]

While I'd normally agree with you, I think you have to consider this:

Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect are actually really different in how they approach the idea of the protagonist. While DA:O is of the old-school *you are this person* mold in which you get to completely customize your player character's appearance and choose his or her dialogue word for word and completely control his or her actions, Mass Effect approaches it differently. Consider:

The dialogue wheel basically wrests some control away from the player. You get to choose the general direction of what Shepard is going to say, but he's gonna say it however he wants.

Ditto for having an actual voice. He doesn't sound like you imagined he would or how you'd like him to? Too bad.

The paragon/renegade actions. You don't know if he's gonna merely give a guy a push or shoot him in the head. More moments in which you don't have complete control.

The point I'm trying to make is, I think Bioware created a very specific character and, more so than completely control it, they want you to just experience it. (This, by the way, is *the* thing that makes Mass Effect so great.) And, since their conception of Shepard wasn't of a gay one, then you're not given that option. And, yes, I think this explains the difference between the male/female possibilities as well. I think it's pretty obvious that they consider the male Shepard the "canonical" choice--that that's the character they imagined and created. So the female Shepard is already "off-canon," so to speak, so you might as well do whatever with it.

This is the best point in here. He is a character that they have written, he actually HAS a character. Everyone in Mass Effect is so well characterised, that when it came round to putting it all together, it just turned out that none of them were gay. I'm all for equality and all, but if it means being forced to change a well crafted character to suit a demographic then it isn't worth it.

+ The lesbian option is clearly just put in for men who want to watch digital lesbian relations.

Sigh...I get recognized for making the best point but you screw up the quote thing so it appears someone else wrote it!

Heh, no worries, I really don't care. Thanks for the comment.

 

[Pyode]

You can be a lesbian in Mass Effect 2.

Not true. There is no lesbian option in Mass Effect 2. Hell, there wasn't even one in the origional. I dont feel like typing it again, so I'll quote myself.

Asari are mono-gendered. They are not actually "female" so it is impossible for them to be lesbians.

Before anyone gets on my case, yes, I realize that the mono-gendered thing is a huge cop-out. Bioware wanted to be able to have some girl on girl action without having to worry about too much media backlash, but that doesn't change the fact that, as of now, neither Fem or Male Shepard have had gay sex. (Kelly doesn't count, you can't have sex with her)

By the way, I'm only responding to that part of your post because it's the only part that actually made any sense.

Oh, except for the part about the fingers, which is just kind of weird because I had never met anybody with hundreds of millions of fingers before. What kind of creature are you?

Um.. what about the rest of his comment didn't make sense? It sounded perfectly reasonable to me. So, could you please elaborate?

And as for the "fingers" thing, it was pretty obvious he was using a figure of speech, so to try to discredit him for that is kinda weak.

 

[Mother Yeti]

While I'd normally agree with you, I think you have to consider this:

Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect are actually really different in how they approach the idea of the protagonist. While DA:O is of the old-school *you are this person* mold in which you get to completely customize your player character's appearance and choose his or her dialogue word for word and completely control his or her actions, Mass Effect approaches it differently. Consider:

The dialogue wheel basically wrests some control away from the player. You get to choose the general direction of what Shepard is going to say, but he's gonna say it however he wants.

Ditto for having an actual voice. He doesn't sound like you imagined he would or how you'd like him to? Too bad.

The paragon/renegade actions. You don't know if he's gonna merely give a guy a push or shoot him in the head. More moments in which you don't have complete control.

The point I'm trying to make is, I think Bioware created a very specific character and, more so than completely control it, they want you to just experience it. (This, by the way, is *the* thing that makes Mass Effect so great.) And, since their conception of Shepard wasn't of a gay one, then you're not given that option. And, yes, I think this explains the difference between the male/female possibilities as well. I think it's pretty obvious that they consider the male Shepard the "canonical" choice--that that's the character they imagined and created. So the female Shepard is already "off-canon," so to speak, so you might as well do whatever with it.

This is the best point in here. He is a character that they have written, he actually HAS a character. Everyone in Mass Effect is so well characterised, that when it came round to putting it all together, it just turned out that none of them were gay. I'm all for equality and all, but if it means being forced to change a well crafted character to suit a demographic then it isn't worth it.

+ The lesbian option is clearly just put in for men who want to watch digital lesbian relations.

This is a good point, and I agree with Journeythroughhell that Mass Effect is significantly less deep from a roleplaying standpoint than Dragon Age. Both games are very different in character and tone anyway, so maybe it was unfair of me to equate them.

 

[Jory]

*snip*

Haha my bad, just got up, went on a random deleting spree.

All is fixed

 

[snow]

Well dur! Don't you realize that in the future, the gays were tired of people discriminating on them so they moved to a different universe?

Liar.. The very smart people that did a mass boycott of Avatar say that the future is not straight! It's transexual!!

(which still boggles my mind because.. Transexual is a gender preference, not a sexual preference...)

OT: I don't know... This falls under a lot of topics that I found over the years where the gay/lesbian crowd has cried fowl just because a storyline in a movie, book, or game didn't consist of a homosexual character.

I guess I'll have to repeat for the 100th time... If the people who wrote the script didn't want a homosexual character in their story, then tough cookies. Want a storyline with a gay character so badly? Write one yourself...

Not trying to be rude to the gay community in any way, but ever since the push to make homosexuals more acceptable by putting gay characters in tv shows and movies... They just feel... Out of place. Some shows and stories that I have seen, didn't even need a reason to expose the sexuality of a certain character, but since they did so anyway, that character felt out of place with the rest of the story just because the writers didn't want to be called homophobes..

I'm not saying ALL gay characters in EVERYTHING are out of place.. Just the few that are sprinkled in randomly to appeal to the masses.

Not every story needs to be sprinkled with a certain race/ sexual preference/ whatever... If the storyline does not need it, then it shouldn't be put in to appeal to the masses... If you don't like it, there's always either going into the business yourself so you can write stories the way YOU want them.. Or there's always fan fiction or fan art.


I'm not homophobic.. I have gay and lesbian friends whom' I hang out with almost on a daily basis. I just don't agree that developers and writers need to start putting certain characters in their stories just because they know there's a group of people who will shit bricks if they aren't in there.. My gay and lesbian buddies also agree with this before anyone asks...

 

[Mother Yeti]

-snip-

I 100% agree. To be honest, I really don't understand what the problem is here. It's obvious that Bioware isn't entirely opposed to having a gay or bisexual character, so it stands to reason that if they didn't put the option in this game because they didn't feel like it. They don't always have to cater to every demographic. Let them tell the story that they want to tell.

Of course, the main problem with the OP's complaint is that there technically is no lesbian option either. Asari are mono-gendered. They are not actually "female" so it is impossible for them to be lesbians.

Before anyone gets on my case, yes, I realize that the mono-gendered thing is a huge cop-out. Bioware wanted to be able to have some girl on girl action without having to worry about too much media backlash, but that doesn't change the fact that, as of now, neither Fem or Male Shepard have had gay sex. (Kelly doesn't count, you cant have sex with her)

There is no "problem". I just think it's interesting that you can play lesbian but you can't play gay, and what that implies. I think it's interesting that people are reacting so aggressively. I know I said it "sucks" in my OP, but that's just hyperbole.

As for the Asari, you said it yourself, the monogender thing is utter bullshit. Asari are female. They look female, have feminine voices and names, are able to give birth, and refer to themselves using the feminine pronoun. The sex scenes between an Asari and FemShep are absolutely meant to be understood as lesbian, so if that's the "main problem" with my complaint, then I'm feeling pretty airtight right now.

 

[Deleted]

Well dur! Don't you realize that in the future, the gays were tired of people discriminating on them so they moved to a different universe?

Made me laugh, great way to start my day haha thanks.

OP Why is it a big deal. Honestly when will all this "gay people need gay characters" unless YOU are gay you can't speak for them.

As a man with an incredibly large hat I want my in game character to have a huge hat too. Or I'm into Bondage, so I want the ingame sex to be chained up whipping fun. When will they accommodate that for me? I shouldn't care.

But oh no, I don't agree with what a gay person says I'm homophobic. I'm not angry that there are no gays in my media, when I obviously should be. No gay people in a video game is a bad thing and we must fix this.

 

[AC Medina]

You can be a lesbian in Mass Effect 2.

Not true. There is no lesbian option in Mass Effect 2. Hell, there wasn't even one in the origional. I dont feel like typing it again, so I'll quote myself.

Asari are mono-gendered. They are not actually "female" so it is impossible for them to be lesbians.

Before anyone gets on my case, yes, I realize that the mono-gendered thing is a huge cop-out. Bioware wanted to be able to have some girl on girl action without having to worry about too much media backlash, but that doesn't change the fact that, as of now, neither Fem or Male Shepard have had gay sex. (Kelly doesn't count, you can't have sex with her)

By the way, I'm only responding to that part of your post because it's the only part that actually made any sense.

Oh, except for the part about the fingers, which is just kind of weird because I had never met anybody with hundreds of millions of fingers before. What kind of creature are you?

Um.. what about the rest of his comment didn't make sense? It sounded perfectly reasonable to me. So, could you please elaborate?

And as for the "fingers" thing, it was pretty obvious he was using a figure of speech, so to try to discredit him for that is kinda weak.

"Kelly doesn't count, you can't have sex with her" is a ridiculous argument. So a lesbian who's a virgin isn't a lesbian? A female Shepard can actively show interest and attraction in a female character. So, she's either a lesbian (or bisexual) or a drunk college girl, take your pick. And, yes, that was a joke.

Also, I discredit him for the fingers thing because it's a figure of speech meant to portray a minority as so miniscule as to be unimportant or unworthy of consideration. There are, again, hundreds of millions of gay, lesbian (and otherwise non-straight) people. So it's a moronic figure of speech to use unless you're trying to be purposefully derisive.

As for the rest of the post, I just thought it was an especially poorly-written version of "silly minorities, there they go trying to feel represented again." And I suppose you're allowed to think that way, but then I'm allowed to call it a shitty way to think.

 

[Mother Yeti]

snip

Again, I'm not trying to push an agenda here. I'm just saying that the game allows for straight female, bi female, gay female, alien-sexin' female ... versus straight male. The romance options are a bit imbalanced, is my point.

 

[Deleted]

Agreed with the OP. I was terribly disappointed about that. I mean, jesus, 7 (8 if you count Madame Deadly Vagina) new romance options and not one queer male possibility? Pretty weak, right there.

I agree, this game isn't as good as it could be, it needed more dicks.

 

[Section-9]

I think it's more of a call back to the old Captain Kirk style of integrating with alien species.

I don't think Bioware are homophobes though, they just know that considering the controversy about the first one, that including the option to be an active homosexual male in that would lead to a total furore, such is the double standards of the knee-jerk crowd in the mainstream media.

Also, I could imagine a situation where they might even face legal action by backwards parents, concerned that their child is playing 'This sick filth' as they would most probably call it.

I think they're just erring on the side of caution, they don't want any more bad rep for the series.

Or this...

If sex is worse than violence, and A LOT of parents(namely overbearing mothers who complain about videogames) hate gays, then gay sex in a videogame would be the trifecta that would send these women on a rampage.

Edit: Also, Michael Atkinson. Probably, he's a homophobe... Just saying, in case you want to start rumors.

I'm gonna sit out on the real battle here, but what about DLC? I mean, if there's time constraints or worries of mommies getting crazy with the BanHammer, why doesn't BioWare make separate downloadable content that allows the full array of same-sex couples? They could stand behind the partition that it's not included in the game unless people want it to be and that parents should moniter what their children download, or for the original matter of it being in the game, play. Mass Effect is an M game and I know, as kids (Hell, I'm 15 and been playing GTA since I was about 6), we all play M games. But if mommies and daddies can handle us playing GTA and Leisure Suit Larry, why the hell can they scream for people playing with gay-lesbian relationships? Censor their interaction if you want. If not, then it's their own discretion. BE THE PARENT.

As for the media, I should say that most of the gay-bashing reports are focused on Prop 8's appeal in Federal Court. If that can get there, then I think we shouldn't worry too horribly over video games. I should also remind people that one of the most popular musicians out there, Mr. For Your Entertainment, is also sucking back the homosexual media. With these two specifics holding current media standard, I don't think Mass Effect 2 having gay love would be the most-focused issue.

The only real thing I see as a stopper for the possibility of DLC add-ins or whatever else is, as earlier mentioned, Voice Acting refusal.

 

[AC Medina]

I AM NOT PUSHING AN AGENDA. I AM NOT TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO LOVE GAY PEOPLE OR EVEN AGREE WITH ME. I AM NOT ASKING FOR A GAY CHARACTER TO BE SHOEHORNED INTO THE GAME FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEING GAY. I AM SIMPLY NOTING THAT WHILE THERE IS A RANGE OF SEXUALITIES POSSIBLE FOR A FEMALE CHARACTER, A MALE CHARACTER CAN ONLY BE HETEROSEXUAL, AND THAT SEEMS LIKE A STEP BACK FOR BIOWARE. I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING! IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE, BUT PLEASE REFRAIN FROM BUILDING STRAWMEN! THANKS!

...would it help if they're gay strawmen?

I kid, of course. I kid because I love.

 

[Velvo]

I'm still working on my male-Shepard/Joker slashfic set in zero-G. Just imagining Seth Green voice acting it is tantalizing! It's very dramatic and emotional. Joker's all like "I've never been with a lady cause I'm so fragile..." and Shepard interjects, "lets BANG!" Extremely graphic scenes ensue.

But in all seriousness, it is a crazy double standard. The Sims totally was ahead of its time in that respect. Gender didn't really matter other than for reproduction. Love is love! Crotches are dirty!

 

[Kurokami]

After a couple Mass Effect sessions, I got to thinking about the romance options. I'm sure this has occurred to others, but still.

A female Shepard can romance both sexes. You can roleplay her as straight, gay, or somewhere in between; it's totally up to the player whom she's into. A male Shepard, on the other hand, can only romance women. Even if you WANT to play a gay ManShep, you're simply not allowed.

After Dragon Age, which allowed the PC to fall just about anywhere on the sexuality spectrum, I was sort of hoping that Bioware had come to understand that their audience is not entirely male and not entirely hetero. But no, apparently not. And as a gay girl gamer, I think that really sucks.

What do you think?

Considering the whole concept of space, aliens and all that that Mass Effect builds itself around, I don't see why male homosexual pursuits should be halted when players are allowed to have sex with other species.

Also, congratulations on being a gay girl gamer. Your kind is either rare or very well hidden.

 

[Deleted]

I am gay, as I full-disclosed in my OP.

There's nothing in your post that hasn't been mentioned and discussed a hundred times already, so I'll use this space to say as clearly as I can:

I AM NOT PUSHING AN AGENDA. I AM NOT TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO LOVE GAY PEOPLE OR EVEN AGREE WITH ME. I AM NOT ASKING FOR A GAY CHARACTER TO BE SHOEHORNED INTO THE GAME FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEING GAY. I AM SIMPLY NOTING THAT WHILE THERE IS A RANGE OF SEXUALITIES POSSIBLE FOR A FEMALE CHARACTER, A MALE CHARACTER CAN ONLY BE HETEROSEXUAL, AND THAT SEEMS LIKE A STEP BACK FOR BIOWARE. I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING! IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE, BUT PLEASE REFRAIN FROM BUILDING STRAWMEN! THANKS!

Okay then, by admitting that its a step back to not put gay people, you're saying the game is better with them. And she's not really 'female' if I understand, but yeah I see what you mean.

Here's the thing, if Bioware was mainly female, they would have added more gay choices and less lesbian choices, and you know this. They didn't put gay choices because they knew the media coverage would make it look like its the best feature of the game. "omg they put a gay couple in a game I'm going to buy it", I don't think Bioware wants publicity by being 'edgy' like that.

And sorry for assuming things about you, I now understand that you're just making an observation and not want anything to be changed to your will

 

[LiquidGrape]

I never quite understood Bioware's reasoning behind omitting same-sex relations.
For being a future in which human conflicts have ascended from simple racial and sexual issues to matters of a galactic scale, it's a very coy and conservative future indeed.
Cowardly, Bioware. Cowardly.
If only Gene Roddenberry had lived a few centuries more...polymorphous bisexuality would be the norm.

[EspirituExterminatus:] You're really not making yourself out in a flattering light.