Sexy Characters

hermes

New member
Mar 2, 2009
3,865
0
0
PunkRex said:
I wouldn't agree that characters that have sexualised personalities were necessarily bad as some people have far larger labidos than others, at least I think that's what you were implying with the paragraph that mentioned Bayonetta... not that i'm holding up Bayonetta as a well balanced person, she's played for laughs after all.
I would say Bayonetta is a far better example, because she never feels insecure about her sexuality and her femininity: she is sexy, she knows it and its part of her power. Compare that with Yahtzee's example of women with impossibly revealing and tight clothes that, in any other sense, behave like they would get offended if someone points it out (for example, Ivy from Soulcalibur)
 

FallenMessiah88

So fucking thrilled to be here!
Jan 8, 2010
470
0
0
That's a pretty interesting way of looking at it. It makes sense that sex represents such a big part of our culture. Yahtzee has mentioned before that sex seems to be one of the topics that games are still struggling with. I don't know if Killer is Dead is the best example of a more mature way of looking at sex in games, but perhaps it could serve as a small step forward.
 

Grach

New member
Aug 31, 2012
339
0
0
I feel kind of weirded out with this EP. Maybe it's because I'm extremely repressed.
 

Geo Da Sponge

New member
May 14, 2008
2,611
0
0
This whole Extra Punctuation really reminds me of the OXM Breakdown on sex in video games which becomes relevant now and then:


Especially the bit in that video at 2:15 where they make fun of the sex clubs in Saint's Row 3. That video also gives me the perfect phrase to describe it, of having "bit off more sex than they're comfortable chewing."

That's why I was really curious about the fact that you can get into actual relationships in SR4 (or at least have sex with team mates). I like to imagine the moment that was suggested; one designers leaning over a sketchboard, drawing giant dildo bats and bondage outfits for the game. Suddenly one of the others says "Hey, how about we actually put sex in the game?", and the first designer's eyes go wide and he accidentally pushes his pencil right through the paper he's working on. Except we're living in the 21st century (as the soundtrack for SR3 was keen to remind me), so he probably had a stylus and tablet rather than pencil and paper. Whatever.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
0
0
Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Sexualisation is part of the same obnoxious attitude in today's entertainment media that has come to redefine the word 'mature' to mean 'violence and tits depicted with the giggling red-faced attitude of fourteen-year-olds.
Which strikes me as the exact opposite of mature.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
3,847
0
0
Silentpony said:
Regarding the topic of sex in video games, I read an article - maybe even on the escapist - where the writer said the Mass Effect games were way more pornographic than any of the strange Japanese games or GTA styled games. Simply put, the emotional connection you made with a love interest was so powerful that the love scenes meant something, rather than banging a hooker and shooting her afterwards. Personally I think Tali or Liara are one hundred times sexier than any of the big-boobed bimbos in any sandbox you care to mention.
Hmm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography
Pornography (often abbreviated as "porn" or "porno" in informal usage) (Greek: πορνεία, porneia, fornication) is the explicit portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexual gratification. Pornography may use a variety of media, including books, magazines, postcards, photos, sculpture, drawing, painting, animation, sound recording, film, video, and video games. The term applies to the depiction of the act rather than the act itself, and so does not include live exhibitions like sex shows and striptease. A pornographic model poses for still photographs. A pornographic actor or porn star performs in pornographic films. If dramatic skills are not involved, a performer in porn films may be also be called a model.

Pornography is often distinguished from erotica, which consists of the portrayal of sexuality with high-art aspirations, focusing also on feelings and emotions, while pornography involves the depiction of acts in a sensational manner, with the entire focus on the physical act, so as to arouse quick intense reactions.
In short, you and whoever wrote that article are factually incorrect. Mass Effect is not pornographic at all. As stated in the second paragraph, the word you're looking for is erotic, not pornographic. Mass Effect is more erotic than GTA hooker encounters or Japanese porn games.

Let's try to remember to use words correctly and also remember that we can look words up using this magical internet thing we're on to make sure we're using them correctly.

canadamus_prime said:
Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Sexualisation is part of the same obnoxious attitude in today's entertainment media that has come to redefine the word 'mature' to mean 'violence and tits depicted with the giggling red-faced attitude of fourteen-year-olds.
Which strikes me as the exact opposite of mature.
That's because it is. That was his entire point. If mature actually meant "violence and tits depicted with the giggling red-faced attitude of fourteen year olds", he wouldn't have preceded that with "redefine the word 'mature'".

Does anyone even understand the English language anymore? It's starting to feel like having these kinds of discussions is pointless because most of the people reading (or watching as the case is with so many web shows) don't pay attention to or don't understand what's being said and just start substituting the actual meaning with whatever they think it means and then the entire point the original author was trying to make gets lost.
 

Rebel_Raven

New member
Jul 24, 2011
1,606
0
0
Very well put Yahtzee. Definitely put in a way I hadn't been able to, and in a good way, IMO.

The whole agency with the sexuality is pretty important. Just being sexy vs being sexy in context. Stuff like that.
 

flaviok79

New member
Feb 22, 2011
188
0
0
I never thought before of iron bikinis as chastity belts. You gave me food for thought. What immediately springs to my mind are cosplaying girls, half naked, who get offended upon being ogled. You are a very deep character, Yahtzee.
 

infohippie

New member
Oct 1, 2009
2,369
0
0
Shjade said:
Thanatos2k said:
Watch any anime for 5 minutes and you'll be overwhelmed by sexualized yet insecure characters.
Oh, ignorant generalizations. Don't ever change.

Tell you what, I'd like you point out the sexualized yet insecure characters present in anything made by Studio Ghibli for me.

I'll wait.
Totoro, of course. Can't you tell? He's gagging for it, but too nervous to tell Satsuki how much she turns him on. ;)
 

Steve the Pocket

New member
Mar 30, 2009
1,649
0
0
Other than applying to women in armored bikinis and being aimed at 14-year-old boys, your definition of "sexualized" is not like the one I'm familiar with. For one thing, I think most 14-year-old boys would happily have actual sex if anyone were desperate enough to offer it, and characters designed to appeal to them would likely be willing to have sex with their avatars if that weren't culturally taboo in many profitable markets. But that wouldn't make them any less "sexualized." The sexual aspects of their character still exist to give a cheap thrill to the player as opposed to driving narrative or making them more... well, fleshed-out, if you'll pardon the pun... as characters. That's the main distinction I see in feminist circles.

And unfortunately, as long as those 14-year-olds are the target market of most of the medium, there's always going to be that degree of doubt as to what the real motivation was behind a female character's sexuality. (Just look at what happened with Sucker Punch.) Most likely the only safe bet for any developer who actually cares enough to avoid accusations of sexualization will be to just leave sex and sexiness out of the equation altogether. The question is whether the industry will be able to make the transition from cheap sexualization to mature sexuality before social pressure forces them to resort to just "covering up."
 

briankoontz

New member
May 17, 2010
656
0
0
The problem is that there aren't actual human beings in video games - there are mostly victims, some superheroes, none of the characters have much vocabulary, rarely do any have real emotion. Creatures who aren't real can't be sexy - the most they can do is APPEAR sexy - like a sad woman pretending a boob job will make her happier. Calling Lara Croft sexy is missing the point that she's an archaeologist who murderers hundreds of people and destroys the very archaeological site that she's supposed to be preserving. That's not someone I want to have anything to do with regardless of what she *looks like*. That's a failure of both the duties of an archeologist and the morality of being human. Likewise, Bayonetta is a superhero, she's not human so she ought not be sexy to *human beings*.

Developers don't take their creations very seriously. Great writers personally connect with their fictional constructs to the point where they become real to the writer - they then present them as real people in the novel, giving them and their readers the ultimate respect.

Cynical video game developers pander to what they suppose gamers want and have no respect for their characters or their players. So we get dehumanized nobles who "save the world" by being granted superhero powers by the developer - if they really respected their characters they would present them as human beings - no superpowers, real problems and having to face the consequences of one's actions, no reload function to "make every wrong right".

Consider the recent Avengers movie. The characters don't take matters too seriously, and why should they, when they are mega super-powered and have the privilege of being the protagonists in a Hollywood movie, so of course things will turn out well for them. Despite the "fate of the world at stake", it was more like they were playing throughout the film. Playing is what people do when there's nothing at stake.

Human beings deal with joy, despair, failure, hope, love, and forgiveness, for starters. Game players deal with murder strategy, inventory management, reload function judgement, fun maximization.

Compare the connection that different artistic mediums have to what it means to be human. Great books are those which make us more human. They teach us about the world and ourselves. Great movies and television shows likewise. Comic books and video games are the first artistic mediums to not be about humanity, but superpower. Games only rarely teach us about ourselves or the world. They mostly teach us what it would be like to have superpowers, to have a stellar physique despite zero gym time, to be able to go back in time to any point even after death, to not have to eat, rest, take a shit, to not have friends or family, to only talk to people in the service of saving the world, to be happy about shooting a gun continuously murdering hundreds, sprinting like the wind, slashing one's way through thousands of enemies, being declared Glorious Hero and smiling at another fake universe saved, more unreal people pleased in another plastic world.

People find beings similar to themselves sexy. Humans like other humans. Superheroes like superheroes. So if game developers want to appeal to human beings, instead of the superheroes they crave as customers but which they simply aren't going to find in the real world, then they need to put real humans in their games, just like every serious writer begins by making his fictional characters real *to himself*, before he can ever make them real to someone else.
 

Lovesfool

New member
Jan 28, 2009
183
0
0
Well, this was a bit unexpected. This is not the usual "extra punctuation" lot.

It much more serious (I mean, truly "serious" and not so much mocking about), it touches upon a real issue and treats it with very insightful and broadly encompassing arguments (lots of big words I just used there).

I must admit, you really nailed it (no pun intended). I really don't have anything to say. You covered all the bases (again, not a pun).

Although it was right in front of my eyes and I was perfectly capable of seeing it, I only now realise that in reality ALL video games simply portray sexuality through the eyes of a 14 y.o. as a de facto point of view to be expected by their audience.

Very well done. Extremely good text this week Mr. Yahtzee.
 

K12

New member
Dec 28, 2012
943
0
0
I've tried to come up with a simple way of distinguishing between sexualised characters and characters who are just sexy or sexual and I think this article has a pretty good way of doing it.

I think the important thing to remember is that sex is between two (or more) people and a sexualised character's sexiness is completely impersonal. They don't flirt or seduce or look like they might want to have sex whith another character, they just present themselves in an eye-catching everyone-pay-attention-to-me way.

When sexual characters try to look sexy it's so they can have sex. Sexualised characters just look sexy as an end in itself.

I think developers might think that they can't have sexy male characters actually have sex because:
a) the player doesn't want to watch because they don't want to have to consider if they're gay or not
b) they don't want to be envious because of all the sex that the player isn't having.

With female characters I think it's just avoiding jealousy from the player (i.e. the weird comments regarding "Remember me")
 

MrMcDoll

New member
Aug 10, 2012
4
0
0
rhodo said:
" what I think is worth a closer examination is the seduction aspect, or 'Gigolo Missions'.

As mentioned in my review, how these work is that curiously named drink of water Mondo Zappa has a date with one of his lady friends, and then seduces them by looking into their eyes a lot and strategically looking away when you want to play hard to get. And also you need to get your own blood flowing by sneaking crafty looks at her tits and thighs whenever she's not looking. Then you give them free shit until they agree to a shag."


Geee, and I was going to try that videogame, too.

So, is this one of those videogames that, as a heterosexual woman, I am not supposed to play?

Lulwot?
So am I as a hetero-sexual man, not supposed to play tomb raider?
Or is it the sex part you can't abide?

Seems a bit precious to act as though the game has a big ol' "no girlz alowwd" sign in badly written 8 year old writing on it, just because you play as a dude who has some sex.

In mass effect, I played as a woman once and banged a dude. I had an hour long shower afterwards and still couldn't wash off the icky girl-POV sex scene germs. I think it was the shame for having played a game in a way that I was not supposed to.
Just like how I wasn't supposed to read twilight...
Dammit, actually nobody is supposed to read that - kinda ruined my own sarcastic examples there.

Oh well, you get the gist.
 

Farther than stars

New member
Jun 19, 2011
1,228
0
0
Moth_Monk said:
Sigmund Freud did a massive disservice to psychology. Now you have people like Yahtzee saying crazy things like that knights who want to avenge their slain loved one are doing because they are "sexually insecure" (<-- what does that even mean) or some shit... *sigh*

Edit: Also, when I was fourteen, I can say unequivocally that when I was a 14 boy, I would have taken up an offer of sex faster than Sonic the Hedgehog can run with power sneakers on.
I wouldn't say that sex has nothing to do with psychology. Sure, Freud was wrong about a lot of things, but he also introduced the concept that sex was a psychological thing and that opened the door to a lot of better science. You can't blame the pioneers of theories for those theories' shortcomings, the same way we don't blame ourselves for all the shortcomings in our own theories.
 

PunkRex

New member
Feb 19, 2010
2,533
0
0
hermes200 said:
PunkRex said:
I wouldn't agree that characters that have sexualised personalities were necessarily bad as some people have far larger labidos than others, at least I think that's what you were implying with the paragraph that mentioned Bayonetta... not that i'm holding up Bayonetta as a well balanced person, she's played for laughs after all.
I would say Bayonetta is a far better example, because she never feels insecure about her sexuality and her femininity: she is sexy, she knows it and its part of her power. Compare that with Yahtzee's example of women with impossibly revealing and tight clothes that, in any other sense, behave like they would get offended if someone points it out (for example, Ivy from Soulcalibur)
I think I understood that part and i'd agree that Bayonetta is comfortable with her sexuality, what I meant by unbalanced is that I think she's 'unhinged'.

A little coocoo if you catch my drift.