Shaky Cam Games

[BloodSquirrel]

I gotta be honest, but I am getting sick of Yahtzee's cynicism and judgmental attitude.

Also, I have no idea what he's talking about when he refers to the "shaky cam" in Castlevania. It was quite obvious in Kane and Lynch 2, but Castlevania's cam was just fixed - it never shook.

P.S. I know he's joking about some bits, but these jokes just aren't that funny anymore.

Some bits? Yahtzee is a comedian. Period. Comedic value aside, his reviews are no more trustworthy or informative than any other opinion you see posted on a forum. These Extra Punctuation articles, where he tries to be more insightful, generally show just how little he knows about what he's talking about.

Case in point- the first Xbox Ninja Gaiden matches his description of "like God of War" almost perfectly, and was released a year earlier.

 

[Wolfram23]

Eh, not the best article, however:

So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies. You might say I'm reading too much into these things, but you have to admit it's definitely true that liking Resident Evil 5 makes you a racist

So I guess it's a good thing I didn't really like God of War 3 (my only GoW experience)?

Shaky cam thing, well in gaming it can have it's uses. I thought in Need for Speed Underground (1 and/or 2) it was great in drag races. NFS: Shift had a pretty good job of making the cam shake and tilt as well, to really put you in the driver's seat. However, it often doesn't make sense. I didn't play Kane & Lynch 2, but it sounds terrible and that camera thing sounds simply retarded. So, while there is a time and place for it, I hope it's not going to be a trend.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

You want me to quote you again? "Yeah, it's a bit obnoxious when he treats something good that you like as though it was a pile of crap. CV is a really good game, and he's gone easier on some legitimately awful games. Oh well. If you read Yahtzee without first eating your spoonful of salt, you're likely to run into this from time to time."

That's two full sentences complaining about how you don't like it when he complains about games you think are good, and doesn't do the same for games that you think aren't.

Sure, you had the parting shot about taking it with a grain of salt, but by that time you've made your point clear, am I right? It's like telling someone "no offense" just before you launch into a 10-minute diatribe of why they're such a horrible person.

Not at all. I was responding to a guy who said he was getting fed up with Yahtzee's cynicism, so I was trying to show a little empathy and suggest that maybe he could avoid the problem in the future with a heaping spoonful of salt.

Based on your posts so far, I think I've at least judged your love for this game, and your failure to understand Yahtzee's hate for it.

What do you mean? What's there to understand, exactly?

That's a subjective issue, I have no problems with that. Now, complaining about how much he hates your game starts to smack of the defensive fanboyism the SSBB crowd was so infamous for.

Bah, what's wrong with people arguing against Yahtzee's points? He himself quotes people from the comment thread and responds to them. I don't see him catching flak for it.

Pardon me if I'm making another misinterpretation of your character here.

Heh, you haven't said anything about my character, but you have misread my reaction.

 

[RockPlazaCentral]

This psychoanalysis thing with video games is kind of fun. I want to give it a shot:

People who like the Uncharted games are clumsy, overweight, reserved, law-abiding citizens who have never taken a vacation in a tropical place.

People who like the Super Mario Games live in drab, gray environments and don't get enough cake.

People who like to go online to kill hundreds of others in an FPS game don't have enough opportunities to kill people in their daily lives.

People who like sandbox games do the exact same thing on a very regimented schedule every single day without variation.

Say, what if you like God of War, but you hate Kratos?

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

"Legitimately awful". See that's the thing, there's very very few games you can say were definitively bad. You might not like them, you might wonder how anyone did. But people do.

Point taken. Even the worst games will usually get a couple of reviewers to hand out a respectable score. Any time that personal taste is a major factor, it's difficult to find the objective perspective. Nevertheless, we can't just throw our hands in the air and give up on critiquing art and entertainment altogether. So there should be an implicit assumption that one's mileage may vary, even as we attempt to evaluate a work.

In the absence of a particular example (which is a level of detail I'm disinclined to pursue), I think that's the most I can say in my defense. Some games, I feel, are legitimately awful. Yahtzee does tend to hate them. And occasionally he'll hate a decent or even good game every bit as much, perhaps owing to some fickle or capricious nature.

My point, really, was just that, while I sympathized with the guy who felt fed up with the cynicism, the reality is that Yahtzee is likely to surprise you in this way from time to time, and it's best to take his views with a grain of salt.

 

[Bootkiller]

Personally I think that a shaky cam can add to the mood, but recent games just haven't been using it properly.

Funny as always, Yahtzee.

 

[Squaseghost]

Hand held style only makes sense in movies, where the audience is totally passive, relative to the action on screen.

 

[Falseprophet]

This is so prominant because it is the most popular version of the three act story structure. It's called Mythic story telling and almost always involved reluctant protagonists who are drawn into a conflict for personal reasons at the closing of the first act. Almost every game/movie/book with a story follows this method, from Saving Private Ryan to Star Wars. This method of story telling lends itself well to games because the three act structure offers a sense of progress as the stroy advances.

I'm less of a fan of Mythic storytelling these days, but when it's done properly, the protagonist realizes somewhere around Act 2 that the stakes are much higher than his own problems and becomes a true hero. But that wouldn't mesh with the kind of moody antihero protagonists that are all the rage these days, so the caring about other people part tends to get dropped.

In other words, the story should be, "You got in this to save your girlfriend, but you realized as long as the Dark Lord is around, no one's spouse or child or parents are safe, and someone has to put a stop to him," not "You saved your girlfriend, and in so doing saved the world, even though that wasn't your intention."

 

[duchaked]

yes...playing through RE5 I was totally going "oh my gosh I love killing black people" the whole time
/sarcasm
(more like "oh my gosh Wesker is too cool-CRAP stop kicking my butt!")

but yeah, enough with the God of War comparisons
heck, I'd like to see some DMC or Ninja Gaiden ones being used
altho...my friend and I both found that he preferred the combat in DMC and I preferred Ninja Gaiden (I wanted, or was used to, the X&Y fast/strong attack and a block button system), so even both games are different enough despite both being in the same ish genre (God of War can fall under the "we love QTEs!" hack and slash)

I loved the camera in Halo Reach...yeah it's weird that I mention THAT from a Halo game, but Bungie did something new with it
it wasn't shaky, but it was made to be like an actual person was there filming it. characters will walk in front of the camera, some blocking action if you're familiar with theatre concepts
just thought it was a nice touch

but yeah...too much shaking and I think my minor motion sickness would start to kick in >:[

 

[duchaked]

oh btw, Yahtzee, I know you're a British guy living in Australia but...in case you haven't realized, the douchebaggery in American political parties has evened out with both Democrats and Republicans (or in my opinion, both sounds have bounced back and forth fighting for 1st place in the jerkhole olympics)
not the same kind of assholery, but you know...both in their own ways :/
just sayin'

...lol probably coulda said that in a more educated sounding manner (albeit less blunt), but friendly discussions of politics is unseen on the Internet so it's whatever

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[taltamir]

@Yahtzee Croshaw: For a "British born Australian" you certainly spend a whole lot of time ragging on the US republican party... A huge percentage of your reviews include direct references to republicans and their demonization, and yet australian and british politics are suprisngly absent (well, you once complained about an aussia prick who hates games; but that is pretty much it)

Moreover, you always grossly misrepresent both republican and conservative views (there is a difference), as well as facts (facts are not views).

I expect that the only response I will get is personal attacks, suggesting that I am an uneducated, dumb, hick, inbred, republican, WASP, rich, etc... I should point out that I am none of the above. For example, I am a libertarian atheist... You don't have to be a republican to disapprove of strawmen.

Finally, you are an entertainer, yet you don't seem to realize that those politician jokes aren't funny. A good portion of people find them offensive or misinformed, the rest mostly find them not funny or even downright depressing (if they agree with you, its damn depressing to be reminded of, especially when coming to a humor site to be entertained... leave the politics to the press)

 

[TraderJimmy]

Apart from not *technically* being true, due to Gabriel being a different sort of protagonist, why exactly do you think this is? Might it be because you cherry picked? Bayonetta and Castlevania share a timed block/dodge slowdown mechanic that none of the other games have. God of War shares multiple selectable primary weapons with Ninja Gaiden II, and Castlevania does not have this. Ninja Gaiden II and Heavenly Sword both have chain weapons.

Almost everything you listed is *extremely* common in action games to the point that nearly every one has it. The only exceptions are chain weapons and grab finishers. These aren't the feature for feature copies you want to make them out to be.

Is that the new Eau de Fanboy cologne from Calvin Klein? Wherever did you get it?

Your mom likes it too. I've just come from her house, which is why I'm wearing it

Seriously, though.... yeah, I like the game. I guess that makes me a fan of it. What's your point?

You haven't heard? Liking something makes your opinion automatically invalid.

Science.

 

[unwesen]

So you are saying my opinion is wrong?

I'm saying Cloverfield wasn't good. That's not an opinion, because a plot is kind of necessary to call it a movie. If I may quote from Wikipedia: "A film, also called a movie or motion picture, is a story conveyed with moving images." Story needs plot, or it's no story.

And it did have a plot. It may have been thin, (...)

We can argue whether it did or did not have a plot. By the very fact that it was thin enough to merit a discussion about whether or not it in fact existed at all, I feel my point is proven. You may disagree, I won't stop you.

(...) but a plot is not necessary to enjoy a film.

No, although there's a contradiction here in that films - or at least movies - need a plot, so enjoyment of them pretty much mandates a plot. But I'll give you that point: you can enjoy watching paint dry, if you so wish. My enjoyment of such plot-less proceedings is not great.

Sometimes, I'd rather watch something mindless than an intense psychological thriler.

Me too! But the cheesiest, mindless action romps that I can think of have more plot that Cloverfield pretended to have.

Oh, and sarcasm does not make you automatically funnier.

Who says I was being funny?

 

[ohgodalex]

What are you talking about? I mean, I like the game, yes. But I didn't go into it *needing* to like the game. I had no opinion of it before I started playing it, and I read very few reviews and saw no TV spots, so I went in with minimal bias. Sure, I picked up an opinion of the game from actually playing it... so I can only conclude that you're saying my point is invalid because I reached the wrong conclusion from playing the game.

So fine, your bias blinds you to the games merits, which makes your opinion invalid. Our perspectives are therefore irreconcilable (though admittedly mine is facetious), and further argument is pointless. Are we done now?

No, on the grounds that you're wrong. I didn't say that the game was bad; in fact, I'm quite partial to God of War clones as a whole.
Regardless, a God of War clone is a God of War clone no matter how good of a God of War clone it is.
God of War clone.

 

[The Cheezy One]

snip

The thing is, you are being very literal about the meaning of the film, but not about its content. It did have a plot. If it didn't, it would literally be the cast, standing in a location, doing nothing. I think what little plot there was was well conveyed, and with a decent plot, could have made a very intriguing scenario, especially with the occasional flip back to a couple weeks earlier. One thing that did annoy me, however, was that the guy went back for the girl, and actually found here, dispite a buiding crashing into the one she was in. Also, while a mass of alien things is attacking them, camera dude still manages to keep a view on them. Same with running. If they are running forward, wwhy is the camera still constantly looking at the same point? I believe critics were incredulous about this too.

 

[unwesen]

The thing is, you are being very literal about the meaning of the film, but not about its content.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.

I'm being somewhat literal when I interpret the meaning of the word "film", or rather "movie". A film is really just a sequence of frames, or more precisely a roll of film on which a sequence of frames is stored, but with today's digital technology it doesn't make much sense to be so literal.

Some film rolls don't hold stories with plots, but just "footage", e.g. of historical or made up events. Even if you cut them together into a documentary, and have a narrator tie all those bits together, there is no story being told in most cases (some documentaries cross over into movies, however).

It did have a plot. If it didn't, it would literally be the cast, standing in a location, doing nothing.

Well, not really. If you have a cast standing around, then there is a plot, even if it can be summarized in a short sentence. A few minutes of footage of, I don't know, a fish tank, that doesn't contain plot. There's no plan for things to happen in a specific manner in that.

Look, I'm aware that Cloverfield tries the mockumentary angle as an excuse to get rid of as much plot as possible, it's an artistic statement of sorts. I get that. I know that the lack of obvious plot is intentional, and that whatever else happens, however much it's stripped down, is still technically a plot of sorts.

The problem is that Cloverfield fails as a proper story because the plot is too thin, and it fails as a mockumentary because the camerawork and character's inexplicable behaviour constantly yank you out of your suspense of disbelief.

I'm sorry, but that just makes the whole thing a pointless exercise to me. It's a bit like making a competitive first person shooter and then making all weapons deal zero damage because you want your game to promote peaceful ideals. Nice idea, but it really doesn't work.

 

[El Gostro]

snip

A lot of users here,such as myself do not reside in the states,are quite aware of the shit storms our own local political scenes are and yet are also quite familiar with the comedical exercise of conservative gerontology american politcs are,if only because news from the current empire/big fish/tomato boss spread easierly through the globe.
So yahtzee citing australian or brittish political blunders wouldnt be as universally far reaching as citing american politics everyone in the somewhat global audience that Yahtzee videos targets is more or less aware of.

Feel free to disagree or correct me,I tend to be wrong about a lot of things

So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies.

I most certainly DO NOT sympathize with Republican economic policies! And I go to the gym every day!

Hey, I second the gym part! (and as someone not from the USA, the Republican economic policies part doesn't really concern me much)
... and I'm self-hating and responsibility-avoiding. Does the admission make me a whiner too?
Fuck if I know, let's just drown this in vulgarity. FUUUUUUCK YEAAAAAHH

Your comments have inspired me to write an article on the rise,fall and abandonment of my gaming life and times...

 

[tyriless]

.[/quote]
It's not even about the back story so much. I don't mind a mystery. It's the fact that you never learned anything about the characters and then they died.

Oh, no, I'm wrong, you learn one thing: the main guy is obviously a brain damaged douche. Not only does he prefer filming stuff to helping his supposed friends, he also prefers it to, say, running for his life.

Ok, ok, I'll stop ranting now.[/quote]
Your criticism is legit in that there is little character development and that there is no really depth to anyone but the protagonist (shallow as that it). However, I disagree with your semantics saying there is no plot. There is a plot. I In fact there are two> The rescue and escape of the main protagonist and his girlfriend and the relationship the two have, albeit the latter is woefully undeveloped.