Sharia (Islamic Law) in Great Britain

[FSAB]

FSAB youre the racist here if you think race is in any way connected to culture. i may be intolerant but if you think your skin color makes you a part of a particular culture and therfore insulting a culture means insulting a race, youre the true racist. there are arab christians and white muslims you know?. and yeah if muslims cant respect european laws they can go fuck themselves or go to jail just like mormons who want to marry 5 13-year-old girls.
non possums

I carn't see how you think I'm racist when I haven't made any negative remarks about race or culture, all i've done is high light how you have made remarks that make this thread feel like this is the BNP's website. And I'm friends with many people, living in london I have met meny people from different cultures and backgrounds and I try not to judge them untill I understand them better, mabey you should do the same.

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

That's absolutely terrible. If mercy killings etc. become legal you guys need to start burning govt buildings down, stuff like that should NEVER be allowed in any culture.

I think you mean honor killings. Whilst there are no doubt mullahs who want honor killing cases heard in Sharia courts, this is far, far beyond the current scope of these courts. There may be civil matters between families which are adjudicated in Sharia court - for example, does the man (or the boy's family) who defiled the daughter and thereby required her killing owe her father a monetary payment? But the actual murder would be a matter for UK criminal courts. Violent felonies are far beyond arbitration of any form, and in any case if you are murdered, you can hardly agree to arbitration in Sharia court.

Technically you could still move a civil case related to the death (Britain, like the US, recognizes "wrongful death" as tort law thing) to a Sharia court, couldn't you?

-- Alex

no you can't bring any case before a sharia court as first its not a court its an abritration panel like ACAS or Medical damages committees. However since its a civil matter and not the breach of one of the crown laws, then yes it could be settled by binding abritration by a panel applying sharia law.

 

[FSAB]

I'm pretty sure these types of scarmongering and thinly vailed racsit remarks were around in germany in the 1930s but leveled against another minority, the Jews, and look what happend there.

I'm surprised it took you so long, to fulfill Godwin's. Shall we address it anyways? actually the seperating out of a people into a distinct community was a key facet of nazi policy that why the few protection the nazis offered jews prior to the holocaust was the displaying of the "jewish colours".

But it had to start somewhere didn't it, this current climate of scarmongering is the type of climate to let people like the nazis segregate a minority because the poulation is scared of what they may or may not do. Would we learn from history i wonder, or just repeat it?

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

I carn't see how you think I'm racist when I haven't made any negative remarks about race or culture, all i've done is high light how you have made remarks that make this thread feel like this is the BNP's website. And I'm friends with many people, living in london I have met meny people from different cultures and backgrounds and I try not to judge them untill I understand them better, mabey you should do the same.

I think the essential argument to you being a racist is that you seem to be defining someone culture solely by their race which reduces them to a racist stereotype. whereas culture and race aren't linked to the extent your oversimplified connection presents it.

perhaps an ancedote would help highlight this point. When i worked for the Home Office i was sent to Leicester to do a review of policing after a channel 4 documentary had highlighted some rather disturbing problems. Upon arriving i got a cab from the train station, in the conversation with the cabbie, he asked about my job, upon telling him he entered into a tirade about immigration what you would no doubt describe as a typical sun reading white van man opinions. Only thing was he was an Indian Sikh as it transpired an immigrant himself but his culture was far more that of a cab driver than anything defined by his race or religion.

 

[FSAB]

Christianity and Judaism have 'grown up' in a sense, and are much more compatible in a forward thinking world. A very large, very influential, and very vocal number of Muslim believers are still in the same state of mind they were in 1000 years ago when the crusades were actually happening.

See this what I'm taliking about, cultral predigist thinking that your cultrual is some how better than anothers. This is what you call being enlightend? Mabey you should round up all people who don't agree with and make them do forced labour untill they get "enlightend", is that forward thinking enough for ya?

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

But it had to start somewhere didn't it, this current climate of scarmongering is the type of climate to let people like the nazis segregate a minority because the poulation is scared of what they may or may not do. Would we learn from history i wonder, or just repeat it?

See the problem with the argument is your trying to use scaremongering to denigrate genuine arguments. Further the people here are argue the exact opposite of the comparsion your trying to make as they arguing for integration, that you're British and that the law should be applied to all citizens the same, to avoid what Trevor Philips called sleep walking into segregation were we have parallel communities that just shar the same cities, as has happened in northern Ireland. If anything your argument is the one closest to the nazis as your arguing for seperate cultures which is what the nazis argued for and even intially protected the jews rights to do so. so its somewhat of a self immolating godwins.

 

[Saskwach]

Thats what I'm talking about, racism, no matter how you cut it you think your cultrue is superior to their culture.

Now you're just making up your own definitions.

I'm not, race is not just skin colour but creed as well, any way you slice it its predigist and your giving into your fear and hatred of something uknown to you. Mabey you need to reveiw why your belifs, or more likely come up with week excuses why your not racist, something along the lines of "i'm not racist i'm just carefull" "its political corectness gone mad" or the big one "i'm not racist I have black friends".

I gave you a definition of racism and nothing about it has anything to do with religion or culture. If you want more, go to google and type in "define: racism". None of them mention culture as being a facet of race or racism.
Which leads us to the decision: are all these various definitions of racism wrong or are you wrong? Occam's razor points to you.
But I can sense what you're trying to say and it's not race: it's closer to ethnicity. ("Define: ethnicity".) But saying someone may have a problem with a certain ethnicity doesn't have the same ring to it, and it doesn't cow people into silence through fear of being labelled a Bad Person(TM) like "racism" does.

 

[FSAB]

I think the essential argument to you being a racist is that you seem to be defining someone culture solely by their race which reduces them to a racist stereotype. whereas culture and race aren't linked to the extent your oversimplified connection presents it.

I don't think I ever said they were one and the same, just that you can be called a racist your attacking a different cultrue, mabey rasism isn't the right word but I carn't think of a better one.

perhaps an ancedote would help highlight this point. When i worked for the Home Office i was sent to Leicester to do a review of policing after a channel 4 documentary had highlighted some rather disturbing problems. Upon arriving i got a cab from the train station, in the conversation with the cabbie, he asked about my job, upon telling him he entered into a tirade about immigration what you would no doubt describe as a typical sun reading white van man opinions. Only thing was he was an Indian Sikh as it transpired an immigrant himself but his culture was far more that of a cab driver than anything defined by his race or religion.

Yes that is intersesting, goes to show that it ain't just white people who hold these predigist veiws, but its still bad that people are so cut off from each other we attack them instead of reasoning with them.

 

[Saskwach]

I think the essential argument to you being a racist is that you seem to be defining someone culture solely by their race which reduces them to a racist stereotype. whereas culture and race aren't linked to the extent your oversimplified connection presents it.

I don't think I ever said they were one and the same, just that you can be called a racist your attacking a different cultrue, mabey rasism isn't the right word but I carn't think of a better one.

Racism isn't the right word at all; using such a loaded word just because you don't know a better one poisons the debate.

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

Christianity and Judaism have 'grown up' in a sense, and are much more compatible in a forward thinking world. A very large, very influential, and very vocal number of Muslim believers are still in the same state of mind they were in 1000 years ago when the crusades were actually happening.

See this what I'm taliking about, cultral predigist thinking that your cultrual is some how better than anothers. This is what you call being enlightend? Mabey you should round up all people who don't agree with and make them do forced labour untill they get "enlightend", is that forward thinking enough for ya?

I don't live in a culture... I live in America. Countries where you can choose to be like everyone else or think outside the box, and don't make you kneel before god 24/7 have gone on to do some great things. Like invent stuff and cure diseases... and get men on the fucking moon. If you can't appreciate that and you're just slamming your keyboard with what can only be sausage-like fingers, then piss off because you're only part of the problem and have no interest in a solution. If you don't think there's a problem to be solved, then you obviously didn't read the title of the thread.

 

[Obliterato]

There appears to be alot of debate about the religious implications but little about how this can actually occur. British law is based on case law, by which all othe cases are measured. Theres is a maximum and a minimum sentence a judge can give for a case but it is at the judges discretion as to the degree of punishment. If a judge were to give a harsh sentence that compared to a case before the defence lawyer could argue as being excessive they would be able to argue this in an appeal court. However the real issue is the fact that those ivolved ahve gone outside the court system into arbitration, where only the two parties and their lawyers are present. Apart from the legal code there are no rules and regulations about the values the people involved choose to follow and say it was for a domestic abuse case, the abused could not be forced to press charges. This rises an interesting question of how you would go about setting laws that would make people live by certain values, who would enforce these and could those laws be argued against in a european court as contravening someones freedom of speech, expression or practicing of religion?

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

I think the essential argument to you being a racist is that you seem to be defining someone culture solely by their race which reduces them to a racist stereotype. whereas culture and race aren't linked to the extent your oversimplified connection presents it.

I don't think I ever said they were one and the same, just that you can be called a racist your attacking a different cultrue, mabey rasism isn't the right word but I carn't think of a better one.

perhaps an ancedote would help highlight this point. When i worked for the Home Office i was sent to Leicester to do a review of policing after a channel 4 documentary had highlighted some rather disturbing problems. Upon arriving i got a cab from the train station, in the conversation with the cabbie, he asked about my job, upon telling him he entered into a tirade about immigration what you would no doubt describe as a typical sun reading white van man opinions. Only thing was he was an Indian Sikh as it transpired an immigrant himself but his culture was far more that of a cab driver than anything defined by his race or religion.

Yes that is intersesting, goes to show that it ain't just white people who hold these predigist veiws, but its still bad that people are so cut off from each other we attack them instead of reasoning with them.

Well I for one don't think you're racist. I just think you're stupid. That's the same view I hold for any religious fundamentalist.

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

See this what I'm taliking about, cultral predigist thinking that your cultrual is some how better than anothers. This is what you call being enlightend? Mabey you should round up all people who don't agree with and make them do forced labour untill they get "enlightend", is that forward thinking enough for ya?

Of course everything thinks there culture is better thats why they practice it, if they didn't they adopt something else wouldn't they? But a facet of western culture is tolerance(and historically some interpretation of Islam though only towards Christians and Jews, and indeed some other cultures). However there is a limit to toleration and certain things are abhorant and we impose moral imperialism, just as like the Freetown court, the Nuremberg trial or the Haig. Your second comment again is a massive overstatement, misused and only works to diminish the impact of such arguments when actually appropriate. Though the original poster seems to overlook the crimes of orthodox jews in Israel and/or Palestine and the oh some many christians unless he considers lynching black people and homosexuals progressive. He said vocal individuals not the entire body of followers, but then this does betray the ignorance in your argument, as when the vocal individuals incite or order violence we do round them up and put them in camps, called Prisons but we give them the benefit of jury trials first because that one our quirky culture traditions were imposing on them.

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

law everyone should obey is the law enforced by the british goverment. leting an arabian woman be abused while helping the white woman is the true racism.

You hit the nail on the head so fucking hard it went right through the board.

 

[FSAB]

But it had to start somewhere didn't it, this current climate of scarmongering is the type of climate to let people like the nazis segregate a minority because the poulation is scared of what they may or may not do. Would we learn from history i wonder, or just repeat it?

See the problem with the argument is your trying to use scaremongering to denigrate genuine arguments. Further the people here are argue the exact opposite of the comparsion your trying to make as they arguing for integration, that you're British and that the law should be applied to all citizens the same, to avoid what Trevor Philips called sleep walking into segregation were we have parallel communities that just shar the same cities, as has happened in northern Ireland. If anything your argument is the one closest to the nazis as your arguing for seperate cultures which is what the nazis argued for and even intially protected the jews rights to do so. so its somewhat of a self immolating godwins.

I'm all for a reasoned debate on sharia law, but I don't what to see that old predictable "If they don't like it they should fuck off home", its just hatfull bile.

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

I don't think I ever said they were one and the same, just that you can be called a racist your attacking a different cultrue, mabey rasism isn't the right word but I carn't think of a better one.

Cultural Imperialist, is more appropriate and also has the negative connotations i think your looking for.

Yes that is intersesting, goes to show that it ain't just white people who hold these predigist veiws, but its still bad that people are so cut off from each other we attack them instead of reasoning with them.

really i thought it was wonderful, since no matter where you go and no matter a cabbie's race religion or creed, A british cabbie is always and fundamentally a british cabbie. It highlights the integration that democracies can achieve when you just treat someone as an individual rather than by a label such as muslim or asian.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

I noticed an article today in the Times that said Sharia has been adopted as legally binding law in Great Britain.

If you take their word for everything, we are currently overrun with Muslims, Poles and Foxes. All of these combined have led to an "economic breakdown", an increase in house prices and the death of Princess Diana. And you know, if she was alive everything would be OK again. The day I believe anything they have to say is the day... can't think of anything witty at the moment.

But to play devil's advocate, they can obey their own laws all they want so long as:
a) They don't conflict the current laws in place
b) They don't apply to people not of that faith
Nothing wrong with multi-culturalism but for the ones that have fled other countries, troubled or not, they should have to accept the laws in place as a sort of deal for them being allowed to live here out of charity.