Sharia (Islamic Law) in Great Britain

[Saskwach]

This may have been explained already, but what happens when/if Sharia law conflicts with what I take to be true, that these arbitration courts cannot rule over criminal law? Will both courts, depending on the severity, simply pretend not to notice? Will there be some hashing out of what decision goes where (or has this already been done)?
For example, in the case of spousal abuse: will this be considered a criminal act or a private case to be worked out? Are there grey areas that could lead to frayed tensions between these two different streams of law?
Dang, that's a lot of questions.

 

[poleboy]

First of all, I don't particularly like Sharia law. It is based on some very old principles that do not apply to modern society, yet today it is interprited in the same way that it was way back then. With that in mind...

You go live in another country. You accept that country's laws. No negotiations.

What if they are British citizens? It is possible to become a citizen of a country even if you were not born there, you know. It doesn't seem fair to deny someone the right to affect their country's structure because they belong to a particular religion. Democracy (also) means you have to accept a lot of crap you don't agree to. If everyone really loves these traditional British values so much, they should not have a problem surviving in a democratic country.

Another thing is this fear of Muslims that a lot of Western countries have been trying to deal with for the last decade or so. It's important to remember that the Muslims you see living in your (Western) country are people who are far removed from their usual culture, whether by choice or not. They cling to the things they remember about "the old country", often intensifying their various beliefs in an attempt to preserve their identity. Muslims living in Muslim countries are usually much more moderate and much more accepting of the idea that Sharia and modern society has to get along for things to work.

 

[Hawgh]

isn't there an old saying concerning this? something about giving Cesar what is his and giving God what is His?
I do believe it was said by someone that the Koran recognizes as a (one of many) prophet of it's god.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

For example, in the case of spousal abuse: will this be considered a criminal act or a private case to be worked out? Are there grey areas that could lead to frayed tensions between these two different streams of law?
Dang, that's a lot of questions.

I think in the case of spousal abuse the abused spouse has to make an official request to have charges brought against the abuser (I could be wrong though).If thats the case, its British law all the way.

 

[BigKingBob]

It's outdated.

What the hell England, what the hell.

Once again, this is BRITAIN not england.

This may have been explained already, but what happens when/if Sharia law conflicts with what I take to be true, that these arbitration courts cannot rule over criminal law? Will both courts, depending on the severity, simply pretend not to notice? Will there be some hashing out of what decision goes where (or has this already been done)?
For example, in the case of spousal abuse: will this be considered a criminal act or a private case to be worked out? Are there grey areas that could lead to frayed tensions between these two different streams of law?
Dang, that's a lot of questions.

If there is a conflict or either party do not wish to take it through arbitration or the authorities view it as possibly unfair or if it is a major criminal case then British common law takes precedence.

but back to muslims:
i may think i sound "racist", but in fact im more like a "culturist". i despise some groups of people because of their beliefs not their skin colour. so what i want to say is that arabic culture is generally inferior to european, especially when it comes to law and social interaction and that muslims should learn to live in our countries on our terms or otherwise we'll degrade back to middle ages. also sharia is an evil, evil piece of crap and should be forgotten forever

Yeah, you do sound racist. On what ground to you declare your culture to be any better than their culture? Their culture has a different way of looking at things, a different code of morals and a different system of justice. Over the course of history they have contributes just as much (if not more) to human society than western european civilization has.

And to all those perople who have been saying "If you come to someone else's country you must accept their rules and culture" surely you are all being sarcastic? Because historically that is bullshit

 

[ultra_v_89]

There is a reason nobody rigorously upholds everthing in the Bible, that shit is bananas. Its out of date and out of touch, we can't kill someone for being a dishonorable son anymore, however, Shariah law has remained vastly unchanged since its creation and shows no indication of changing, which is what scares most Westerners the most. Never fear, however, since this is unlikely to effect you unless you are a practising, female Muslim, with an abusive, Islamic husband and a strict dedication to Shariah law. Perhaps the West is becoming too tolerant but really, do you not trust your fellow citizens enough to cause an uproar should Shariah law become binding on all or be used unjustly?

 

[stompy]

Post of Awesomeness

Thank you my good sir, you have just expressed my opinions.

I just love the double-standards of this; if I went to a nation that was predominantly Muslim, and did the same as people have done here, I'd most likely be facing jail time, if not worse. (I've no qualms with Muslims in general, just idiots like the one's in the OP)

Oh, trust me, I heard stories about Kuwait...

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

Yeah, you do sound racist. On what ground to you declare your culture to be any better than their culture? Their culture has a different way of looking at things, a different code of morals and a different system of justice. Over the course of history they have contributes just as much (if not more) to human society than western european civilization has.

And to all those perople who have been saying "If you come to someone else's country you must accept their rules and culture" surely you are all being sarcastic? Because historically that is bullshit

calling some racist is just a poor defence that you invalidate yourself by making a similiar statement claiming Islamic culture is better. What your proposing is moral relativism which is frankly far more sickening, because it abjugates any moral values and means anything is permissiable, which is frankly unacceptable, if you see someone being beaten in the street do you do nothing because it is there culture? by your arguement slavery was not only acceptable but morally superior because it was europeans merely engaging with the native culture and that the actions of the British Navy in shutting it down represent some sort of grave injustice.

as for the second part there is some argument for it when it comes to Islam as the Koran specifically states that is what a muslim should do.

 

[Capt_Jack_Doicy]

If a fellow citizen is being subjected to injustice in my country, is that not my concern just because I am not subjected to it?

excellent post.

 

[hippo24]

Umm....i feel for all of the English people because the rate at which the Muslim population is diffusing into the English populous predicts that in the next 200 years the country will be predominantly Arabic.

It's similar to the united states and Mexican immigration, but their culture has many aspects that are similar to western ideals, while Muslim culture is much farther removed.

 

[hippo24]

Yeah, you do sound racist. On what ground to you declare your culture to be any better than their culture? Their culture has a different way of looking at things, a different code of morals and a different system of justice. Over the course of history they have contributes just as much (if not more) to human society than western european civilization has.

And to all those perople who have been saying "If you come to someone else's country you must accept their rules and culture" surely you are all being sarcastic? Because historically that is bullshit

calling some racist is just a poor defence that you invalidate yourself by making a similiar statement claiming Islamic culture is better. What your proposing is moral relativism which is frankly far more sickening, because it abjugates any moral values and means anything is permissiable, which is frankly unacceptable, if you see someone being beaten in the street do you do nothing because it is there culture? by your arguement slavery was not only acceptable but morally superior because it was europeans merely engaging with the native culture and that the actions of the British Navy in shutting it down represent some sort of grave injustice.

as for the second part there is some argument for it when it comes to Islam as the Koran specifically states that is what a muslim should do.

Well said...

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

That's absolutely terrible. If mercy killings etc. become legal you guys need to start burning govt buildings down, stuff like that should NEVER be allowed in any culture.

 

[ultra_v_89]

Never fear, however, since this is unlikely to effect you unless you are a practising, female Muslim, with an abusive, Islamic husband and a strict dedication to Shariah law.

If a fellow citizen is being subjected to injustice in my country, is that not my concern just because I am not subjected to it?

An excellant point, however, it wouldn't be of my concern if the person willingly accepts Sharia law. Yes, it seems an injustice to most but some people eat poop from a cup and who are we to judge them, its their choice. Please note that I am in no way condoning Sharia law, however, in this example the victim can choose not to accept it.

 

[BardSeed]

Discrimination is going to be the result of the government allowing others special privileges. I'm all for tolerance; let them believe what they want. I do not agree with treating them differently because of their beliefs. Apparently, we are striving for equality yet we have allowed the Muslims to segregate themselves, that is not equality. This fuels discrimination, if you want everyone to feel equal then we must all be treated the same. This just puts a bigger divide between the white British and British born Muslims.
If they want to live in this country, and they are here legally(Yeah, right), then they will follow the law of the land. A lot of people are going to see this as the government giving special treatment to ethnic "minorities" and it may lead to rioting. If there is a revolution here then it may be the first in history to push against liberalism!

 

[werepossum]

That's absolutely terrible. If mercy killings etc. become legal you guys need to start burning govt buildings down, stuff like that should NEVER be allowed in any culture.

I think you mean honor killings. Whilst there are no doubt mullahs who want honor killing cases heard in Sharia courts, this is far, far beyond the current scope of these courts. There may be civil matters between families which are adjudicated in Sharia court - for example, does the man (or the boy's family) who defiled the daughter and thereby required her killing owe her father a monetary payment? But the actual murder would be a matter for UK criminal courts. Violent felonies are far beyond arbitration of any form, and in any case if you are murdered, you can hardly agree to arbitration in Sharia court.