Shit! we forgot an election thread for the midterms. Here it is now.

Silvanus

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No. I'm telling you that every single piece of direct evidence has supported the conclusion that the data is both authentic and unrelated to Russia.
Direct evidence which, in the words of the analysts themselves, is either 1) severely limited in what it shows (the verifications), or 2) itself susceptible to tampering (the timestamps).

Leaving enormous holes and uncertainties. Yet you seem to be concluding that it provides a definitive case against Hunter Biden. A conclusion very much at odds with the analysts' own.

((Putting aside the fact that i'd consider repeated log wipes to itself be pretty compelling evidence that there had been previous modifications)).
 

tstorm823

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A conclusion very much at odds with the analysts' own.
Nearly 100% of the people I've seen investigate the data have made the affirmative claim that it was almost certainly directly off of Hunter's physical laptop, a conclusion very much at odds with your weird illogic.
 

Avnger

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Nearly 100% of the people I've seen investigate the data have made the affirmative claim that it was almost certainly directly off of Hunter's physical laptop
So there's not even a consensus ("nearly 100%" & "almost certainly") among the sources you sought out for validating your preexisting views ("people [you]'ve seen")...

You're not exactly making the argument you think you are, mate.
 

tstorm823

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So there's not even a consensus ("nearly 100%" & "almost certainly") among the sources you sought out for validating your preexisting views ("people [you]'ve seen")...

You're not exactly making the argument you think you are, mate.
I am making exactly the argument I think I am, I'm just not lying. No credible person is going to claim 100% certainty, and the ones who are not highly confident still say there is no evidence the data came from Russia in any sense.

Silvanus has only the argument from incredulity. No evidence nor analysts have claimed Russian involvement, the expert claim it was came from no first hand knowledge, and the FBI has opened investigations into Hunter Biden. There is no good reason left to dispute the laptops authenticity.
 

Silvanus

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Nearly 100% of the people I've seen investigate the data have made the affirmative claim that it was almost certainly directly off of Hunter's physical laptop, a conclusion very much at odds with your weird illogic.
Once again, you're not actually listening to the nature of the objection, because I am not disputing the data came from the laptop. That is not the nature of the dispute we're having.

There are enormous holes in what we know, and extensive evidence of tampering, that leave open the possibility that the data on the laptop was compromised. That's the nature of the dispute.

Silvanus has only the argument from incredulity. No evidence nor analysts have claimed Russian involvement, the expert claim it was came from no first hand knowledge, and the FBI has opened investigations into Hunter Biden. There is no good reason left to dispute the laptops authenticity.
No evidence or analysts have conclusively pointed to criminality by Hunter Biden, either; the analysts have been very clear in stating that the timestamps could've been tampered, and the email verifications don't mean very much.

The analysts gave cautious conclusions, and were very explicit about the limitations they faced. They were clear that the verifications and timestamps are not conclusive at all, and only even applied to a small portion of the data. Yet you've taken that and concluded that all the information is definitely 100% authentic.
 

tstorm823

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No evidence or analysts have conclusively pointed to criminality by Hunter Biden.
You mean other than the federal agents saying they had evidence to charge him on the drugs and guns and hookers?
 

Silvanus

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You mean other than the federal agents saying they had evidence to charge him on the drugs and guns and hookers?
Obviously I'm talking about evidence from the laptop, relating to the supposed corruption charges implicating Biden. I assumed it was a given we were still talking about the laptop.
 

tstorm823

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Obviously I'm talking about evidence from the laptop, relating to the supposed corruption charges implicating Biden. I assumed it was a given we were still talking about the laptop.
Yes. The laptop contained evidence of Hunter doing drugs with guns and hookers.
 

Silvanus

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Yes. The laptop contained evidence of Hunter doing drugs with guns and hookers.
And everything solid on those charges comes prior to the laptop. Considering the analysts are very open about how the information on the laptop is unreliable.
 

tstorm823

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And everything solid on those charges comes prior to the laptop. Considering the analysts are very open about how the information on the laptop is unreliable.
The evidence would have originated on the laptop. The files were created on the laptop. Nothing comes prior.
 

Avnger

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The evidence would have originated on the laptop. The files were created on the laptop. Nothing comes prior.
Citation needed.

Hunter Biden has had a known drug problem for years including the documented case when he was kicked out of the Navy Reserves for it, the allegations made in the court filings of his ex-wife, and his own published memoir. The gun charge is related to him lying on an ATF form relating to said drug use. He was also under investigation for tax issues well before the laptop came to light. None of those charges would necessarily rely on anything coming from his hard drive. You're making unproved assertions because you want them to be true.
 

Silvanus

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The evidence would have originated on the laptop. The files were created on the laptop. Nothing comes prior.
The evidence that actually prompted the investigation definitely predates the laptop, because the investigation was launched 2018, and the FBI got the laptop in 2019.
 

tstorm823

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None of those charges would necessarily rely on anything coming from his hard drive.
But if they rely on Hunter's electronic correspondence, they were working off of copies, and the laptop is the original.
The evidence that actually prompted the investigation definitely predates the laptop, because the investigation was launched 2018, and the FBI got the laptop in 2019.
The files on the laptop go back to 2015 at minimum. They well predate the investigations.
 

Silvanus

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The files on the laptop go back to 2015 at minimum. They well predate the investigations.
How exactly could the authorities have been investigating something they hadn't seen?
 

tstorm823

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How exactly could the authorities have been investigating something they hadn't seen?
Well you see, what happens is investigators typically get some small piece of evidence that starts an investigation, like a couple of emails obtained from somebody else, and then in the process of the investigation they confiscate the computer they came from, because that has the hard evidence on it.
 

Silvanus

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Well you see, what happens is investigators typically get some small piece of evidence that starts an investigation, like a couple of emails obtained from somebody else, and then in the process of the investigation they confiscate the computer they came from, because that has the hard evidence on it.
And you think the laptop-- which all analysts say is highly unreliable-- provided them the evidence required to pursue... leads they were already pursuing?
 

tstorm823

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And you think the laptop-- which all analysts say is highly unreliable-- provided them the evidence required to pursue... leads they were already pursuing?
Well now, in the words of Buyetyen, you're just making things up dude.
 

Silvanus

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Well now, in the words of Buyetyen, you're just making things up dude.
OK-- what is there that is conclusive evidence of criminality, in your view, on the laptop?

What do you imagine would hold up in court, considering that we know it's been tampered with and its logs deleted during a period of completely unknown chain-of-custody, and that timestamps/email verifications don't prove the provenance of the information.
 
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