Should Boxing Be Banned?

[Euryalus]

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/neurotodayonline/_layouts/oaks.journals.mobile/articleviewer.aspx?year=2007&issue=01160&article=00005]AMA article

http://soli.com/reading/boxing.htm

So clearly this has been a thing for awhile, but I just relatively recently became aware of it.

In the 70's the American Medical Association called for a complete ban on the sport of boxing, a position they still hold today.

The gist of the idea is that Boxing has a high instance of injury and brain damage, and is unnecessary.

Which I can understand to some extent. No one wants to see people get hurt in sports, least of all the participants themselves, but the AMA's solution of banning rubs me the wrong way, especially because of the bias they're absolutely swimming in.

Look at this quote.

Boxing brain injuries are 100 percent preventable, but the sad truth is that not only is boxing the only sport in which the goal is to injure the opponent's brain...

First off, every injury in a sport is 100% avoidable. No one needs to play sports. We do, because we understand what the consequences are and judge them to be an acceptable risk.

Secondly, the goal of boxing IS NOT to brain someone. The goal is to win the fight, and the vast majority of wins come through a point system gained by landing blows, not knock outs. It's one thing to say brain injury is a risk of boxing, and entirely another to say brain injury is the point of it.

And the title of this paper

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=381940

"Boxing Should Be Banned in Civilized Countries"

Boxing banned in civilized countries? Why? Because of the brain injuries?

Well, what about the other sports with high numbers of brain injuries? Why don't we ban them?

The answer is because we see the benefits and freedom to do what you like doing as outweighing risks going in.

It's bullshit for the AMA to selectively say that Boxing is uncivilized because of the risk of injuries while ignoring other sports.

Even more bullshit to use the risk of injury as an excuse to try and deny people the ability to participate in a sport they love.

TL;DR I think Banning Boxing is a crap idea. What do you guys think?

 

[Flutterguy]

I'm all for nature selection.

Not going to force someone to not hurt themselves, but it does make sense to tell someone "Hey maybe you shouldn't try jumping off your balcony" or "Jim I don't think drinking 10 jagerbombs is a good idea". Maybe this is just an attempt at doing that.

I was going to say "as long as they don't get free medical attention", but after a few seconds recollection I realized that doesn't stand up. Most people receiving medical attention are in that situation because they chose to do something stupid whether it be substance abuse, gluttonous appetite, stunts, fighting.. no reason to exclude boxers. At least they have (in some cases) a big fat paycheck guiding their idiocy.

 

[Timotei]

Any sport in which the head could potentially become involved is dangerous, and it's not like the people involved are unaware of what could potentially happen to them. The boxer knows going into the sport that there is a likely chance they will come out of a match with a concussion, but they still play anyway because it's not like they can just switch over to tennis to avoid further injury, and even they still have to worry about keeping the lights on. Let's not also forget how many other people work in this industry who aren't the athletes who would lose their jobs because of this.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I don't see the point in banning it, people voluntarily participate so I don't really see the problem.

My ex used to box and he loved it, I know if anyone tried to ban it, he'd be pretty pissed off.
You know the risks when you take part, same as any other sport.

Maybe publish more widely available information on the injury stats to ensure that all participants, and their parents in the case of younger kids, are fully informed of the risks involved.

 

[Barbas]

If they ban that, why not ban American Football as well - I hear many a human spine has been ruined by that practice. It's all voluntary, though, so it doesn't particularly matter. Injury is a part of sports and the risk is higher in some sports than others. Like people before me have already said, players know the risks.

Yeah, I 'unno man, whatever. This is part of the freedom that is supposed to make America great, is it not? Ban is bad. Ban is Unamerican.

 

[Comocat]

I think in situations like this, the costs need to be transparent. The main controversy with the NFL was they hid the extent of brain damage caused by years of professional football from the players. More or less team owners were making significant profit at the expense of players and insurance companies who would need to care for those players for year. I dont think dangerous sports should be banned, because the people who participate in them do so on a voluntary basis, but certainly the risks should be more transparent and the costs to the participants should be shared more equitably.

 

[Xan Krieger]

So long as no innocent people suffer I say let it continue. These people accept the risks, same as with any other sport so if they want to end up with a wrecked brain before they're a senior citizen I say let them. Also they should have to pay for any medical care they end up receiving as a result of the sport, it shouldn't be paid for by insurance or taxpayers.

 

[Eamar]

Absolutely not. The only reason I don't currently box is because my university's boxing club's practice times clashed with my lectures etc (also I'm currently taking a year out for health reasons), and I'm at an elite university so obviously my brain is pretty damn important to me.

Personally, I find that I have a natural level of competitiveness and raw aggression that needs an outlet, and sport is the best way to get that out. I accept that not everyone has that (and, being a woman, it's perhaps even more unusual than you might expect), but this is a real thing that a lot of people feel.

So many things pose an "unnecessary risk" to our health in one way or another, but so long as no one's being coerced into participating it's really up to the individuals involved.

 

[Username Redacted]

Boxing along with American rules Football will eventually be banned. But I do not support such a ban and that ban does not come today. As long as the participants are made aware of the risks associated with the activity and their participation in the activity is voluntary then IMO have at it. If boxing wants to exist in 20 years both head trauma and corruption need to be addressed more thoroughly than they are now.

For example this fight got on my radar a few years ago ("A rabbinical student who's a boxer?!? Might be interesting"):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Cotto_vs._Yuri_Foreman

Both fighters where fine though it was pretty obvious from minute 1 of round 1 that Cotto was the vastly superior fighter. The issue here is that I had never before and never since (largely due to a decreased watching of boxing) been actually sick to my stomach at a fights officiating. I've seen bad officiating in boxing and in MMA. Ranging from general incompetence to poor judgment but not ever something so blatantly corrupt.

 

[omega 616]

Boxing is a fucking brutal sport, that's why.

You look at MMA and think "damn, that's gruesome" but it's not half as bad as boxing.

In boxing the goal is to win by knock out or points, the fighter is allowed to carry on fighting if the ref believes the fighter can carry on, which means a dazed and fucked up fighter is getting pulverized by HEAVY, HEAVY shots! Thus causing death and serious brain injuries.

Fighters getting knocked down god knows how many times, which is basically short knock outs (or near knock outs) are allowed to carry on, by given 10 seconds.

In MMA as soon as the ref believes the fighter isn't doing enough to defend themselves, the fight is over! No 10 count, unless you get hit in the nuts or eye poked and then you get 5 minutes.

It's why MMA has 0 deaths (last time I checked anyway) and boxing has hundreds and leaves retired boxers a little soft in the head.

 

[Ratty]

People are going to box. As long as there are individuals desperate and talented enough to do it for a living and there are rich people who want to watch/bet on their matches it will continue. If you ban the manly art of pugilism, the only people you're going to hurt are the boxers. Because you'll just drive the sport underground, making it even harder for these guys and girls to make a decent living and get the medical care and attention that they need.

It's not like banning American football, you don't have to have a lot of space or equipment to host a boxing match. Creating a black market would only help crooks.

I think in situations like this, the costs need to be transparent. The main controversy with the NFL was they hid the extent of brain damage caused by years of professional football from the players. More or less team owners were making significant profit at the expense of players and insurance companies who would need to care for those players for year. I dont think dangerous sports should be banned, because the people who participate in them do so on a voluntary basis, but certainly the risks should be more transparent and the costs to the participants should be shared more equitably.

I agree that adults should be able to take the risk. I actually do think it would be a good thing to ban American football in public schools. Tax money should not go to a sport that kills grade and high schoolers every year, and causes lasting injuries to many more.

 

[Zhukov]

*shrug*

If other people wish to beat each other into retardation then far be it from me to stop them.

They have a point with the brain-damage-being-the-objective thing though. No, not every bout ends in a knockout, but KOs are seen as superior to winning by points.

 

[shootthebandit]

Creating a black market would only help crooks.

Boxing has and will always be run by crooks. I dont think its as bad as it once was but it still has a reputation for match fixing and betting scandals

I do agree that boxing shouldnt be banned as it would be driven underground (although underground boxing is still pretty common place)

Its one of these ones where an outright ban would be nigh on impossible to police

Off topic: interesting fact that more people have died and suffered long term injuries since the introduction of gloves. Bare knuckle boxing looks messier but its most superficial. Gloves protect the knuckles meaning you can hit harder with more blunt force

 

[JoJo]

Nah. I don't think dangerous hobbies or sports should be banned, provided people enter voluntarily and know the risks. Not everyone values health as the most important thing in their life and if someone wants to do something at the expense of their health that affects no innocent bystanders, who are we to tell them otherwise? It's their life, no-one else's.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I think they should just switch to lighter gloves with less padding. As someone mentioned earlier, a big reason why there are so many brain injuries is because with such thick gloves, fighters are free to punch each other in the head extremely hard without worrying about breaking any bones in their hands. When bare-knuckle boxing was legal, they actually focused much more on body shots to avoid the potential for breaking their hand by punching the hardest bone in the human body (ie. the skull).

But even if they don't switch, no, I don't think it should be banned. This isn't like dogfighting or bullfighting, no one is forcing these guys (and gals) into the ring, and even if they aren't the brightest bulbs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that getting punched in the face continuously carries some risk with it.

 

[Euryalus]

-snip-

I had to put Jiu Jitsu on Hold because of a shit school schedule last semester. It was rather annoying. :/

-snip-

I don't think anyone should be opposed to an honest look at how boxing could be made safer, and it probably could take a lot of pointers from UFC/MMA.

And yeah boxers hit like a truck.

 

[Euryalus]

I wouldn't mind seeing it gone, or modified to reduce such injuries. But it doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do either.

Wouldn't mind as in apathy? Or support a ban?

The only reason they suffer brain injuries is because of those gloves the boxers wear. In the old days of boxing (before those big ass gloves), the participants rarely went for the head because the human skull is a lot more sturdy than the hand, and the hand would easily break before the skull does. Yes the persons head may have a welt on it, but the interior brain damage wouldn't be as severe. Yes the MMA organizations use gloves, but those gloves are not padded the same way boxing gloves are. Boxing gloves add plenty of weight to the punch and soften the impact to the fist; so not only is receiver taking a heavier hit, the attacker can keep going instead of worrying about busting his hand.

These athletes know what they're getting themselves into and have accepted the risk. If people don't like it, they shouldn't feel obligated to change it. #MaleGamerPrivilege

I had heard that before. I asked about why they don't really use 'em in MMA fights and got that response. It was surprising to say the least.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Damn. First they take away our pistol duels of honor, now they go after boxing. If the price of living in a civilized society if our manliness than I shall have none of it.

And I'd much rather people who need aggression outlets get their fighting done in an enviornment with officials and medical techs at the ready than some random bar fight.