Should I buy SimCity?

[BloatedGuppy]

This day n' age though... folk seem to think this stuff is the second coming... Not even sure people like games anymore..?

Oh spare me the back in the day crap. I'm probably older than you, and I liked games then and I like games now. You're right though, people don't seem to like games anymore. They like finding new reasons to hate them.

 

[Weaver]

Would you mind describing to me how this is Anti Consumer DRM? I have yet to see how this falls under those lines, but would like to know more?

To add to the other guy's list;

You have to rely on EA's servers, which are unreliable.

You have to queue if your "server is full".

You will have to stop playing if they restart the servers.

If they ever turn the servers off, your game is a brick.

-----

And all that, when pirates will just crack the game so it thinks it's logged on when it isn't. Or perhaps even manage to connect to the EA servers through some trickery.

DRM only punishes the consumer. No one else.

All you've done is describe anything that can happen to any online game.. that's not exactly the same as DRM,

Also DRM does not just punish the consumer, yeah sometimes its Iffie/a burden but a company has the right to protect its property how it seems fit, you as a consumer have the ability to decide if you are still willing to support said property.

Again, Sim City wasn't an online game in the first place, it doesn't have to be an online game. Would be different if you were talking about League of Legends being online only, because that's the point of the game.

Aggressive DRM has never deterred anyone from pirating a game once it's cracked in one or two weeks. It only hurts the paying customer.

All people are going to say to this is "But the game was DESIGNED to be online! It's a multiplayer game, just like am MMO!"

To all those people, I really doubt they've played the fucking thing. I did the beta in a region with some other people, I basically just forgot they were there and played by myself. If this is a multiplayer game, then so is a bunch of people sitting in a room playing solitaire at their own tables.

 

[Vetta E-dom]

And I welcome the whining to continue, until people like EA stop trying to grind the industry into dust with their incompetence.

You've heard it all already. You know it doesn't fix anything. You know it only punishes the paying customers.

So it has to stop. I'm sorry that you're frustrated with people trying to stand up for themselves.

Also DRM does not just punish the consumer

If not, then how comes every game, regardless of DRM, is always available to download illegally - usually barely hours after release? How exactly does DRM punish anyone except the consumer, then?

...a company has the right to protect its property how it seems fit, you as a consumer have the ability to decide if you are still willing to support said property.

While that's technically true, the game copy you buy is not their property, and they are not protecting your game from anyone.

In another thread, I likened DRM to a security guard who stands at the exit of a store, going through everyone's pockets before they can leave, regardless of how innocent you might be. Except this guard's half blind, and the actual thieves learn how to bypass him only a day after he is put in place. But his boss just tells him to carry on digging through peoples pockets, even though he's not catching the thieves and is just pissing the customers off.

DRM doesn't work, and it's a drum that people like EA should stop beating.

"If not, then how comes every game, regardless of DRM, is always available to download illegally - usually barely hours after release? How exactly does DRM punish anyone except the consumer, then?"

^^ Well obviously because people want shit for free.... You've proved the your own thought wrong with, "regardless of DRM/ still available for download Illegally" Its not Punishing the consumer, the consumer has a product that they have paid for. I not sure how to put it any simpler. The term "consumer" kinda implies that you know consumption of said property. they got what they came for, bought the ticket ect

For the rest, "the game copy you buy is not their property" ,well yes the game you buy is still their property...the physical disk is yours but any info laser-ed on to said disk is their property, and they have the right to make sure its not distributed in ways they don't want. "and they are not protecting your game from anyone" they in some aspects are protecting your copy seeing how your technically paying for a key and no-one else can use said key, I like your analogy about the security guard but it doesn't really hold up in some areas.

 

[Vetta E-dom]

Would you mind describing to me how this is Anti Consumer DRM? I have yet to see how this falls under those lines, but would like to know more?

To add to the other guy's list;

You have to rely on EA's servers, which are unreliable.

You have to queue if your "server is full".

You will have to stop playing if they restart the servers.

If they ever turn the servers off, your game is a brick.

-----

And all that, when pirates will just crack the game so it thinks it's logged on when it isn't. Or perhaps even manage to connect to the EA servers through some trickery.

DRM only punishes the consumer. No one else.

All you've done is describe anything that can happen to any online game.. that's not exactly the same as DRM,

Also DRM does not just punish the consumer, yeah sometimes its Iffie/a burden but a company has the right to protect its property how it seems fit, you as a consumer have the ability to decide if you are still willing to support said property.

Again, Sim City wasn't an online game in the first place, it doesn't have to be an online game. Would be different if you were talking about League of Legends being online only, because that's the point of the game.

Aggressive DRM has never deterred anyone from pirating a game once it's cracked in one or two weeks. It only hurts the paying customer.

All people are going to say to this is "But the game was DESIGNED to be online! It's a multiplayer game, just like am MMO!"

To all those people, I really doubt they've played the fucking thing. I did the beta in a region with some other people, I basically just forgot they were there and played by myself. If this is a multiplayer game, then so is a bunch of people sitting in a room playing solitaire at their own tables.

That reminds me of this hilarious story about this time I did a quest back in WOW all by my self, and upon completion shot off an angry letter to blizzard cussing them out for not requiring me to group for said quest....

I mean the nerve of these people right, offering various styles of game-play wile still requiring an internet connection...what has gaming become?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Its 45 gorram pounds. So no. Not yet. Not by any means. Im not spending more than 25 pounds on this. Its just FAR too expensive. Even though it looks amazing and fun.

 

[Weaver]

Would you mind describing to me how this is Anti Consumer DRM? I have yet to see how this falls under those lines, but would like to know more?

To add to the other guy's list;

You have to rely on EA's servers, which are unreliable.

You have to queue if your "server is full".

You will have to stop playing if they restart the servers.

If they ever turn the servers off, your game is a brick.

-----

And all that, when pirates will just crack the game so it thinks it's logged on when it isn't. Or perhaps even manage to connect to the EA servers through some trickery.

DRM only punishes the consumer. No one else.

All you've done is describe anything that can happen to any online game.. that's not exactly the same as DRM,

Also DRM does not just punish the consumer, yeah sometimes its Iffie/a burden but a company has the right to protect its property how it seems fit, you as a consumer have the ability to decide if you are still willing to support said property.

Again, Sim City wasn't an online game in the first place, it doesn't have to be an online game. Would be different if you were talking about League of Legends being online only, because that's the point of the game.

Aggressive DRM has never deterred anyone from pirating a game once it's cracked in one or two weeks. It only hurts the paying customer.

All people are going to say to this is "But the game was DESIGNED to be online! It's a multiplayer game, just like am MMO!"

To all those people, I really doubt they've played the fucking thing. I did the beta in a region with some other people, I basically just forgot they were there and played by myself. If this is a multiplayer game, then so is a bunch of people sitting in a room playing solitaire at their own tables.

That reminds me of this hilarious story about this time I did a quest back in WOW all by my self, and upon completion shot off an angry letter to blizzard cussing them out for not requiring me to group for said quest....

I mean the nerve of these people right, offering various styles of game-play wile still requiring an internet connection...what has gaming become?

There is no "various styles of play" in SimCity. You never feel like you're playing with people, you feel like you're playing beside them.

 

[gideonkain]

No, don't touch it with a f**king barge pole

Actual gameplay footage by SWIM:

Yep, No other game in the history of gaming has ever had server issues day one, completely unreasonable!

Of course, but I criticise those games just as much. For a game that should not be exclusively multiplayer, this is an appalling standard. Look what I did just now, I picked up simcity 2000 from gog.com and I could play it perfectly well without having to log into EA's server first. That's the sort of smooth pick up and play experience one should expect from a game even on release day.

I think the big issue is that a few years ago to play a single player game you had to "Press Start to Play" not authenticate on a server that perpetually hangs over your head like the Sword of Damocles where at any moment you might disconnect and lose progress.

 

[ThriKreen]

Not only that, but the implication that Sim City 2013 is unmoddable.

Actually they said they'd look at adding mod support, which would probably be in the vein of client side graphic overrides, basically reskins that only you can see (i.e. make all buses look like Catbus).

Having been on the dev side of game tools, I know it's like 50% working and full of legacy code and references, maybe some swear words in the comments, and no error checking or help messages. So it'll take awhile for them to clean things up for release.

Also expect the process to be more complicated due to the way building assets are made. You can expect more involved animations not just for the building itself, but how it is built, lighting, and materials, compared to previous SimCities where it's like... the one sprite render view and that's it.

So, Catbuses, moving trucks look like Optimus Prime, what else can I do?

 

[Weaver]

Not only that, but the implication that Sim City 2013 is unmoddable.

Actually they said they'd look at adding mod support, which would probably be in the vein of client side graphic overrides, basically reskins that only you can see (i.e. make all buses look like Catbus).

Having been on the dev side of game tools, I know it's like 50% working and full of legacy code and references, maybe some swear words in the comments, and no error checking or help messages. So it'll take awhile for them to clean things up for release.

Also expect the process to be more complicated due to the way building assets are made. You can expect more involved animations not just for the building itself, but how it is built, lighting, and materials, compared to previous SimCities where it's like... the one sprite render view and that's it.

So, Catbuses, moving trucks look like Optimus Prime, what else can I do?

I don't personally count skins as mods.

I imagine people want things more like the Network Addon Mod for SC4, which was essentially a massive re-working and addition to the transportation system and a re-write of the logic and how the traffic network functioned in the game. That kind of mod will simply not be possible in the new SimCity, and it's a shame that's the case.

 

[Cyfu]

-Snip-

Man, I had a good time reading your posts

-snip-

Huh, that video was really informative. thanks.

-snip-

I will check out SimCity 4. I love games like this, so if that's any good I have to try it.

I think I won't buy this one... seems there was a lot more bullshit with this game than I thought so SimCity doesn't deserve my money. and for anyone who is thinking about pirating (don't think there's many here who pirate), just don't. They will just use the statistics to justify more DRM.

Thanks a lot to everyone who answered, you helped me a lot

 

[Kmadden2004]

And I welcome the whining to continue, until people like EA stop trying to grind the industry into dust with their incompetence.

You've heard it all already. You know it doesn't fix anything. You know it only punishes the paying customers.

So it has to stop. I'm sorry that you're frustrated with people trying to stand up for themselves.

Also DRM does not just punish the consumer

If not, then how comes every game, regardless of DRM, is always available to download illegally - usually barely hours after release? How exactly does DRM punish anyone except the consumer, then?

...a company has the right to protect its property how it seems fit, you as a consumer have the ability to decide if you are still willing to support said property.

While that's technically true, the game copy you buy is not their property, and they are not protecting your game from anyone.

In another thread, I likened DRM to a security guard who stands at the exit of a store, going through everyone's pockets before they can leave, regardless of how innocent you might be. Except this guard's half blind, and the actual thieves learn how to bypass him only a day after he is put in place. But his boss just tells him to carry on digging through peoples pockets, even though he's not catching the thieves and is just pissing the customers off.

DRM doesn't work, and it's a drum that people like EA should stop beating.

"If not, then how comes every game, regardless of DRM, is always available to download illegally - usually barely hours after release? How exactly does DRM punish anyone except the consumer, then?"

^^ Well obviously because people want shit for free.... You've proved the your own thought wrong with, "regardless of DRM/ still available for download Illegally" Its not Punishing the consumer, the consumer has a product that they have paid for. I not sure how to put it any simpler. The term "consumer" kinda implies that you know consumption of said property. they got what they came for, bought the ticket ect

For the rest, "the game copy you buy is not their property" ,well yes the game you buy is still their property...the physical disk is yours but any info laser-ed on to said disk is their property, and they have the right to make sure its not distributed in ways they don't want. "and they are not protecting your game from anyone" they in some aspects are protecting your copy seeing how your technically paying for a key and no-one else can use said key, I like your analogy about the security guard but it doesn't really hold up in some areas.

Sure, the consumer may have a product that they paid for, but when they can't get access to said product specifically because of the DRM that's installed into the software, that's when it becomes anti-consumer.

Here's the thing; if EA had just put this game out there as Sim City Online, and actively marketed it as some kind of MMO, I don't think people would be as frustrated over it. If anything they'd probably be more dismissive and say something along the lines of "Well that's nice, there's an MMO version, when's the real Sim City 5 coming out?". The social/multiplayer aspect is absolutely fine as an option, but when it actively hinders the single-player experience in the way it has here, then the consumer is entitled to complain about it. Especially when the game in question is the sequel to a series that has always been exclusively about the single-player experience.

The analogy I'd use for this scenario would be buying a brand new car, but not being given the keys to the ignition. Instead, anytime you want to drive the thing, you have to call up the dealership so that somebody can come round with the keys, and then sit in the passenger seat while you drive around in the car that you bought. If the dealership is shut, like if it's the weekend, or a holiday, or four o'clock in the morning, then tough sh-t.

 

[Vetta E-dom]

-Snip-

Man, I had a good time reading your posts

-snip-

Huh, that video was really informative. thanks.

-snip-

I will check out SimCity 4. I love games like this, so if that's any good I have to try it.

I think I won't buy this one... seems there was a lot more bullshit with this game than I thought so SimCity doesn't deserve my money. and for anyone who is thinking about pirating (don't think there's many here who pirate), just don't. They will just use the statistics to justify more DRM.

Thanks a lot to everyone who answered, you helped me a lot

If you like city building and things of the such check out the ANNO series, I believe Anno 2070 is the most recent,

I used to play them a ways back when it was Anno 1602 and really like them a lot, and had no clue they were still making them.

 

[Fourspaces]

With all the drawbacks and hoops to jump through, changes to the game, and the fact that simcity 4 is still a great game, I dont see how Simcity 5 is worth a buy.

 

[Don Incognito]

and for anyone who is thinking about pirating (don't think there's many here who pirate), just don't. They will just use the statistics to justify more DRM.

Also this. This is the other side of the DRM nightmare. If we stopped turning a blind eye to pirates, maybe these companies wouldn't be so tempted to mar their products.

 

[Don Incognito]

If you like city building and things of the such check out the ANNO series, I believe Anno 2070 is the most recent,

I used to play them a ways back when it was Anno 1602 and really like them a lot, and had no clue they were still making them.

Anno 2070 is quite good, as is Tropico 4. But they aren't city builders in the way SimCity 4 was.

Anno for most difficult, hardcore economic gameplay; Tropico more for just goofing off if a fun environment.

 

[mfeff]

This day n' age though... folk seem to think this stuff is the second coming... Not even sure people like games anymore..?

Oh spare me the back in the day crap. I'm probably older than you, and I liked games then and I like games now. You're right though, people don't seem to like games anymore. They like finding new reasons to hate them.

hahahaha touche! I can't remember the last time someone tried to pull the "age" card on me! -skillful riposte-

Mind you going back to much further than Timex Sinclair and magnetic tapes would make such a comparison irrelevant, other than as a commentary of perspective.

Going around the block with it as a hobby now for what seems like a 3rd of 4th trip, my provisional hypothesis works more from a frame that your late 20's to 40 somethings pulled from a different set of experiences as it relates to "games". Pen and paper... a dice bag... various board games. While the younger crowed seems to pull from a fantasy-comic, Play station 1 or later generation (Xbox) library.

I thought Buck Rogers "Countdown to Doomsday" was pretty slick or any of the myriad of SSI games... which lead to an interesting conversation the other day about game/movie transmedia; specifically Clue.

Notably joking of how some of the scenes in Clue (movie) simply couldn't be done today without some sort of backlash.

It was a better time... a time when products such as "Proteus" had the decency to walk around on it's own as a screen saver, and not call itself a game.


A time of MicroProse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MicroProse_games

Now it seems one has a studio where it becomes a homework assignment to play X-Com... so that those developers are able to go back to work and make X-Com. I wonder how many people that worked on Sim City went back and played Sim City... for the first time.

Is what it is.

As far as sparing you? I didn't post anything about Sim City to you... which begs a certain... how am I supposed to be responsible for how you feel in the 3rd party on a forum?

Now that it is brought up... as far as "this" iteration of Sim City, I haven't said that I "hated" it, not that I recall. I said it wasn't the game for me and gave some reasons why. Just my opinion, on a product, which relates to a hobby I enjoy from time to time. There are some design decisions that perhaps I may of gone a different way on... maybe it works out for em.

The series and perhaps the genre? has been "going" this way for some years... it does not really surprise me. Sim City with societies, Civilization, Railroads (Tycoon), all have been massaged into a package that I assume many marketing people have spent many countless hours researching to maximize market penetration.

As this has happened the cross-over of media and branding gives one a rather derivative product. Focus left "game" a long time ago, now it is more a question of how much Christopher Nolan can be squeezed into the next Mass Effect without getting sued. The kids like that guy's movies right? Heck lets toss in some Rape... nothing says "game" like Rape. Unless it is specifically about rape... but that is a tangent all it's own.

Bob says the 90's sucked... 2000-> hasn't been much of an improvement. Better stop here before I go Plinkett style!

 

[Akisa]

I've watched a few videos of it and it looks really good and fun. I love games like that.
One thing I hate with it is the always online DRM. I really want the game, but I don't want to support that crap DRM.


What do you think I should do?


And do you think that if SimCity sells well, do you think that DRM like that will be more regular?

EDIT: And I haven't tried Origin yet, but I've heard nothing good about it. Honestly, How bad is it?

I would say no, don't reward anti consumer DRM.

Would you mind describing to me how this is Anti Consumer DRM? I have yet to see how this falls under those lines, but would like to know more?

Alright how do I play offline?

Not sure if you were able to comprehend anti-consumer DRM. Also it was a question as in, Where specifically are the Digital Rights specifically creating issues where consumers of said products are intentionally punished for buying into said rights? Its an online game and your upset because you cant play offline. This isn't anti consumer, this is just more bitching from "Gamers" because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, and for a super cheap price because they deserve such.

I'm not exactly sure what your end goal is here. You don't seem to have any intention of wanting to like or even play the game.

Always online DRM is anti consumer, it prevents people playing offline for a traditionally (and basically still is) single play game. What I recommend to the Topic Creator is to play Sim City 4, as you can play it offline.

 

[Christopher Fisher]

Give it a week at least. Same shit happened with D3.

 

[Rachmaninov]

I've reached an aggravation threshold with the debate many threads ago, so you're getting a relatively short temper from me on the topic. I do apologize for that. I maintain, however, that people storming a thread where the OP is evidently aware of DRM in order to tell him all about the DRM is people just looking for ANY outlet to spew about it. It gets tiring. God forbid I was actually looking for information on the game play, all I'd ever find is people excited to tell me the game contained DRM.

I'm sorry that I pushed that button for you, then.

I personally wasn't intending to use this thread for an agenda regarding DRM, although you might find that hard to believe given my discussion with you so far.

I did give my review of gameplay as well as the DRM, after a post or two in reply to you.

But personally, I think the question "Is it good despite the DRM?" is adequately answered by "No, the DRM ruins it." but I guess that's just a matter of opinion.

Have you? What's a fair amount of time to spend with a sandbox/simulation game in order to have a strong opinion on it? 10 minutes? An hour? With a beta version? I guess it's always possible either you or he stayed up until midnight to play your pre-order copy, and played it all night, and are just now drawing punchy, tired conclusions after your massive SimCity binge. But I think we both know that isn't the case.

You assume again, but actually I have. Admittedly, only perhaps three hours playing it, back in the "open beta" which was really a demo. But I have been reading reviews, opinions and videos extensively, beyond that, because I've been trying to decide whether or not to actually buy the game.

I can't speak for the other guy, though.

DRM doesn't work, and it's a drum that people like EA should stop beating.

You know, I'd actually like to see some metrics on DRM. As much as I loathe EA and think they can't take a breath without inciting a riot through sheer force of stupidity, they didn't get to be a huge corporation through an endless succession of poor decisions. I'm willing to bet that someone somewhere has a pie chart demonstrating that DRM does, in fact, "work" to some extent. It'll be an interesting race between the "We've created the strongest DRM evar!" lobby and the "We stripped all the DRM from this game!" lobby to see which generates more profits. Sadly, I'm almost willing to bet it'll be the former. Motherfuckers who pride themselves on pirating the DRM ridden games tend to pirate the DRM free ones as well.

The difference between "the strongest DRM evar!" and DRM-free is one day. One day of not being downloaded. That going on the example I mention below about Assassin's Creed 3, from the pirate-loathing Ubisoft. One day would amount to some sales, bought by impatient people who couldn't wait until the next day to pirate it, but I don't think that'd count for much.

I'd be interested to see figures, too. And then, against those figures, which I suspect to be small, the number of manhours of hoop-jumping in total made by all the customers who did pay.

You've proved the your own thought wrong with, "regardless of DRM/ still available for download Illegally" Its not Punishing the consumer, the consumer has a product that they have paid for.

I'm not sure how you think I proved my own thought wrong.

Regardless of DRM, it'll still be available for download illegally, so the only effect DRM has is to force the paying consumer to do things like always be online.

Take for example the problem with the servers today. They are full. The paying customers cannot play their game, and that is solely because of the DRM. That is punishing the consumer.

And what does the DRM do to the pirates? It delays them perhaps a day. Take this for example:

Ubisoft delayed Assassin's Creed 3 for a month, on the PC only, so they could plan the DRM so as to avoid piracy.

The result of one month's planning? Assassin's Creed 3 is uploaded to torrent websites one day later. Not exactly what I'd call a victory, but absolutely typical.

Pirates always crack the DRM in no time flat. So by adding requirements like logging in, like verifying codes and maintaining a steady internet connection, you are only making life more difficult for the people who pay, and not the people who don't.

I like your analogy about the security guard but it doesn't really hold up in some areas.

Thanks, I'd be interested in hearing the weaknesses so I might perfect it, if you wouldn't mind. Maybe a PM, if you feel it is too off-topic? Or you can answer it in the thread, I don't mind.

 

[FFP2]

Hold up, hold up, wait just one moment... Let me get this straight.
Is what this guy saying true? You can't alter the terrain AND you can't load/use/make backupsaves? And you only have 10 in total!?
WHAT
THE
FUCK!?

Yup...

But it's all in the name of creating the best multplayer/social game ever so we have to love it!

That's the reason I stick to JRPGs these days.