Shuffling is Not a Formality
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Decent article on shuffling practices this week. (thumbs up)
The one thing I would add is that when you are offered your opponents deck to shuffle do it as you would your own. This completely eliminates any chance of foul play from your opponent and also makes it so that if they "get the nuts draw" that you can be assured that it wasn't because of what they've done. A simple cutting the deck doesn't suffice!
The one thing I would add is that when you are offered your opponents deck to shuffle do it as you would your own. This completely eliminates any chance of foul play from your opponent and also makes it so that if they "get the nuts draw" that you can be assured that it wasn't because of what they've done. A simple cutting the deck doesn't suffice!
During declare attackers when you receive priority after attackers are declared. Of course they can also bolt it and prevent it from blocking but that's the last time you are able to do so.
Over time, I've adopted the Haiku shuffle: Three pile shuffles, with 5-7-5 piles, with a several riffle shuffles in between. It works well enough.
Mana weaving seems like a pretty chump way to stack the deck in your favour and I would imagine, though I do not know, that this would be at the very least frowned upon in official play. Outside of official play, I suppose it would only matter to your play group, but I still think it's a dinkish way to "shuffle". And anyway, as you point out, if you mana weave then shuffle, you're either just clumping cards together or randomizing things anyway.
My play group doesn't engage in any shuffling shenanigans, but then again we are strictly casual and just for fun. We all use sleeves so we just alternate between mash shuffling and overhand shuffles and then cut each other's deck before draw. We also play pretty loosely that anytime you have either no basic lands or all lands you may mulligan without penalty. Otherwise we end up with games that just aren't fun for one player, though this happens less in multiplayer games. But in a two player game we feel there's no point in even playing the match if one player gets mana screwed. It's usually a blow out, over in just a few minutes, so rather than wasting time playing out a lopsided match we just opt to have all players relatively happy with their starting hands, within reason.
Since we just play, shuffle, play, shuffle... etc. our cards are generally random enough that no one worries about trying to make sure lands are evenly distributed throughout their deck.
In the end, when it comes right down to it, truly random cards should include stretches where you draw multiple lands in a row (which, given your hand can be beneficial) or none at all even more often, granting that you're playing a 60 card deck with approx. 20 lands.
My play group doesn't engage in any shuffling shenanigans, but then again we are strictly casual and just for fun. We all use sleeves so we just alternate between mash shuffling and overhand shuffles and then cut each other's deck before draw. We also play pretty loosely that anytime you have either no basic lands or all lands you may mulligan without penalty. Otherwise we end up with games that just aren't fun for one player, though this happens less in multiplayer games. But in a two player game we feel there's no point in even playing the match if one player gets mana screwed. It's usually a blow out, over in just a few minutes, so rather than wasting time playing out a lopsided match we just opt to have all players relatively happy with their starting hands, within reason.
Since we just play, shuffle, play, shuffle... etc. our cards are generally random enough that no one worries about trying to make sure lands are evenly distributed throughout their deck.
In the end, when it comes right down to it, truly random cards should include stretches where you draw multiple lands in a row (which, given your hand can be beneficial) or none at all even more often, granting that you're playing a 60 card deck with approx. 20 lands.
Holy zombie jesus, can you imagine having to sit across from that guy and play a game against him? Talk about annoying. That's one of the reasons right there I have zero interest in playing in any sort of tournament environment. MtG is just one of those games that brings out the worst behaviour and habits in a large amount of players.Shynobee said:
The first time I saw a friend 'Mana Weaving' I also cried foul. The argument seems to be that they could stack the deck any way they please, indeed one friend even had a designated order for every card in his deck. However if you really wanted to at the start of a game your opponent is allowed to cut or shuffle your deck, and should he/she want to they could restack the deck and possibly land short you.
After that we never put much thought into it and all ended up doing it. Casual play tends to forego a lot of the more strict rules.
After that we never put much thought into it and all ended up doing it. Casual play tends to forego a lot of the more strict rules.
The first time I saw a friend 'Mana Weaving' I also cried foul. The argument seems to be that they could stack the deck any way they please, indeed one friend even had a designated order for every card in his deck. However if you really wanted to at the start of a game your opponent is allowed to cut or shuffle your deck, and should he/she want to they could restack the deck and possibly land short you.
After that we never put much thought into it and all ended up doing it. Casual play tends to forego a lot of the more strict rules.
After that we never put much thought into it and all ended up doing it. Casual play tends to forego a lot of the more strict rules.
I wouldn't be intimidated so much by his shuffling, but by his actual MtG skills.Zom-B said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kibler#Magic:_The_Gathering
EDIT: I think I totally misunderstood your post, and for that, there's this:
http://magiccards.info/query?q=stop+that&v=card&s=cname
Yup, that card would definitely be seen in my decks if I were to play against guys like Brian Kibler. And yeah, I wouldn't dispute that he is probably a very good player and most likely better than me. Then again, I'm not a pro and I don't build decks to crush people, I build decks that are fun to play within my play group's meta game. 
A quick look at the comprehensive rules for magic (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules) reveals this:
103.1. At the start of a game, each player shuffles his or her deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut his or her opponents? decks.
As a result of shuffling, the cards in a deck must be in a completely random order. If they are not, then that's cheating. You should tell your opponent this, and, in any form of organised play, you should inform a judge.
Do note, however, that you are allowed to shuffle your opponent's deck after he has shuffled it: If you suspect or know that your opponent has stacked his deck usuing the 'mana weaving' technique, then simply deal his deck out into three piles, and place each pile on top of the other. This will have the effect of clumping all of his land together in his deck. This is entirely legal; and it's illegal for him to reshuffle his deck after you have done so.
103.1. At the start of a game, each player shuffles his or her deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut his or her opponents? decks.
As a result of shuffling, the cards in a deck must be in a completely random order. If they are not, then that's cheating. You should tell your opponent this, and, in any form of organised play, you should inform a judge.
Do note, however, that you are allowed to shuffle your opponent's deck after he has shuffled it: If you suspect or know that your opponent has stacked his deck usuing the 'mana weaving' technique, then simply deal his deck out into three piles, and place each pile on top of the other. This will have the effect of clumping all of his land together in his deck. This is entirely legal; and it's illegal for him to reshuffle his deck after you have done so.
Absolutely correct on both counts! It's a great practice to always shuffle your opponent's deck. In fact, at higher REL, it is required.TheGuy(wantstobe) said:
At Competitive and Professional REL tournaments, players are required to shuffle their opponents' decks after their owners have shuffled them. (Section 3.9 [http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/WPN/Main/Documents/Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules_PDF2.pdf])
This makes it your responsibility to ensure that your opponent's cards are randomized, and puts the same burden on them. Of course, in the off-chance that your opponent objects to your shuffling their cards, just call a Judge.
I suspect that it's just me, but I find that habit absolutely mesmerizing when done as proficiently as it is there.Shynobee said:
Definitely. Assuming you actually shuffle your deck afterwards, mana shuffling is little more than superstition. As far as I know, there's no rules against it in any level of competitive play, since both you and your opponent are both required to actually randomize your deck, so the starting position of the cards is inconsequential to the resulting random pile. You might get some funny looks, but I don't imagine you'd get formally reprimanded.Zom-B said:
We also tend to play with friendly mulligan rules to ensure a reasonable match. It's never fun to waste 10 minutes of an hour-long lunch break on a game that's got a clear winner from the opening hand.
I just mash shuffle and try to make it look fancy by fanning the cards so they slide in on their own.
And a lesson for you all, at a free tourney on saturday a kid got a retroactive match loss because he waited till he was losing game 3 to call a judge because his opponent was running delvers in white sleeves. Moral is always use checklists even if your sleeves are unpossible to see through, you won't always get lucky with an idiot.
And a lesson for you all, at a free tourney on saturday a kid got a retroactive match loss because he waited till he was losing game 3 to call a judge because his opponent was running delvers in white sleeves. Moral is always use checklists even if your sleeves are unpossible to see through, you won't always get lucky with an idiot.
This is a recommended read for anyone interested in this at all.MaxFan said:
During the 1st round of a tcgplayer tournament I presented my deck and my opponent called a judge because I had not randomized my deck. At the time I was a new player (I started just after scars came out) This tournament was when new phyrexia was just released and I was playing boros with SMF with swords and batterskull with lightning bolts and landfall creatures.
At the time I had thought my opponent was trying to get a free win but the judge only gave me a warning because it was unintentional and my opponent gave me a basic understanding of how to at least shuffle your deck correctly. At the time his name didn't mean much to me but after getting into magic more I realized just who he was. His name was Michael Flores.
Since then I've had made it a habit to just table shuffle just to make sure my deck is 60 cards and make sure to riffle shuffle often and to do the same for my opponents deck.
So you got paired with Mike Flores in the first round? Talk about tough luck. This is the reason the pros get byes at big official tourneys.jp201 said:
I prefer to mana weave, then re-order by larger clumps (multi-cut), then riffle shuffle several times, alternating with more multi-cut shuffles.
Mana weaving when taking precautions to avoid initial re-integration works great to avoid clumping. While decks are supposed to be "random", you can't achieve perfect randomness in the time and techniques people use to shuffle. So you may as well influence it towards a more even distribution of land then leaving the deck to re-integrate after a play session where all your lands are clumped.
When I'm playing to win, I don't care if my deck is random, that's my opponent's job. I'll shuffle enough for due diligence and to avoid actually stacking it, but the lack of true randomness/thoroughness in shuffling means that leaving resources clumped will work against me more often then for me.
In casual play it doesn't matter, we'll mulligan until everyone has a hand worth playing against. One sided games due to resource deprival/over-abundance aren't fun to play.
Mana weaving when taking precautions to avoid initial re-integration works great to avoid clumping. While decks are supposed to be "random", you can't achieve perfect randomness in the time and techniques people use to shuffle. So you may as well influence it towards a more even distribution of land then leaving the deck to re-integrate after a play session where all your lands are clumped.
When I'm playing to win, I don't care if my deck is random, that's my opponent's job. I'll shuffle enough for due diligence and to avoid actually stacking it, but the lack of true randomness/thoroughness in shuffling means that leaving resources clumped will work against me more often then for me.
In casual play it doesn't matter, we'll mulligan until everyone has a hand worth playing against. One sided games due to resource deprival/over-abundance aren't fun to play.
Yeah... I've gotten into the bad habit of mana-weaving. At my last FNM session, I ended up hitting land clumps at the worst possible times. Had to mulligan thrice at one point.
Now, for an unrelated FAQ question:
Now, for an unrelated FAQ question:
One or more Rage Extractors are currently in play. I cast the spell Act of Aggression, paying its Phyrexian mana cost. I then activate Increasing Vengeance from my graveyard, copying the spell twice. Now, does my opponent take the 5 damage from each individual casting, since Rage Extractor doesn't specify that the mana cost had to be paid? That's a potential 30 or more damage right there.