"Shut up because I'm a soldier!"

[Snoozer]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

 

[Technomage333]

their stupidity is their own curse. its the stupid people who dont know how to adjust to the curve balls life throws at you. its the stupid people who dont know how to protect themselves from fraud.

i once had an argument with a guy while playing DDO over why I wasnt using the voice chat system. after i made my point, his response was to tell me that he served in Iraq, and therefore he was right and i was wrong.

at another point, i was talking about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs with a member of my family who served in the navy most of their life. i said that i thought it was wrong that so many innocent civilians had to die, and their response was "would you rather that a bunch of military personnel like me died in stead?" I really didnt know how to respond to that. i mean seriously? do most members of the military believe that civilians deserve to die and that the people actually doing the fighting deserve to live?

It's not that civilians should die (hence geneva convention and all that) but that the number of people total who would have died in a long extended war with Japan would have been comparable with those killed at once in a single strong show of force.


On topic, I am a soldier and have never used that as reasoning in an argument. I would attribute the OPs experience to the average IQ of many soldiers who I swear picked up an ASVAB waiver somehow! Also on soldiers getting too much respect, I have to say it's actually really awkward when people start thanking you or treating you special.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

I've only seen this attitude trotted out in stuff about Don't Ask Don't Tell. The old "I did a couple tours of duty in Iraq and having open gays around is bad!" which seem to be two entirely different sentences just slammed together with little rhyme or reason.

Not encountered such random military prestige-touting idiots in other areas of discussion, but I would imagine I'd get pretty annoyed with it. Luckily I'm in the UK, so anyone who fought a war is either really old or deceased, and everyone fighting one I can just ignore because them bragging that they were out in the desert shooting people has no impact on me, since I find the entire "war" to be stupid and pointless.

And people mentioning Vietnam service to me? Yeah, that's your own deal dude. If you went and tore shit up in a country that had no real means of fighting you back effectively, that's your own shit. Go be a rampaging yahoo in some other discussion, preferably one about military activity.

In short, I don't need anyone screaming about how many foreign people they've killed when I'm trying to discuss social political issues. Fuck off with that shit.

 

[6unn3r]

Been there done that and the best response to give is:

"I'm a serial killer with 48 kills to my name.....now what were you saying?"

Instant STFU sentance.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

You should just answer:
"I'm Commander Shepard and I do not your argument"

Now, seriously:
Someone who is so desperately in need of arguments that he names his job to support his claim has just lost the case.
Regardless of the topic.
Even if you were discussing the advantages of the shot-gun ballistics versus the Heavy Rifle approach the moment he says he is right because of his job he just fails.
Why? Because even if his job provides him with additional information concerning that specific topic he should be able to explain them to you without the urgency to show off that he is an expert.
TRUE experts don't need to show you a certificate that they are experts in the first place, they should be able to explain (in laymen terms if necessary) why they believe their argument is the better one.
So next time say you're a janitor and you know even more about that topic because of all the old Forbes magazines you read before throwing them away in the dustbin.

 

[TheKmanofAwesometon]

"Unless it's a farm!"

We can all go lurk somewhere else now, no post is going to top this one.

 

[CotF1692]

This has happened to me once. This guy who has to be like 22 and I were arguing about whether or not we could rebuild after a nuclear war. I believed that even if it took an extremely long time and it was total hell that one day we could rebuild after a nuclear holocaust, and even if it wasn't humans some form of life would still find a way. He told me I was wrong because there is absolutely no coming back from a nuke. None what so ever. and he knows this because he served two tours in Iraq. He also tried to argue that the atomic bomb was a god send though and how its basically America's divine sword to fight back evil and such.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

their stupidity is their own curse. its the stupid people who dont know how to adjust to the curve balls life throws at you. its the stupid people who dont know how to protect themselves from fraud.

i once had an argument with a guy while playing DDO over why I wasnt using the voice chat system. after i made my point, his response was to tell me that he served in Iraq, and therefore he was right and i was wrong.

at another point, i was talking about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs with a member of my family who served in the navy most of their life. i said that i thought it was wrong that so many innocent civilians had to die, and their response was "would you rather that a bunch of military personnel like me died in stead?" I really didnt know how to respond to that. i mean seriously? do most members of the military believe that civilians deserve to die and that the people actually doing the fighting deserve to live?

It's not that civilians should die (hence geneva convention and all that) but that the number of people total who would have died in a long extended war with Japan would have been comparable with those killed at once in a single strong show of force.


On topic, I am a soldier and have never used that as reasoning in an argument. I would attribute the OPs experience to the average IQ of many soldiers who I swear picked up an ASVAB waiver somehow! Also on soldiers getting too much respect, I have to say it's actually really awkward when people start thanking you or treating you special.

I have to agree with you there. I wish she would have worded it more like that. She is an intelligent person, but I just found it appalling that in essence her argument was "Im the one jumping in the fire, but someone else should burn for it."

at another point, i was talking about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs with a member of my family who served in the navy most of their life. i said that i thought it was wrong that so many innocent civilians had to die, and their response was "would you rather that a bunch of military personnel like me died in stead?" I really didnt know how to respond to that. i mean seriously? do most members of the military believe that civilians deserve to die and that the people actually doing the fighting deserve to live?

Personally, I would have countered with facts. ~Recently released documentation pertaining to American spies in the Japanese government during that time revealed that the Japanese were strongly considering surrender at that point. They had been negotiating terms so that the royal family could still hold a position, even if it was just as a figurehead. The bombs were dropped because the US got tired of waiting for a consensus to be reached because with the western front won, they feared that the Russians would turn their attention to Japan, and we simply could not let communists use Japan as a base of operations.
In short, we killed a bunch of Japanese civilians because we hated Russia.
Wish that the History channel would go back to covering WWII and stuff, I got this info from PBS. With all the documentation that is being declassified about that period of time, they could really get people to think about our society. Of course, that's why it'll never happen. God forbid someone questions about what was supposedly the most righteous thing our military has ever done.

On topic, ersatz authority figures make me laugh. Congradulations, you served (emphasis on the past tense) in the military. Unless you're currently an active officer, I could care shit less about what you tell me to do. Heck, even then, unless it pertains to a crisis situation, I'm likely to ignore you regardless. Your mastery of the ability to point the shooty end of a gun at something does not make you the authority on animal husbandry. (A skill for which I am told there a limitless uses)

interesting. the more i learn, the more i feel like we did the right thing. there were a lot of factors involved. she cold have mentioned that Japan is a nation of cottage industry, and that bombing civilians is the only way to damage their infrastructure. she could have mentioned that the bombs ultimately cost fewer lives (even Japanese lives alone) compared to an invasion. But she snapped back with a narrow minded and selfish response and was very condescending about it. after all, she is a veteran and i was just a dumb kid.

...

On a side note, Im very close to joining the Navy Reserves. Ill have to deal with a lot of narrow minded people, and a lot of people with differing religious and political views, but I wont hold that against our military as a whole.

 

[Viral_Lola]

I think it's the card that some people pull when they can't back up their point of view. I suppose in their mind, because they were once dodging bullets and risking their lives, they believe that they desire... Nay, demand respect and respect to some of them is always winning arguments.

 

[CrazyJew]

I wonder what the draft here in Israel is going to teach me about economics...

 

[Silverfox99]

Respect the sacrifice the solider has made.

Know that they still can be assholes.

 

[AlphaEcho]

It is not an excuse but most soldiers know not to do things like that.

 

[Mikkaddo]

If I used my job I'd say "I'm a janitor of two years and I clean shit off walls put there by ignorant slob tourists and my opinion of economic reform is this!" See how ridiculous that sounded? That's what I feel when they try to pull their combat history into a discussion that has nothing to do with combat.

But they can do it not get called out on it.

It's the same with football, politicians, celebrities . . . they think that the fact that they've done, or become something "more" than the "normal" people are that they suddenly know more about EVERYTHING on earth regardless of their actual knowledge base. Hell I knew a girl at my last job that flunked out of a political science class that was somehow convinced she knew more about modern politics than me because oh no, her FATHER was a soldier . . . so really it's not even if someone themselves was a soldier, the problem is that idolizing you mentioned at the start.

We idolize them, and we do it SO MUCH that they start to idolize THEMSELVES. That is where the problem stems from. That old man wasn't bringing up his combat history because he thought that held weight, he brought it up because "well I'm a soldier! so I'm a better person than you by default, so I MUST know more about this no matter what!" There's nothing wrong with respecting soldiers, and honestly war veterans in this country have to put up with a LOT of shit, especially right now . . . but they should by no means be thought of as some special group that can never be wrong. If you're a soldier, you know NO MORE now about how politics works than before you entered the military UNLESS PART OF YOUR MILITARY TRAINING WAS CLASSES ON POLITICS. Being in a trench firing pot shots at someone doing the same to you, teaches you NOTHING about the stuffy shirt "oh look how cool I am" politicians back home.

 

[Mikkaddo]

This has happened to me once. This guy who has to be like 22 and I were arguing about whether or not we could rebuild after a nuclear war. I believed that even if it took an extremely long time and it was total hell that one day we could rebuild after a nuclear holocaust, and even if it wasn't humans some form of life would still find a way. He told me I was wrong because there is absolutely no coming back from a nuke. None what so ever. and he knows this because he served two tours in Iraq. He also tried to argue that the atomic bomb was a god send though and how its basically America's divine sword to fight back evil and such.

Ok, let me tear apart his argument because of something I happen to know from being friends with an Iraq veteran.

A tour there was 3 YEARS. You aren't allowed to join the Military untill 18, and if I recall correctly, standard training before you ever go to combat in a less than Def Con 1 situation is about 2 YEARS.

So, he's 22 now right? he joined at 18 because there's no draft, trained for 2 years to reach combat. That makes him 20. So, in the span of 2 years he served 6 years worth of tours in Iraq.

Color me impressed my friend!

 

[Heroes and Cons]

I'm British and have only heard it once or twice, since we don't really idolise soldiers that much here. Personally I don;t give a flying fuck whether someone is shooting terrorists in Afghanistan or growing potatoes in Scotland, it's just a damn career choice - hell, 75% of trainees decided to do it because they like the thought of shooting people in a foregn country, they don't care what the cause is.

In fact, If I'm being brutally honest, the only soldiers I actually respect are the men and women who ACTUALLY believe and fight for the right cause, or sacrifice themsilves or their health to help a fellow man or woman, because that takes a lot of heart and bravery, and the SAS, because they are the best, the elite, the most efficent and highly trained fighting force in the world - something that takes a whole lot of guts and mental strength that most soldiers just don't have, as well as actually truly cariung about fighting for your country... that, and the SAS can kick my arse six ways to sunday.

 

[Hatchet90]

Ninja'd.

OT: I've never encountered this problem, but then again anyone in my class that went into the military I haven't talked to in years so.... maybe they are self righteous morons.

 

[LetalisK]

The military is not immune to social norms. Just like it has compassionate, intelligent, and empathetic people, it also has assholes, idiots, and jackasses. It's just a microcosm of society.

 

[Zhukov]

I've only ever seen people pull that one on the internet, but it irritates the hell out of me.

If the debate is about munitions or combat or something, then sure, being a soldier gives you some authority on the subject. But otherwise... yeah, cheap tactic.

...

In addition, the Aussies had the nerve to go break up the East Timor genocide, that counts for something too.

I feel obliged to point out that we Australians ignored the mess in East Timor for twenty five years before doing anything about it. Also, during that time we made a deal with Indonesia to harvest oil and gas from the Timor sea.

"Unless it's a farm!"

This thread has been won.

 

[Mid-Boss]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

 

[A velociraptor]

If it's a matter of war and the situation is life or death, then the phrase "Shut up, I'm a soldier" will be acceptable; otherwise, like so many other people have said, being an idiot is just being an idiot.