"Shut up because I'm a soldier!"

[Araksardet]

I knew a kid in high school who pulled this, except his dad was a soldier, and taught him all he knew, so clearly, he was just as right as a real soldier.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

What I don't get is how stating that you're a paid killer is supposed to be an appeal to authority on any subject other than killing people.

 

[Slash2x]

Speaking as a former military member...... anyone who uses that in an argument is a moron, and they were morons while they were enlisted probably too.

 

[Mafoobula]

Hi guys! I'm a soldier in the US Army, currently deployed in Afghanistan!
I'm sorry some of my comrades are giant douchebags, but if it's any consolation, I try my level best to be a nice guy all the time. I was a nice guy long before I joined, but that's beside the point. Come to think of it, I'd bet a month's pay that the turds I know now were turds loooooong before the joined.
I'll be the first to admit that my military training gives me a little leverage in some situations... like realistic squad tactics and weapon behavior in movies and games. It's kinda like how I used to be a chef, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to food. But economics? Science? Whether or not a person should be on voice chat while gaming? I know exactly as much as everyone else in the world.

 

[cbert]

My advice to the OP:

Just blame shell shock or severe head trauma or PTSD; give him a salute and stop arguing with the deluded, probably-lying asshat.*

Alternatively, "pics or it didn't happen." That one could backfire; war wounds may turn you off to cottage cheese and cunnilingus simultaneously.

 

[phelan511]

Snip

Well... Let me get this out of the way first. I served my country as well. Did my time in the Army, did a deployment to Iraq. Got into combat, all that. That being said, I don't use my combat experience to win arguments unless it pertains to anything military related. Now I would also like to point out, not every serviceman or servicewoman acts like that. Its sad that alot of the servicemembers you've met do act like that, as they have seemingly painted a picture for you that ALL servicemembers act in that way. I myself and most of the vets Ive been around and served with all have very open minds on things, and we tend to call out folks that are closed minded as well. I'm not saying youre wrong for calling BS when you see it. I applaud that. Just try to be a little more open minded. Now I do try to win arguments all the time, I have that kind of personality, but I use my knowledge that I've gathered through research, personal experience and what not to win, not just the blanket "I carried a rifle so I know what Im talking about" statement.

 

[Snoozer]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

My god! Really? I have no words ... but this explains a lot.

 

[cbert]

*I'm a soldier** so I can say that

**If Amercorps counts for the man at the draft board, it counts online

And nothin but respect for veterans and active women and men in uniform. Our country needs to treat you better.

 

[Mouse One]

Speaking as a former military member...... anyone who uses that in an argument is a moron, and they were morons while they were enlisted probably too.

Seven years Navy here, and agree with the above completely. Although I'll take issue with some of the posters who are stereotyping military members as nothing but "dumb grunts trained to take orders". Like anywhere else, it varies a lot. We had the guys who couldn't figure out which end of the mop to hold and we had some amazingly smart guys, mostly in the technical rates (not saying there were no smart Boatswains mates. I met one once).

I will say that there is a tendency for military guys to get isolated from the civilian population by virtue of where and when they work (the Navy brought new meaning to the word "overtime"). Whenever you get a group of guys who mostly hang out with each other, there's a tendency to believe that you've got the inside track on things. Maybe true when it comes to political factions in Iraq, not so much true if you're talking about economic policy.

 

[Belaam]

As a veteran, you shouldn't necessarily give our words additional weight because we are veterans.

And you have to do that, because I'm a veteran. ;p

Personally, I only play the veteran card when someone is doing something that drives me nuts like supporting candidates who cut military medical benefits while simultaneously having a "support our troops" sticker on their car.

 

[Laser Priest]

I think this is an argument used more by idiots than anything.

To the soldier: Basically, you're willing to throw yourself in the line of fire, and I can respect that. However, you're a moron if you think that's how logic works.

 

[cbert]

As a veteran, you shouldn't necessarily give our words additional weight because we are veterans.

And you have to do that, because I'm a veteran. ;p

Personally, I only play the veteran card when someone is doing something that drives me nuts like supporting candidates who cut military medical benefits while simultaneously having a "support our troops" sticker on their car.

You don't have to be a veteran to point out political hypocrisy.

But it does give you license to egg their house, shoot their mailbox and break their windshield.

(license not valid in all 50 states)

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

This could actually be applied with just about anyone who serves the government or is a member of the judicial system. Although we picture them as champions of justice and freedom, many are often prone to let those titles go to their head and begin to believe that they can justify anything they do or completely ignore the system because they are part of it.

Seriously some of these corrupt individuals need to realize that at the end of the day, they are still human, and every bit as flawed as the people that they face against on the opposing front. They need to acknowledge their faults, leave them at the door, and do their job right.

 

[Belaam]

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

Not necessarily. Only if they want military assistance in making the film. If people are wearing their uniforms correctly and you're getting long, lingering shots of US military as totally awesome (looking at you, Bruckheimer) it's military-approved. If they're in Marine fatigues with Navy insignia, not so much.

If they kiss up enough, they can even get military funding for the movie. The old animated version of Animal Farm was largely funded by the CIA because they thought it would help the anti-communist movement.

 

[Nouw]

Damn it I thought this thread was going to discuss a quote from Starship Troopers. "Soldier, shut up and soldier!"

On topic, a soldier can only pull that card if it is his field of expertise, combat and military-related stuff. Let's say you think that X battle ended in X way. But he says it ended Y way because he was in it. It's safe to say that he's right. Other things like your example don't work.

 

[manaman]

This is just another skewed story. It's presented from one side as that person remembers it.

I don't doubt that the person worked military experience into the situation, but I highly doubt it played out exactly like that, like some kind of trump card with no other relevance to the discussion.

Really it seems the OP and the vet where arguing about something neither of them had any right to be arguing about except from a purely philosophical viewpoint, as neither seemed to have any idea what they where actually talking about.

No, actually the OP was quite right to point out the problem with everyone being millionaires. Incredibly obvious reason why the OP is right: Who is going to be making bread for less than something like $1000 when they're a millionaire?

The goverment spending that money on people rather then corporations is not the same as giving the money away. Yes there is a problem with simply handing a million dollars to everyone, but giving it to corporations in an effort to increase lending and preventing job loss (neither of which has ever proved effective in the past) was a horrendous waste of money.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

My god! Really? I have no words ... but this explains a lot.

No, he's full of shit. The only thing the military does is loan out its equipment to movies under the condition that they depict the US military positively.

 

[Benny Blanco]

I think the thing the OP brought up is valid but have never really encountered it in a specifically military context. Obviously, I'm prepared to take the word of any professional on their field of expertise at higher value, but I don't even think these are necessarily things that people will be 100% right on.

If all professional soldiers were right about every military matter, every unit in every branch of every country's military would do exactly the same thing. Which they don't.

Experts in most fields disagree about their specialist fields. That's how academic discourse works.

 

[gorfias]

This is going to be a touchy subject since we Americans idolize soldiers as much as we do. So I'm going to establish right off the bat that I respect soldiers for what they done and the sacrifices they've made. This wont stop most of the knee jerk reaction I'm sure this will get but maybe some of it.

That being said, I don't think being a soldier automatically means their opinions are right. But they bring up their combat history as if that makes all their opinions right.

I was recently arguing with a very right wing old man who stated "If Obama had given us all that bail out money every American would be a millionaire right now!"

And I said "But if we were all millionaires then a load of bread would cost a thousand dollars."

"I'm a soldier and I had three tours in Vietnam and that's not how it works."

Long awkward pause because, I too, respect soldiers and I wondered if I should pursue this or just let it go.... But fuck this guy. I don't care if you're Superman, stupidity is stupidity. So I said "It's called INFLATION. The more money we have the more things cost! If everyone had ten times more money then everything would COST ten times more. It's basic economics."

The argument went on and skewed off into other subjects like how he thought the rich shouldn't be taxed at all because they give us jobs and we should honor them for that etc etc etc. But the sticking point for me was... He brought up his combat history repeatedly as if killing people in Vietnam made his opinion more correct than mine. And he got very... VERY upset that no matter how many times he brought up that he was a soldier, I wouldn't back down.

Honestly, he's not the only one. I've seen soldiers bring up that they are soldiers, their tours, etc many times as a way to establish their own credibility.

If I used my job I'd say "I'm a janitor of two years and I clean shit off walls put there by ignorant slob tourists and my opinion of economic reform is this!" See how ridiculous that sounded? That's what I feel when they try to pull their combat history into a discussion that has nothing to do with combat.

But they can do it not get called out on it.

Ann Coulter often claims the left does this, not by stating, "I"m a soldier" but that, "I'm a victim" and we're all supposed to shut off our brains and shut our mouths: someone with better credentials has spoken and we just better shut our mouths.

I think posting cred is helpful (ie as a dentist, I think flouride in the water has been good for people's teeth, etc.) and we should listen to them for what the statements are worth. But of course, you have, as any debater does, an obligation to weigh the statement and cred for its value (as a baker, I find think that cable TV regulation goes too far).

 

[Viirin]

He brought up his combat history repeatedly as if killing people in Vietnam made his opinion more correct than mine.

Come now, we're all gamers here. His opinions might not be more right than yours, but since he killed more people than you, he IS higher level.