-Sigh- Dead Island...

[Inkidu]

I say that right there is the technicality. I don't think you really lose the individuality, especially when they do it well. I find myself ignoring levels though most of the time. It doesn't matter that my Shepard is level twenty. What matters is I've just finished upping X skill. So yeah, you can say that everyone just calls levels different names, but I honestly think they're a technicality, some kind of formality really.

You've just finished upping the level of your skill

Zounds, it's worse than I thought! That's kind of my point. It's become such a permeating word in gamerdom that it's kind of lost all its original meaning, or at least transcended it.

It's just very easy of me not to think in terms of levels these days, and I grew up with Final Fantasy and Pokemon. Games where level was literally around every corner.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

I was not fond of level scaling in Oblivion and I doubt I'll like it in this game. Just let monsters and enemies be a set level and waste me if I'm too low level or be pushovers if I'm higher level.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Level scaling is awesome it keeps the game interesting for me. It''s a shame you don't like it.

To me in those games gaining levels means fun new skills. What's the point in being really powerful if you only get attacked by weak monsters? :|

 

[2733]

I haven't played this game (yet) so I don't know, but you could try changing tactics. blitz attacks, evade and flee, or singling out lone enemies could give you the edge you need.

well it worked in fallout and oblivion anyway.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Sounds like the same problems as Borderlands. I hated how just because an enemy was three levels higher it took ten thousand headshots just to kill.

 

[Callate]

Cliff Racers. (*twitch* *twitch*)

Done poorly, level scaling is an abomination. Even done with some thought, it can very easily lead to stunting the player's sense of accomplishment and progress. When it's reduced to obvious numbers (you're encountering this monster every 30 seconds rather than every minute, you're encountering three rather than one, they have 200 hit points rather than 50) I tend to find it lazy and off-putting, a cheap way to lengthen game time and add artificial challenge (now with 50% less calories than real challenge!)

I tend to feel that good games work towards breadth rather than just number-scaling. Rather than "You have a level 3 axe to do comparable amounts of damage to a level 3 goblin to what you were doing with a level 1 axe to a level 1 goblin" you get, "Okay, you've gotten good at taking out goblins with your bow before they get close, but now you're dealing with these wyvern things that attack from the air and rush out of reach of your weapons, and they're hard to get a bead on long enough to hit, and if it hits you twice for every time you hit it like you've been doing, you're going to lose. What about that area-affect cold spell you just learned? It will cost most of your mana- which you won't have available for the rest of the fight- but it will slow the creature down long enough to even the odds."

Give the player a sense of increasing mastery, you earn their appreciation. Give them little more than a bunch of numbers, eventually even people who love hard-core stats eventually start to feel they're playing a spreadsheet.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

I've seen a few walkthroughs and the whole level scaling mechanic really takes away from the experience of fighting off zombies. Every zombie should be capable of killing you with a few hits and a horde of zombies spells death. Its pretty pointless when you can kick and curb stomp a zombie to death (although it seems fun, the moment is soon gone rather quickly) and you don't fear a group of zombies because they are Level 2 zombies.

The only indication of danger should be either the sheer number of zombies coming at you (L4D) or the type of zombie your are confronted with (RE). The only leveling up aspects that this game should have been limited to is your stamina, specialties, abilities, and upgradeable/customizable weapons.

Even if these changes were implemented, the whole atmosphere seems wrong for a horror survivor game. The zombies are just THERE, the island isn't completely deserted (the most survivors that I have ever seen in a zombie outbreak), the frights are predictable, and everything you could possibly need is laying around in abundance.

I don't mean to be critical, but there is a big difference between playing a zombie game and playing a game with zombies in it, and unfortunately, Dead Island is the latter.

BTW, I liked the earlier title art (a man hanging from a nose) because it conveyed a more emotional impact (people killing themselves to prevent themselves from turning into zombies or being victims of zombie attacks), but I guess the whole "emotional" concept was just thrown out the window with the zombie girl from the earlier trailer. Seriously, when you wake up, go the left and you see the family from the trailer dead.

 

[Booze Zombie]

If there's one thing Oblivion did right with level scaling, it was scaling loot to the levels, too.

 

[Kagim]

As others have said, the whole idea of levels should have just been trashed. Skill point every experience level and maybe more stamina. That's it.

Level scaling honestly does make leveling stats pointless so it would seem to be smarter to just not have stats.

However, dead island for me is still a good game. I enjoy it since it is so far the closest a game has gotten to my idea of a perfect zombie game, but just not there and stumbles a few times here or there. Still worth the money, still worth the time I am going to spend playing it.

The only thing that bugs me so far is things respawn that really, really shouldn't. So far every item i have run into respawns after a short period of time, and i can very easily make water runs and just do mass turn ins for exp and money. Worst though, is the pink truck.

Early in the game you find a pink truck crashed into a cabin, you save the wife inside. I did this by hopping in the truck and driving her to the medic station. When i walked back to check on the chicks husband like she asked the truck was back. Later on i was driving a truck from the lighthouse and left it parked while i did a mission. Came back it was gone. After chuckling the first time this happened at the ideas of a zombie joy riding in it the third time my vehicle god damn vanished I was fairly pissed off.

The main problem i had with this is it takes away the feeling of starvation. Your not running on scraps trying to survive. Your surrounded by a cornucopia of stuff. So while a horde of zombies might mean your death so far i can usually get around with no real fear. Which takes away.

While i have complained a fair bit about this please note I am comparing it against the game i have written out and planned for my true idea of a zombie game. So i am being kinda unfair to it. Dead Island is still a really fun game. It's a good step towards a true survival style game. However like most games that try it missed a few critical steps and just isn't there yet. I still really recommend it.

 

[Ascarus]

Soooooo , what you prefer that enemies always be weaker than you and the game becomes L4D on easy mode?

yes, that is exactly what they are saying. they want all time EZ MODE. thank god you were here to dive into the swirling complexity of the OPs post to dig that out for us, because i was helplessly lost as to what OP was really trying to say.

 

[kane.malakos]

Sounds like the same problems as Borderlands. I hated how just because an enemy was three levels higher it took ten thousand headshots just to kill.

I actually had the opposite problem in Borderlands. I did all of the sidequests obsessively, so by the middle of the game I was always about five levels over the suggested level for the quest. Didn't exactly stay challenging.

OT: Level scaling kind of sucks. Compare Oblivion to Morrowind. In Morrowind, there were some enemies that you just couldn't take on until you were a fairly high level. For example, it's a very, very bad idea to go to a Daedric temple if you're a level 1 character. As you leveled up, you would encounter stronger enemies more often out in the wild, but they weren't just the same old bandits who now miraculously have maxed-out stats and a full set of glass or daedric armor. In Oblivion you can actually end up better off staying at a really low level, which kind of misses the point.

 

[kouriichi]

Im level 30 right now. Ive had no problem with the game, nor the level scaling.
Its a GOOD thing this game is difficult.

In fact, quite a bit of my equipment is underlevel. But because you can repair and upgrade your equipment, you can extend their lifetime massively. They also give you your RAGE which you should spam whenever you have it. It saves you durability on you weapons, gives you extra exp, and extends the total time you can spend out on the field.

I have died a few times, but its been my fault for it. Like letting a Ram back me in a small corner so it can kick me to death. Or running headfirst at a group of walkers, while ignoring the infected chasing me.

Dead Island may be one of my games of the year. Its a challenge. And i like a challenge. Complaining "OMG my weapons broke!" isnt a valid argument. You should carry more weapons, have them properly repaired and upgraded, and avoid combat when its not necessary. You dont have to fight every zombie you see all the time. Sometimes just running past them. or finding an alternate route is the best idea.

Also, you should keep an eye out of chests. No matter when level you are, they keep leveled weapons in them. If you go back to the level 1 or 2 zone, and run out of weapons, look for weapon chests. Simple.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Soooooo , what you prefer that enemies always be weaker than you and the game becomes L4D on easy mode?

Well, you could introduce new enemies, increase the frequency of the weaker ones, allow them new tactics and weapons.

It's progression, something good games have been doing since... well.. forever.

Take Metroid Prime, near the beginning you are introduced to Baby Sheegoths. They spawn and attack in ones and twos and take a brief firefight to defeat. As the Baby moniker suggests, you eventually run into mum, who equates to a full scale boss fight and takes several minutes to put down.

But that's the beginning of the game, by the mid point, babies aren't a huge problem, you have a weapon that can stun them. Mum still presents a significant threat, but you have new abilities that mean you can avoid them and move on if necessary. Unfortunately, by this point you've met the Space Pirate in force, they have guns, lots of gun.

By the end, Baby Sheegoth is a nothing, you have the plasma beam and you can vaporise them in one charged shot. Adult Sheegoths are still a threat, but you have the fire power to kill them fast.
Unfortunately, you're now facing Space Pirate specialists and Hunter Metroids (amongst other, worse stuff). You may have all weapons, all the abilities and all the upgrades, but you're going to need them all and a healthy dose of skill to put these highly durable opponents down.

Progression!

It's even easy to apply to a game like Dead Island.
To start with you only have weak, freshly infected civilians, then as the infection progresses they get strongerand basic enemies get more more numerous. Then the military arrives to clean up, you included because better safe than sorry, so now you have zombies, strong zombies and humans wearing armour with guns.

Later on, the infection is well established and it has spread to the soldiers on the island. So now you have zombies, strong zombies and those two types wearing armour/carrying weapons plus the human enemies and since time has passed you can introduce more specialised infected and mini boss type enemies. Plus the 'normal' infected spawn in groups of twenty plus so even though you can carve them down individually, you still can't just run'n'gun through the map.


Having the same enemies get stronger on an arbitrary basis (you're level two, so now all enemies are level two), is insultingly lazy developing. If they're always going to be that hard to kill, why have a levelling system at all? Just keep everyone at the base level since relative to each other it will remain the same regardless of level anyway.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I was forced to scavenge weapons in order to survive.

Almost like a zombie game.

I kid, it sounds like there have been some annoying playtimes for you. I have to ask though, did you approach the game with an open mind, or had you heard nothing but bad reviews? Not criticising you or anything, genuinely asking.

 

[nappa82]

Its a survival RPG! Here let me go get a game that will spoon feed you easy mode so you can run through it like Deus Ex:HR.... (LOL thats a low blow I know and I liked Deus Ex:HR but it was too easy.) You smack undead non feeling creatures to death with ordinary things you find in the world and expect them not to break??? WHAT!? Oh and do me a favor go scavenge your neighborhood and then come back and tell me how many guns/bullets you found... yea I bet none. This game was not designed for the silver spoon feeding kids that love WOW or Crysis 2 type of games. Welcome to something close to what all games used to be like where you have to actually work and think for yourself... OMG NO I cant think on my own!!

The leveling in this game is just fine and keeps the game challenging. The weapons IMO level at a pace just shy of current to keep you surviving. OH no my purple brass knuckles of doom just broke! Now your forced to fend off zombies with wooden planks and oars laying around a vacation resort. I think it makes the game alot more fun to have that kind of challenge rather then being able to kill a zombie in 1 hit. JUST MY 2 CENTS!! (Don't get mad.. Get glad!)

 

[Kopikatsu]

Im level 30 right now. Ive had no problem with the game, nor the level scaling.
Its a GOOD thing this game is difficult.

In fact, quite a bit of my equipment is underlevel. But because you can repair and upgrade your equipment, you can extend their lifetime massively. They also give you your RAGE which you should spam whenever you have it. It saves you durability on you weapons, gives you extra exp, and extends the total time you can spend out on the field.

I have died a few times, but its been my fault for it. Like letting a Ram back me in a small corner so it can kick me to death. Or running headfirst at a group of walkers, while ignoring the infected chasing me.

Dead Island may be one of my games of the year. Its a challenge. And i like a challenge. Complaining "OMG my weapons broke!" isnt a valid argument. You should carry more weapons, have them properly repaired and upgraded, and avoid combat when its not necessary. You dont have to fight every zombie you see all the time. Sometimes just running past them. or finding an alternate route is the best idea.

Also, you should keep an eye out of chests. No matter when level you are, they keep leveled weapons in them. If you go back to the level 1 or 2 zone, and run out of weapons, look for weapon chests. Simple.

I actually have my inventory completely filled with max upgraded green, orange, and blue weapons. However, I've learned to completely disregard them unless I'm fighting something other than Walkers/Infected. Kick to the face + Crouch and punch them in the face gives you a ton of XP (Barehanded punches apparently give XP for some reason), kills them quickly, and doesn't use up weapon durability.

I call it bad game design when level scaling makes weapons 80+% irrelevant.

I was forced to scavenge weapons in order to survive.

Almost like a zombie game.

I kid, it sounds like there have been some annoying playtimes for you. I have to ask though, did you approach the game with an open mind, or had you heard nothing but bad reviews? Not criticising you or anything, genuinely asking.

I don't actually read/watch reviews because they're mostly subjective. (I say mostly because something like Superman 64 is shit and everyone realizes that.)

And I bought it the day it came out, so I hadn't had a chance to hear anything about it either. I didn't even know about the whole Steam fiasco until I was on Chapter 3. Refer to my first response in this post, though. I've learned to completely ignore weapons and go beat hordes of zombies to death with my bare hands whilst taking zero damage. That goes far beyond Survival Horror/RPG and straight back into Dead Rising territory.

Its a survival RPG! Here let me go get a game that will spoon feed you easy mode so you can run through it like Deus Ex:HR.... (LOL thats a low blow I know and I liked Deus Ex:HR but it was too easy.) You smack undead non feeling creatures to death with ordinary things you find in the world and expect them not to break??? WHAT!? Oh and do me a favor go scavenge your neighborhood and then come back and tell me how many guns/bullets you found... yea I bet none. This game was not designed for the silver spoon feeding kids that love WOW or Crysis 2 type of games. Welcome to something close to what all games used to be like where you have to actually work and think for yourself... OMG NO I cant think on my own!!

The leveling in this game is just fine and keeps the game challenging. The weapons IMO level at a pace just shy of current to keep you surviving. OH no my purple brass knuckles of doom just broke! Now your forced to fend off zombies with wooden planks and oars laying around a vacation resort. I think it makes the game alot more fun to have that kind of challenge rather then being able to kill a zombie in 1 hit. JUST MY 2 CENTS!! (Don't get mad.. Get glad!)

See the first response. It's not a matter of the game being fun and challenging when the easiest method of dealing with 80+% of threats is 'L2, R3, Hold R1' over and over and over again.

 

[-Samurai-]

I've yet to notice any problems in level scaling. The levels of the Walkers are kinda unimportant when you're carrying around good weaponry. One of my bats kills them one hit anyway. They're easy enough not to worry about, but hordes of them are difficult enough to still be exciting.

My only gripe so far is the damn auto target. Aiming for the head is impossible when the game forces you to look at their arms, and then their feet if you swing down. The auto targeting defeats the purpose of the Analog control option.

 

[Something Amyss]

Soooooo , what you prefer that enemies always be weaker than you and the game becomes L4D on easy mode?

Did anyone say that at all?

You don't need to make enemies "always weaker" to do away with level scaling.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I don't actually read/watch reviews because they're mostly subjective. (I say mostly because something like Superman 64 is shit and everyone realizes that.)

And I bought it the day it came out, so I hadn't had a chance to hear anything about it either. I didn't even know about the whole Steam fiasco until I was on Chapter 3. Refer to my first response in this post, though. I've learned to completely ignore weapons and go beat hordes of zombies to death with my bare hands whilst taking zero damage. That goes far beyond Survival Horror/RPG and straight back into Dead Rising territory.

Pahaha...I like your moxie dude.
Yeah fair enough, sounds like you're speaking purely on your own opinions of the game.
UUGH not run-out-of-weapons-and-just-punch-them-to-death syndrome. I hated having to deal with that in Dead Rising. I would say maybe that's a sign that the game should be played less focused on killing and more on just staying alive but, it really isn't that kind of game is it.

 

[B4DD]

I say that right there is the technicality. I don't think you really lose the individuality, especially when they do it well. I find myself ignoring levels though most of the time. It doesn't matter that my Shepard is level twenty. What matters is I've just finished upping X skill. So yeah, you can say that everyone just calls levels different names, but I honestly think they're a technicality, some kind of formality really.

You've just finished upping the level of your skill

Zounds, it's worse than I thought! That's kind of my point. It's become such a permeating word in gamerdom that it's kind of lost all its original meaning, or at least transcended it.

It's just very easy of me not to think in terms of levels these days, and I grew up with Final Fantasy and Pokemon. Games where level was literally around every corner.

You make it sound teribble but it's as if you've taken up opposition against the word inventory, it's an intrinsic part of the system. You can attempt to remove it, and heck your more than likely going to succeed, God only knows why you want to. (sorry, but ima use another analogy) it's like if you were a car manufacturer and you wanted to do away with the assembly line because it's being used as a crutch.