since when is christmass a religions event?

[SextusMaximus]

1) It was originally a pagan event, Christianity took the idea, yes.
2) It doesn't matter... at all, you seem to be trolling.

 

[Raven_Operative]

Besides, there is actually a passage in the bible that explicitly forbids dressing up trees in celebration.

Never encountered that one... Educate me.

OT: The way I heard it, it was originally a pagan holiday, but the Christians moved Christmas to the 25th either to compete with it, or so that Christians would have the opportunity to celebrate without going against their beliefs.

 

[Haukur Isleifsson]

This really makes me thankful for the fact we celebrate Yule where I live. No one, no matter how religious, celebrates Christmas in Iceland. But even then little children are being taught that we are celebrating the birth of "Jesus" and I am often asked when I claim to be a non-believer whether I celebrate Yule. Cultural Imperialism if you ask me.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

now I dont actually know if chrstmases origins were christian Im a VERY sure it actually wansnt, I know baby jesus didnt have his birthday on the 25th of decenmber..and I think christians "stole" the date to compete with another festival

Someone may have already mentioned this, but you are correct. December 25th was the birthday of the Roman Pagan Sun God, Mythra (spelling?). It was later "adopted" by Christians as a celebration for the birth of Jesus to go along with Pagan traditions.

Since then, Christmas has become so commercialized it lost all meaning. I just find it hilarious when the hypocritical Christians shun non-Christians, or even better, Pagans, for celebrating the holiday.

 

[Wintermoot]

it used to be religious it used to be a heathen holiday it got stolen by the Christians.

 

[Furioso]

whats rightfully theirs? as everyone has pointed out to me you could argue that it was never "rightfully theirs" in the first place

If you're saying the Celebration of Jesus Christ isn't a Christian thing then I really don't even know what I can say to you other than read a book.

Companies bastardized Christmas, just like they did to Halloweeen. Halloween is a pagan festival given some kind of commercial meaning to sell candy and other junk.
Christians have every right to say what they're saying, that you should not celebrate Christmas if you're not Christian. As I said prior, do you celebrate Divhali? Do you have Bar/Bat Mitzvah when you hit 13?
No.
Why is this?
Because you don't belong to that specific secular group, that's why.

Unfortunately capitalism took the holidays and did what it did to them, just to start shifting a few extra products.
In fact as far as I'm aware it was Coca-Cola who tied Santa Claus to Christmas.

as far as I can gather christians "took over" what christmas (or its equivalnt) waaaay back in the day, just as comercialism/santa has taken over it now

but in the end it doesnt matter....christians are going to celebrate christmas their way...secular people celebrate it their way as well

but you cant still "claim" a holiday if pretty much ALL the western world celebrates it (unless they have another specific religion)....thats somthing you cant stop/undo

and its not like secular people go to the chrstmas mass or anything, like I said they see the family, exchange presants and get pissed

...No you actually can, just because tons of non Christians celebrate it now doesn't mean they did early in the holidays history, people could have just as easily followed Hanukkah for their 8 days of gifts and it still would have been a Jewish holiday, just because non religious people choose to follow the arguably second most important Christian holiday doesn't take away what religion it belongs to

 

[Bluntman1138]

Christians stole the Summer Soltice harvests from Pagans. This was to make it easier to convert the Pagans, because killing them by the sword wasnt working to well.

Then corporations decided to take it over in the 20th Century.

Fun Fact, Easter was also stolen by Christians from the Pagans.

 

[Guffe]

Well it is religious yes, from the start christian religious = no...
Read the 4 pages before this post and you'll get all the different varieties you can get as an explanation about this.
Time changes everything but it's origin is religious in one way or another.

 

[Denamic]

Besides, there is actually a passage in the bible that explicitly forbids dressing up trees in celebration.

Never encountered that one... Educate me.

OT: The way I heard it, it was originally a pagan holiday, but the Christians moved Christmas to the 25th either to compete with it, or so that Christians would have the opportunity to celebrate without going against their beliefs.

It's under Jeremiah 10

Spoiler: The False Gods and the True God

1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
etc.
http://www.bartleby.com/108/24/10.html

 

[Lyri]

as far as I can gather christians "took over" what christmas (or its equivalnt) waaaay back in the day, just as comercialism/santa has taken over it now

but in the end it doesnt matter....christians are going to celebrate christmas their way...secular people celebrate it their way as well

but you cant still "claim" a holiday if pretty much ALL the western world celebrates it (unless they have another specific religion)....thats somthing you cant stop/undo

and its not like secular people go to the chrstmas mass or anything, like I said they see the family, exchange presants and get pissed

Christians did not take over Christmas, give me sources on this. If I'm coming across as grouchy it's because I have a pain in the ass headache lol.
But no, the Christmas that is mostly celebrated now is a corporate thing and probably what was stolen from Pagan celebrations if we're talking about that.

Also yes Secular people do go to Christmas Mass, Catholics in particular are most nobtable for doing so. That's a pretty sweeping statement that you just brushed over every religious group right there.
As for the claiming, sure you can as to not allow it is completely double standard.

Look at the previous examples, if we turned Diwali into a night where corporations wanted to sell fireworks or hell even light fixtures. Do you think Hindu's would suddenly accept this loss of value?
Why should any other religious group accept it or is this just bashing on Christians for having the balls to say so?

Everyone will celebrate the holiday all the same, but they have every right to make their claim to it.

What I'm getting from this is "it's alright for Christians to complain that someone has co-opted their holiday to make it about something else, but if you say the holiday they co-opted from others is not theirs, READ A BOOK!"

Come now, it reads as a double standard.

What you're getting from it is what you're inferring.

I never made any claim it was ok for any group to steal others holidays.

However what you're getting at is how historians think Christmas was originally observed on the Solistice and is infact calling the Sun the lord, right?
That's fine and dandy but the gift giving was in the bible, Baby JC was given three gifts by the wise men who visted him at birth. The "Pagan elements" of the festival was just converting peoples beliefs that it wasn't the sun and was in fact JC/God.
When Christians "stole" Christmas they were just snubbing out Paganism itself but that was probably around the time Christianity was arriving in the West.

I'd have to take issue here, as at least in the UK, it's seen that non christians are out to destroy and bury the whole idea of xmas. Yet wherever you are , it seems that they're trying to do their own thing during Christmas and generally let Christians do what they want? If it's just that they're using the word Christmas, words change their meaning over time, and Christmas really does mean 'that time of year around the second half of december, generally considered a holiday period.'

I agree that it's pretty crappy that it's so much about the money now, but I don't think there's any harm in letting other people celebrate Christmas, I think if non Christians had to have a seperate 'Winterval' at the same time, Christmas would be a far smaller event. I'd suggest, that if anything, sharing the word may mean that young people want to find out about the Christian side of it.

I'm in the UK, you can just click my profile.
I was with you right up until you said "words change their meaning", utter none sense. Christmas doesn't mean "that time of year around the second half of December" and frankly it's a poor argument to even bring up.
Christmas hasn't changed at all, it's still the same spiritual holiday it was for Christians but the none religious folks are just latching onto the commercialism pushed out by companies and now it's accepted that on the 25th of December, Presents!

I'm just here because the OP said Christmas wasn't a Christian holiday and I thought the notion hilarious.
Also side point; I'm atheist, I just prefer to tolerate everyones right to their own beliefs. Personally I think it's wrong that Christmas was ever associated with corporate greed like this.
Yes, I do give gifts out to people and I do recieve them myself, I don't observe any religious aspect of the Holiday. Good cheer is all well and good and it's an idea I can totally get behind, but I am very aware that there is a religious group who have been bastardized for it.

 

[Sandernista]

In the US Christmas is anything but a christian event. It has its roots in christian mythology but the holiday does not resemble any real christian tradition. (Think it was some sort of pagan holiday or something?)

In fact Whit Christmas, one of our favorite songs to play in the department stores, was written by a jew.

In the US Christmas is practically secular, its really a consumer holiday. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

as far as Im concerned christmas thease days generally has nothing to do with religion..no really, my family is not religous....most of Australia is not religous and we (and I imagine alot of Australia) celebrate christmas.....(aside from going to mass of coase)

you know what christmas is? its a comercial holiday, its the itme of year when kids get presesnts, and its the itme of yeah adults stress out, put up with family or eat/drink themelfs into oblvion (or all three)

last time I checked jesus hardly had anything to do with it aside from the nativity plays we somtimes has...thats it, mostly it was about santa

Yea it's essentially the same here in the states.

 

[Agow95]

It still wouldn't exist if we didn't have Jesus, and it is called CHRIST-mas, normally celebrated by CHRIST-ians, worshippers of Jesus CHRIST, but apart from that, I agree with what your saying, that it has evolved past the point of being about Jesus, It has that significance if you are Christian, but nearly everyone else can still celebrate it without feeling like it's a religious thing

 

[Something Amyss]

I never made any claim it was ok for any group to steal others holidays.

But you said it was right for Christians to be offended that their holiday was co-opted, though they co-opted it themselves. How are you not applying a different standard to them?

 

[renegade7]

Christmas as we know it today has basically been really commercialized, mostly by Macy's. But the traditions of gift giving and putting up a tree and such were originally Pagan traditions that the Romans stole to make Christianity more appealing (same with Easter and Halloween). Christmas wasn't celebrated until well after Jesus died and the Romans began following Christianity, by the way.

 

[Dwarfman]

alright this is somthing that bugs me,

aparently...if your not christian...you dont celebrate christmas? is this an american beliife or somthing?

anyway let me exaplain

now I dont actually know if chrstmases origins were christian Im a VERY sure it actually wansnt, I know baby jesus didnt have his birthday on the 25th of decenmber..and I think christians "stole" the date to compete with another festival

but that aside....

as far as Im concerned christmas thease days generally has nothing to do with religion..no really, my family is not religous....most of Australia is not religous and we (and I imagine alot of Australia) celebrate christmas.....(aside from going to mass of coase)

you know what christmas is? its a comercial holiday, its the itme of year when kids get presesnts, and its the itme of yeah adults stress out, put up with family or eat/drink themelfs into oblvion (or all three)

last time I checked jesus hardly had anything to do with it aside from the nativity plays we somtimes has...thats it, mostly it was about santa

I am a Christian. I do not celebrate christmas. And I do not celebrate it for pretty much every reason you have stated.

Ofcourse trying to get other people to see my pint gets somewhat frustrating around this time of year, so it's nice to see someone who's kindof on the same page.

 

[Terminate421]

We christians are supposed to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. We do, but we also do the very fun commercialized giving gifts and such.

Recently it has become a holiday where people throw down their differences and celebrate with their fellow man, therefore making it the best Holiday in the year.

 

[rob_simple]

Does everything have to be an argument now?

If Christians telling you you shouldn't be celebrating Christmas bothers you then why not be the bigger man/woman and turn the other cheek?

I mean, unless they are forcibly preventing you from celebrating it by breaking into your house and taking the tree. Then I suppose I'd be pissed.

Otherwise, in the spirit of the season, I say we all just live and let live.

P.S. I loved your revelation about Christmas being overly commercial, OP. Does M. Nigh Shyamalan help write your posts?

 

[Vykrel]

Yes, Christmas is in fact a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Ever wondered why it's called "Christmas"?

Giving presents to each other is just something that has developed over time.

actually, it was originally a Pagan holiday until Christians adopted it (or stole it, depending on your point of view) for themselves, sort of like how the Greeks adopted (or stole) the Roman's gods and gave them new names.

also, Jesus was not born on Dec.25 (if he ever existed at all). there is no exact date that is tied to Jesus' birth.


either way, there is pretty much nothing Christian about Christmas. the whole point of the holiday is to bring people together, and to give and recieve gifts.

Christmas is no more Christian a holiday than Halloween.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Well, Christmas as a give a present to someone day is entirely comercial.

But christmas as a celebration of of Jesus as a figure of christianity has been going since the 4th century.
And yes, lately only the hardcore christians remember the meaning of christmas in a truly pure way.

This.
Basically the modern practices have their roots in the time when Christians decided to start usurping pagan holidays.
Now, if you're not a Christian, then that doesn't mean you can't give gifts or whatnot. Christmas has become less and less Christian as time goes on.

Not to say that it was ever an exclusive practice.

 

[Lyri]

But you said it was right for Christians to be offended that their holiday was co-opted, though they co-opted it themselves. How are you not applying a different standard to them?

In what way was it co-opted?
Gift giving has been associated with the birth of Christ since it's inception, even children know this thanks to nativity plays.

Christians did not adopt it or steal it, common misconception. The date was stolen, not the idea of giving gifts.
When Christianity was brought across to the west reformation was removing the other religions and converting or killing none believers, nothing was stolen just jumbled around.

Now it's been moved from the Solstice and is placed in December.