since when is christmass a religions event?
- Thread starter Vault101
- Start date
There are claims that Christmas stole the date of the Winter Solstice I think, a pagan festival, and given the Catholic Churchs' history, this is very possible.Vault101 said:
However, the traditions during Christmas can be traced to Jesus' birth. Gift giving originated from the three wise men giving gifts of gold, frankensence and myrrh. Originally, anyway. Seems now it's a marketing event.
Regardless of whether you remember the significance behind it, that is, a celebration that God entered this world a human, it is still nice to have a day dedicated to forgiveness and generosity.
Like most xtian holidays, christmas is smackdack right at the same spot as old pagan holiday of midwinter.
ChupathingyX said:
Now tell me where does he mention America? The only country he mentions here is Australia. This thread was not about Christmas in America and even if it was it wouldn't have a different origin than what we see in Europe unless you're going to tell me that Americans believe Jesus was born in Ohio.
There it isYopaz said:
However, I still don't understand why you're so angry at me.
The OP was curious if Christmas had something to do with religion, I explained what it had to do with religion and how the name also connects it to religion.
No, the OP knew a lot more about than you. He didn't wonder if Christmas was a Christian belief. He was wondering why Christians seems to believe that it is.ChupathingyX said:There it isYopaz said:
However, I still don't understand why you're so angry at me.
The OP was curious if Christmas had something to do with religion, I explained what it had to do with religion and how the name also connects it to religion.
There has been similar winter festivities, long before cristianity, where i live, most people celebrate Christmas, no matter what religion.
Christmas has religious roots though ironically very few of those roots are in Christianity. But just like Christianity took the "Meaning" of those pagan, Roman and other-winter-solstice celebrations for their own, secularism is now taking it from the Christians.
I, for one, couldn't be happier with such a transition.
I, for one, couldn't be happier with such a transition.
I apologise if this comes off as overly antagonistic, but there's a lot that needs to be said.Vault101 said:
Firstly, your spelling is quite bad. Sorry, but it is. Won't dwell on that though, as it's not really relevant.
Secondly, the holiday known as "Christmas" is a Christian one. The way you spelt it in the title makes this even more apparent - Christ Mass. However, the date is not. When Christians were thinking of a time they could celebrate their new religious holiday, they fell upon this time of year because it was the winter solstice.
The reason for this was not 'to compete' with any other festival. It was simply convenient - Christians needed a date, and it was already established that they had the day off from work.
Thirdly, while you're right to assume the holiday has been commercialised greatly over the years, it is still primarily a religious festival celebrating Jesus' birth. If that isn't what Christmas is for you, I suppose that's fine, but it -is- a religious occasion and one very significant for a lot of people.
Regardless of your own views, saying Jesus has nothing to do with it could come off as a little offensive/insensitive. I apologise if this wasn't what you were going for, I may be entirely mistaken. There's no tone of voice on forums, obviously.
However you are right to think that 25th December isn't -actually- Jesus' birthday. As far as we can tell, it's some time around June/July.
EDIT:
Also, everything this guy says.AVATAR_RAGE said:
1. "She", not "he".Yopaz said:
2. Because they celebrate it as the brith (not birthday) of Jesus (which I already said) and because the name also connects to Christianity. Therefore some more hardcore Christians would believe that Christmas belongs to them and they must fanatically defend it. Personally, I don't care (which I also already explained).
Stop putting words in my mouth, I don't like it...words don't taste nice.
If you read the Bible these is nothing about Christmas in it...nor anything about going to church and all that Sunday Marco.
Many religions have celebration at this time of year to make the bleakest time of year a bit more pleasant, and to end the year something nice and not horrid cold. This makes sense in countries that have horrid weather in December.
I suppose from that angle the countries that celebrated got used to celebrating in December and when people were moved to sunnier parts of the world it just stuck.
Cause now a days it is a big day for capitalism as we are told nay ordered to go out buy stuff your ourselves, others, and the house under the promise of acceptance and not being a total reject of society with obviously not fun in them at all. Just try and tell someone you are not doing something for Christmas. You have to force your point though of NO before they give up.
Many religions have celebration at this time of year to make the bleakest time of year a bit more pleasant, and to end the year something nice and not horrid cold. This makes sense in countries that have horrid weather in December.
I suppose from that angle the countries that celebrated got used to celebrating in December and when people were moved to sunnier parts of the world it just stuck.
Cause now a days it is a big day for capitalism as we are told nay ordered to go out buy stuff your ourselves, others, and the house under the promise of acceptance and not being a total reject of society with obviously not fun in them at all. Just try and tell someone you are not doing something for Christmas. You have to force your point though of NO before they give up.
I'm reminded of the scene in the Ernest Saves Christmas where he's driving Santa Claus from the airport but he clearly has a "Keep the Christ in Christmas" bumper sticker on his car.
Christmas is a Christian holiday. The word Christmas is comes from the combination of the words Christ (Messiah) and mass (as in feast). So yeah Christmas is a day to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ who Christians believe to be the Messiah.Vault101 said:
It was originally a feast day for early Neo-Jewish (early Christians) in which they gathered together and had a large feast to celebrate the birth the Messiah. The date however comes from the when Christianity was introduced into the Roman Empire as it's core religion. To avoid any upheaval the date of the Christmas festival was officially moved to coincide with an already existing, and quite popular pagan festival (the name escapes me). This festival also involved a lot of feasting, and surprisingly it worked. No one complained because everyone ended up feasting together.
Gift giving came at a later date, the idea of gifts at Christmas came from the idea that Jesus Christ was the greatest gift to humankind that God could give. And so people emulate this by giving gifts to those that they love. However this does lead to the commercialisation of Christmas which has occurred over the last century. Weirdly this headlined by the Coke Cola corporation.
I hope this clears things up for you. Oh and in future a little checking when it comes down to grammar and spelling goes a long way.
Uhm no. The exact date of Jesus' birth is not known. It is not mentioned in the Bible. Therefore a Roman Bishop in the 3rd century calculated that 25th of december was a probable date of his birth.ThreeWords said:
Every day in the Roman Empire was a local holiday SOMEWHERE, in SOME CULTURE. To state that therefore Christian holidays are Pagan in origin is faulty logic at best.
I'm sure a lot of people were born on the same day as I am. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM RELATED TO ME.
The Roman Saturnalia was celebrated on the 17th of December. You hear me? THE SEVENTEENTH. Not the 25th. First introduced in the 3rd century BC, to raise morale after a defeat against the Carthaginians, this holiday became so popular with the Roman people that later they turned it into a week of orgies and merrymaking, till the 23rd of December. THIS WAS AFTER THE HOLIDAY LOST ANY RELIGIOUS MEANING TO THE ROMANS.
That's right, Imperial Romans often saw older religious festivals basically the way most of us see them now. As fun days you don't have to go to work.
Guess we didn't invent that either.
I don't celebrate Christmas, I celebrate Yule.
That said...Christmas is mainly a commercial thing nowadays, be it stores trying to sell things or religious "leaders" hawking the "Take Christmas back!" faux persecution line to make money. It's long not been about Jesus or generosity.
That said...Christmas is mainly a commercial thing nowadays, be it stores trying to sell things or religious "leaders" hawking the "Take Christmas back!" faux persecution line to make money. It's long not been about Jesus or generosity.
Christmas is about seeing your family and getting presents, who gives a crap about Jesus? He's no-where near as important as my family or my stuff.
The name connects it to Christianity. That's seriously all you can come up with that makes this a Christian holiday? I already explained to you that the name is based on language not stone cold facts. If I celebrate Christmas and say I do it to celebrate the birth of Pablo Picasso does that make it so just because I can convince a few thousands to join me in it? I also find it funny that you, the person quoting me and removing all the text from it so you wont have to address it in full complains about me putting words into your mouth. So after obscuring what I say you accuse me of putting words into your mouth. How classy of you.ChupathingyX said:
Oh wow, I'm surprised anyone actually remembered that. In the Netherlands we don't use Santa on December 25th, but St. Nicholas on December 5th, and presents are given on that day, notZen Toombs said:
Christmas. Santa was created when the Americans needed a figure of good will and a reason to give presents. A Greek from Turkey just wasn't going to cut it for them, so they created a fat white guy who lives on the North Pole.