Skyrim: Cabbage Rocket

[LobsterFeng]

Didn't even know about the controversial RPG list but now I do. Is this all some elaborate conspiracy to rake in a ton of page views on the Escapist?

Goodhand?

Skyrim all the way to the top. Not some emo, closed JRPG.

Confirmed for never played Godhand.

 

[thiosk]

I agree with the guys on this one, it strikes me as extremely lazy to put skyrim at the top of these lists.

We all bought skyrim, we've all played it, most of us have >100 hours in it. We all know the ups and the downs of the flagship bethesda series. We'll all buy the next one, too.

A list that puts it on top is not giving me anything interesting to read about.

 

[Macragge scholar]

By providing an SDK, Bethesda is much more accomplished than other stupid companies that sells various dum clothing DLCs

 

[mmiki]

My experience with Skyrim was that it sacrifices almost all depth for width. If you only stay in each town for a short while and talk to npcs in that town once or twice you'll get a sense of this huge world with a lot of characters. If you stay anywhere longer than 10 minutes though, you'll notice just how quickly they all get repetitive. It's like a movie set, shiny and grand from the front, but as soon as you move to the side you can see it's actually cardboard.

Plus, the combat system is kinda bad and the skill system is even worse. You can rectify most of these with mods, but I found that I needed about 30 mods to make the game enjoyable. There's even a mod that introduces interesting npcs that you can have a conversation with. When you install that one, you start to realize just how bland vanilla npcs are.

So, no, I don't think vanilla Skyrim is very good, but if you have to congratulate Bethesda on something, it's giving unprecedented modding ability to the players. That alone is worth a spot in the top 10 lists.

It also strikes me that I spent over a 100 hours in a game that I don't think is very good. Good job, brain.

 

[XDSkyFreak]

Thank god for this. It amazes me just how far Skyrim gets praised for stuff that isn;t even in the game.

Let's get this out of the way: Skyrim is by no definition a bad game. It's good. Ok. Decent. Passes the time.
But from that to all the retarded wanking fanboys shouting BEST RPG EVAH ... seriously? THIS? This unfocused, underwritten, booring, uninteresting generic medieval fantasy with dragons is TEH BEST RPG EVAH? Let me explain RPG: Role Playing Game. In otherwords and rpg is a game where story, roles, characters, situations take precedence over everything else. You must imerse me in your world and make me want to play the role assigned to me by the story. What are you in skyrim? A nobody. A random nobody of no known race gender or features that just happens to get the power to nom on dragon souls. A bit bland, but hey, if tyhe journey is good and the people I met are fun ... oh ... yeah ... ummmm ... generic save the world from bug bad dragon, generic exposition spewing pieces of cardboard with names atached ... ouch. Skyrim has NOTHING beyond a crude skeleton of an RPG, opting instead to just dump a truckload of disjointed and random toys and pretend it's an actually interesting experience. When really it's just a collection of random boring toys pilled up in one spot. That and graphics that would almost be passable (seriously, all the people praising skyrim graphics at launch must have been blind ... the draw distance was shit and all textures were utter crap I would expect to see in Mount&Blade for christs sake. Oh sure the vistas were nice if you played in low res and squinted real hard at the screen). Skyrim is not an RPG, plain and simple. You want a good RPG? Planescape: Torment. That game after so many fucking years still holds permanent residence in my memory and I can recite it's story by heart, it's dialogue word for words and all I need is one visual or audio que and instantly I am back in the skin of the Nameless. That is a true RPG, one that grabs hold of you, erases your mind and makes you become your in game character through a well written, well paced story and mistery and interesting sights and places and characters and personality. If one was to use graphics from one or two years ago to recreate Planescape, all the skyrim fanboys would probably shit themselves at actually fucking unique and amazing sights, not generic nordic country farm land from skyrim. Bottom line: verry few games pretending to be RPG are actually even real RPG's, let alone good ones.

Planescape: Torment is my number 1 best RPG ever, but for more modern examples: Witcher, Mass Effect (you had a name and place in the world before the game began, you had a rudimentary identity that the game allowed you to build upon. As oposed to identity-less random amoeba from skyrim) even despite the shit ending, that new Deus Ex game, the original Deus Ex, The Gothic series (it takes cues from skyrim in it's inception: namely you are a convict, difference here beeing you have a face, a voice, a personality. And the story starts as just you trying to find your place in the new life, but through proper pacing, mistery and one of the most immersive integration of RPG skills into the game world I have ever seen in a game, it sucks you into a world that isn't as simple or as boring as it might seem. It trains you in a mundane atmosphere, so when the weird world shapping events pop up and you are swept in them, you actually feel excited. As oposed to: "you are the mighty dragonborn, powerfull beyond scope, our only hope against dragons. Now go do a bajilion fetch quests and run around boring farmland for 100+ hours. Oh and don't bother with dragons that much, aparently if they attack a town, pesants with farming tools and fists can kill them just fine. So really, I don't even know why you are even needed here. EPIC ADVENTURE!").

Oh and another thing: FUCK MODS. FUCK THEM. DO NOT TELL ME "MODS FIX IT". NO! IF THE GAME IS SHIT AND FAILS AT THE MOST BASIC THINGS IT SHOULD DO, THEN THE GAME HAS FAILED AND NO AMOUNT OF MODS WILL FIX THAT. Will I enjoy a mod more than the origina? Of course. Will I go praise skyrimn because mods make it better. FUCK NO! SHIT ON SKYRIM ALL DAY FOR BEEING BLAND OVERHYPED BULLSHIT! PRAISE THE ACTUAL MODDERS WHO WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY AND FIXED WHAT THE DEVS WERE TOO LAZY TO FIX OR DO RIGHT FOR NO ACTUAL MONEY. Skyrim is a decent game, but it's overhyped and overpraised beyond belief by idiots who just can't comprehend that no amount of mods will fix skyrim beeing just an average game and who are praising bethesda for the work of other people. IF bethesda was to deserve all the praise skyrim got, then at least 70% of the profits skyrim made should go to the modding comunity of that game. And that would also make the game fair game for any best of lists (which are about the merits of the game, NOT what the modders fix about it. IF it's fixed by a mod, good job game devs: you are so incompetent and/or lazy you put out an incomplete broken game for other people to fix).

Actually does anyone think bethesda are turning into lazy fucks? I mean ... right now TES 6 and Fallout 4 can be the shities buggiest games in the world, dipshits will still praise them because bethesda basically gave the comunity an incomplete broken game and said "fix this for us, here are the tools". In my days, when a dev put out a shitty game that the comunity had to fix we would humiliate that dev all day and not buy any further game untill proof we no longed had to do their work for them.

 

[K-lusive]

I think Skyrim by itself is a playable, decent enough game. Some people, who are into these kinds of things, I'd recommend it right away. Other's I'd recommend getting at least SkyUI and the unofficial patch.

Bethesda's games may be buggy and shallow, but the immense scope of the game, combined with the excellent modding support, is what sells it to me, because even if Bethesda buggers off to try their hand at generic fantasy-mmo number 733, the community will find and fix bugs, improve the mechanics, add depth to the game, you name it.A buggy game at launch can mature well that way.

So the way I see it, Bethesda made a great RPG-template, which deserves my praise.

EDIT: Ofcourse, I dont praise bethesda for any mod that exists. If a prize were to be given to Skyrim, the modders would deserve at least 70% of it.

 

[Thedutchjelle]

I kinda like Skyrim.

Yeah, it has its flaws sure. But it allows me to just wander around a bit, have some RPG fun every now and then without being super complicated. It does have a fairly well-done athmosphere and background music.
Now I started a new playthrough with a ton of mods and I'm already enjoying it a lot more. Skyrim Redone really changes the game to a whole new level. Also got a mod that makes your character suffer from cold, so you need to play smart if you don't want to freeze to dead anywhere north of Whiterun.

 

[RyQ_TMC]

I've never even heard of Godhand, so I'm just going to attribute that to neurotic erin being neurotic.

Godhand was a PS2 fighting game with a small but devoted fanbase. It never showed up on any big-time lists, nobody mentioned it on the forums and it was generally forgotten aside from that small fanbase.

Then Yahtzee praised it in an Extra Punctuation[footnote]It might have been praised by some other contributors as well[/footnote] and suddenly it's the Greatest Game Ever, according to about half of the Escapist forumites. We've gone through that with Psychonauts, which everyone praised to high heavens after the Zero Punctuation of it, but was immediately forgotten once the forums were reminded of Deus Ex. Godhand is enjoying its ride on the rear seats of the bus for now.

Now, I'm not saying it's not Grey's favourite, or that everyone who praises it is doing so for cool kid points. As I said, Godhand does have a devoted fanbase. But it's a tad suspicious that apparently millions of people who loved the game were in a coma for the past several years and only woke up after an internet personality said "hey, remember that game?"

And don't forget annoying hand-holding.

I stopped playing Okami early in the game after the game told me I needed to draw a moon, so I opened the drawing thingy and started drawing circles. Nothing happened. Twenty minutes of frustration later, I talked to a random fucking NPC who TOLD ME HOW TO DRAW CIRCLES - at which point the game allowed me to draw a circle and summon the moon (or maybe the sun, I don't remember because I rage quit and gave the borrowed game back to its owner).

This might be a question of perspective. As my gaming method shrank from hardcore (Dragon Age: Origins finished in its entirety over a single play session punctuated by power naps and pizza) to casual (an hour or two of Screed or Rocksmith in a week if I find the time), I've noticed that the style of the game became more of a distinguishing factor than gameplay for me. Two games I really, really liked were The World Ends with You and Okami. They both featured horrible, irritating hand-holding. But what I found appealing about them were the settings and unique style. They were good for a spot of escapism, and mediocre gameplay doesn't matter if you play in short bursts between daily job, family life and extra work.

On the other hand, Thomas Was Alone bored me to tears, so maybe it's not all about uniqueness.

OT: Skyrim was fun. I probably wouldn't put it on any "top 10" list, but I live in a strange world where there are thousands of options between "best thing eva!!" and "turdburger". I got a lot of hours out of it, though the knowledge that my PS3 WILL shit itself if I keep playing beyond 50 hours or so keeps me from coming back.

 

[Stabby Joe]

I really like Skyrim... many other people really like Skyrim, both audiences and critics alike.

So why are some people here saying they like it as if they're "coming out" or something?

 

[Halla Burrica]

I haven't played Skyrim. I haven't even heard much about Skyrim since it was released in 2011 after months of hype and excitement from practically everyone in existence and was met with monumental praise pretty much everywhere. Now it's being frowned upon and dismissed as a "walking simulator, that isn't really an RPG (a statement that makes no sense, but whatever)", even by people who praised it to begin with (the author himself of this webcomic said he loved it inn 2011).

Speaking as an outsider who hasn't even touched the game, I don't know what to make of this. What happened? Did the expectations become so unrealistically high that nothing could humanly possibly match it? Was it because of how games evolved the next two years that it's viewed like it is today? Was it that the game was already good, but then hundreds of mods came along and significantly improved the experience, to the point that the game felt lacking without them?

I dunno, I'll go for a walk or something, maybe watch Antichrist a second time.

 

[Hugga_Bear]

So while I'm not comfortable putting Skyrim on top of my "RPG list of the year woo" I have to admit that the bashing it's receiving in this thread is more than a little unwarranted. The game is huge and while I understand the complaint that it's shallow it still kept me entertained for a HUGE amount of time. The weaponry was interesting, the fights often a bit shallow and underwhelming but not bad by any means...

I dunno, I just find the hatred for the game here absolutely unreasonable, that game was big and interesting enough and certainly better than the vast majority of RPG's out there, comparing the style to FFXIII is unfair but comparing the hours of fun isn't.

Plus the mods are part and parcel of Bethesda, while I agree that giving BethSoft credit for the work of modders is unreasonable it is worth noting that they don't just allow it, they condone it which is leagues better than the treatment many other devs give their games and fanbases.
The mods are good too, while there are seemingly infinite mods which I would never want touching my computer there are also a lot of in depth rehauls, texture upgrades for better systems, more magic more perks more this that or the other and they contribute to a more varied and interesting game, ignoring them is unfair when the behaviour should certainly be encouraged, I want more devs doing it not less.

 

[Twinmill5000]

Moot point!

We all know that obviously the second gen RX7 is the best car ever.

...Because you can paint it blue.

 

[SKBPinkie]

I'm here laughing at the people who actually use the word "hate" to describe their opinion of an entertainment product.

Dislike is fine, but "hate"? Did Skyrim somehow personally offend you? If it did, you absolutely deserve to have your mood ruined, cause that's what it sounds like - a childish tantrum.

Spoiler: This image is what comes to mind.

 

[Sanderpower]

I haven't played Skyrim. I haven't even heard much about Skyrim since it was released in 2011 after months of hype and excitement from practically everyone in existence and was met with monumental praise pretty much everywhere. Now it's being frowned upon and dismissed as a "walking simulator, that isn't really an RPG (a statement that makes no sense, but whatever)", even by people who praised it to begin with (the author himself of this webcomic said he loved it inn 2011).

Speaking as an outsider who hasn't even touched the game, I don't know what to make of this. What happened? Did the expectations become so unrealistically high that nothing could humanly possibly match it? Was it because of how games evolved the next two years that it's viewed like it is today? Was it that the game was already good, but then hundreds of mods came along and significantly improved the experience, to the point that the game felt lacking without them?

I dunno, I'll go for a walk or something, maybe watch Antichrist a second time.

You're sort of right on both accounts. So many great mods sprung out that people sort of got used to them and kept saying to themselves "why couldn't this be in the vanilla game!?". There is also the fact that Skyrim got so much hype from it's fans that people who played the game and didn't like it, felt like they got ripped off. Therefore they feel it's their duty to bash the game hard and "accentuate the negative". If they had not heard so much hype about the game, their opinions on Skyrim would be much more milder.

Skyrim is a really good game, I highly recommend you play it. I've invested about 3050+ hours already on my PC. Download a few mods from the Nexus and have a blast.

Also if Skyrim wasn't such a great game, why is it people are STILL talking about it 3 years after it's been released? That's a pretty long life-cycle for a AAA game.

 

[Arslan Aladeen]

Really funny to see people who have obviously no idea what God Hand is, let alone played it, calling it a JRPG. Yeah, never really cared for Skyrim. I find all aspects of the main game sub-par, so mods never really interested me. Their fun to watch youtube videos of, but that's about it.

 

[Doom972]

I didn't say that Bethesda should get praised for the mods themselves, but for making the game as moddable as it is.

Okay, I got that one wrong.

I don't know what your experience with modding is (I'm not going to make assumptions though), but it takes great effort on the developer's part to make a game moddable, and even more effort to bring it to Bethesda's standard. Not everyone will care about that, but for many people it means a lot. Just ask around the Neverwinter Nights forums.

Dude, if I had to delete half my online accounts, moddb would be one of the first on my "definitively gonna keep them"-list.
I've spent hundreds of hours in the Source SDK myself, soon even more with Unity, I study computer science and if I wasn't so lazy, I would have done something myself already. xD

This [http://static.bootic.com/_pictures/1562281/the-orange-box.jpg] was my best gaming related purchase EVER!

I share that sentiment

It's 5 highly polished, f'king amazing games that wouldn't even need modding support. Yet, have it and some of the most amazing mods ever were made for them.

The mods aren't specifically for these games, since Valve just made the Source SDK available for everyone. I'm pretty sure that you don't need to own a Source Engine game to play Source Engine mods anymore (which are more like games in their own right). Some games don't have mod-support and are successful for other reasons (great story, great gameplay, etc.), and that's fine because this way we have different games that offer different features for different types of gamers.

 

[happyninja42]

Well I'd say "literally a monster" is a bit under-doing it in terms of internet hyperboles, they're more somewhere in-between (literally) Hitler and Anita Sarkeesian.

But yes you're absolutely right on both counts.

And if we thought that Skyrim was a great game as the Vanilla version that was released without mods? What type of monster are we then? Because I played and finished it without any mods and loved it.

 

[Kerethos]

Having played hundreds of hours of vanilla Skyrim on Xbox 360, then hundreds of hours of a heavily modded Skyrim on PC, I definitely enjoy it more than any other RPG that I've ever played.

What Skyrim offers is some fairly unique and fun open world exploration, in a world that (in general) is very well crafted.

And if that's all you're after: killing some bandits, fighting the occasional dragon, exploring some tombs for loot in a beautiful landscape - with no pressing narrative pushing you on. Then Skyrim is pure, enjoyable relaxation.

I mean, the only debatable thing that's come out of Skyrim is Stormcloaks or Imperials (and that's a questline you can finish in about an hour, maybe less).

So if you're looking for deep story, interesting characters or a great combat system there are other games that do each part that makes up Skyrim better - but there's no game that does all of them, in one game, as well.

It is the sum of its parts that makes Skyrim great, which includes mods. Not each individual part by themselves.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

Rawr. I'm a monster.
Bethesda provides pretty good modding support for their games.

 

[Toadfish1]

WHaexactly is WRONG with the Honda Civic? Its great!