Skyrim Child Killing Mod

[LordRoyal]

I recall a news story a while back about this man who murdered someone, and they blamed Manhunt since it came out recently. When they searched his house they actually found out the man didn't play video games and never even heard of Manhunt. But surprisingly the victim owned a copy of the game.

So what your saying is if I run around killing children in a video game some nutjob is going to break into my house and axe me?

I'm not stating that video games = murder. I just found it a funny ironic coincidence

 

[electric_warrior]

All the kids in the game are wankers, I'd gladly kill ever last one of them. Seriously, why are they all such snotty little shites?

 

[Krzowirarzosarossax]

I have to say one thing to all the child fetishist in this thread. You, people make me sick.

Right to live isn't something that is reserved to children and adolescents. All innocents have a right to live. If you think that killing kids is worse than killing adults, think about your parents, your adult relatives. What would you feel if someone would murder them?

Would you think that it's ok if someone would murder your mother and put her head on on cupboard, like in that example of dark humour that Todd Howard presented? Killing an old lady and putting her head on a cupboard. That's the example he used. But he was the same person who said "do you really want to kill kids in game?".

I haven't seen any of you saying that innocent adults - parents, workers, brothers, sisters, husbands, wifes, (and yes, they are also someone's children) etc. in Skyrim deserve to be protected from murder or accidental death.
What kind of sick people you are? Your parents have fed you and clothed you and put up with your crap, but you don't have anything against them being murdered. A bunch of disgusting ingrates and sociopaths.

That's what happens when game try to introduce "morality" based censorship. People stop thinking about ethics and start to think that the game says what is good and wrong. You have really twisted morality.
I don't know how old are you. I assume that you're kids - you have to quit gaming before it's too late. Start reading books. Good books, not the fantasy trash. And stop watching James Bond movies - they are trash and make killing people look like fun. In James Bond novels which were written by a real spy, James Bond doesn't feel good with killing people. Even with killing bandits and murderers.
I talked to soldiers and even for them shooting at enemies that shoot at them is difficult.

If you kill an adult in real life, you're a murderer and you're going to prison for a long time. You usually can't even kill evil adults, because it would be considered murder too. Killing is acceptable only during war and in self-defence and it's psychologically damaging even then.

Even Fallout 1 with its childkiller reputation penalty was morally sick. It's a game where you can murder sympathetic characters like Katrina and Tandi and Seth and Razlo and still not be pursued for murder and still be a "champion of humanity". It's like they are trying to teach kids that violence against innocent adults is acceptable.

Then they grow up and become policemen (like in individuals who do such things, I'm not suggesting that most of policemen behave like that or that police encourages such things) who beat up peaceful protesters just for fun or kick a pregnant woman until she miscarries just for the hell of it.

You need to stop playing games like Skyrim, kids, before it's too late. I've seen threats of violence in this thread - threads directed to people who haven't done anything to anyone. Such thing is be unacceptable. You really need to stop playing such violent games and experience life outside your computer room.

 

[A-D.]

*snip*

Oh and before the flaming commences again. Killing a Child is horrible? So is Murder. So is Genocide. Yet we practice that, in one form or another, in quite a few Games, or at least the Option is there. Dont see moral Crusaders jumping on Modern Warfare cause we can shoot other Soldiers in the Face. Or how about that last town you walked into and killed everyone in the last Game you played? Wasnt evil obviously, you didnt kill any kids, so it cant be "evil".

Double Standards are fun, arent they? Hypocrites. Either no killing at all, or give the Option to kill everything. Or at least dont irritate the Player to a Point that they will actually want to do so.

*sigh* I really wanted to leave this alone.

You are missing the lynchpin here and that is context A child gets hit and killed by a car while running across the road; that's a tragedy. It is discovered that the same child was running away from the playground where he stabbed and killed another kid for his lunch money; that muddies the waters big time. Context is everything.

If you think that two opposing, heavily armed, well trained groups of soldiers killing each other in the theatre of war is the same as a bratty child being decapitated by a heavily armoured brute because they said something like "I'm not scared of you" then you've got bigger issues than a mod that allows you to do so.

Actually, Context may be a good Idea if we consider a relation towards reality. But lets face it, it is Pixels, i will never equate anything that is Virtual to be in the same standing as a similar Occurance in Reality. A Child being killed in real life as it were is for me personally a whole different Issue than a bunch of Pixels in a Game. What makes one bunch of Pixels more important, or rather, emotionally attached to you than another? Why can i kill a Wolf, a Dog, a Kitten, a Adult, a Dragon or what have you, but not a Child? Even though all of those are essentially made of Pixels and only contain a artificial Personality based on 1 and 0?

And even worse, why would you, if you wish to create a emotional Attachment to them, make the Children, who should by their very Design encourage you to want to protect them, i.e. have a similar Reaction to them coming to harm as it would be in real life, make them so utterly offensive towards you? Why should i care about a virtual Child, one which is entirely not real, when all it does is talk down to me when im clearly capable of slaughtering the whole Village, a bunch of Trolls, Bears and whatever? The Children arent made to be actually like Children. Every NPC in those Games acts according to a set logic, evil, good, strong, weak and so forth, yet ONLY the Children act in a entirely different set of Logic altogether, one that is NOT consistent with the Idea of Action vs Reaction, potential causality and similar. Basicly the virtual Kids are designed in such a Way that they can and will talk smack to you because they were made immortal and as such are entirely immersion breaking on that fact alone.

There is a difference to wanting to kill them, them being unable to die to anything, or being made in such a way that they simply do not even fit within the Game as it is. Therefore, i can entirely understand the reasoning for a Mod like that to exist. Hell what even is the Issue, even if Children are killable, lets assume Bethesda made them so in the first Place, the Choice whether to do so or not is entirely up to you, however and i stress this, this has no bearing, moral or otherwise, on the Player doing so. At least i believe that Adults, and by relation most Children are totally capable of seperating Fiction from Reality. If they can not, then the Problem is not the Game, but something else entirely and they should recieve help.

Also, cutting out part of my Post which inherently removes your Argument aint really helpful there, as it explained it already before you posted your Response to it, just saying.

 

[MammothBlade]

If amoral psychopaths want to go to ensure their passage to an even deeper level of Hell, I say let them. Better that you act out your child-murdering fantasies on virtual children than on the real deal.

/dealwithit

I can see why Bethesda didn't want to allow child-killing in their games. People have no right to complain when this can easily be "fixed" with a mod anyway. It's a change from the adults-only world of Oblivion, surely, in which there were no children at all.

Cue some ***king paedophile saying that they want a child nudity mod or something. -shudder-

 

[Mad World]

I see your point, but if they don't have children running around, everyone just complains about how unrealistic it looks. Oh well. I'm playing Skyrim on the PS3 right now while I wait to upgrade the pc. I have no problem with the mod or with my current lack of access to it. It's just not one of my gripes about the game.

Morrowind and Oblivion didn't have children, and I don't think many complained about that (I could be wrong about that, though).

Anyway, I'm glad that you're enjoying it and that you don't take issue with the fact that children can't be killed. Some people care; some less (or not at all). I'm sure that you'll have even a better time on the PC version because of adjustable graphics settings and - of course - mods.

I'd get it for PC, but my PC is kind of outdated. It can play the game very reasonably on high settings, but for me, I don't like not being able to play a game on maximum settings with very high FPS.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

I never understood why this was ever a big deal. To me, I find it ridiculous that kids are invincible from the get go where you can murder hundreds. If you don't want u killing kids in game, make some consequences for killing them in game.

 

[kenu12345]

this thread is still alive and i c people are still calling people pure EVAL!!! for wanting this let it die

 

[Jeffro Tull]

I may look into this mod once I purchase Skyrim. Not because I want to murder children, but because I feel that it would add immersion to the game to want to make sure that they are not harmed in the event that they are an innocent bystander during an attack. That was a problem with Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I often wondered why Bethesda even put them in the game if they were indestructible. It seems to me that the drama of the situation would be pressed even further if the children of the world were susceptible to accidental killing/attack by an enemy. Of course, given the responses on this forum to the mod, I can see why Bethesda consistently chooses not to include this feature.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Don't people realize that if the game allowed the player to kill kids, it would pretty much automatically mean an AO rating? And that means most retail stores - and possibly Steam, not sure - would not support it. Bethesda's hands are tied. (BTW I know Fallout 1 and 2 allowed you to kill kids and got away with an M rating, but the ESRB was a lot more lax back then)

But GOD are those little fucks annoying. Especially that girl in Whiterun. You know which one.

Bioshock and the sims allow you to kill kids and they didn't get an AO. WOW lets you kill kids (or so I hear, I never played the game)

 

[mb16]

i killed 50 people in skyrim this morning all aged over 18- "ah cool what weapon?"

i killed someone a day before their 18th birthday in skyrim this morning- "AH YOU CHILD KILLING MONSTER! you are mentally ill"

 

[Harla]

<- Will be seeking mods like this as soon as she installs Skyrim, for the sake of immersion and consistency.

I see no problem with this, and do not consider myself in any way a bad or deviant person for it (I'm deviant in plenty of other ways, none of which a decently open-minded person would consider reprehensible).

I find any person who would brand me so to be without any depth of consideration and closed-minded to the point of unhealthiness.

That is all,

-Harla

 

[AngloDoom]

If amoral psychopaths want to go to ensure their passage to an even deeper level of Hell, I say let them. Better that you act out your child-murdering fantasies on virtual children than on the real deal.

This is what I don't get.

I'm going to ask this in the most polite, civil way I can because this thread is already pretty furious at itself:

Why is it that killing adults in this game isn't me re-enacting a fantasy but killing children is? Surely both are are fantasy you're experiencing (which I personally see nothing wrong with but each to their own), or neither of them are a fantasy.

I hope you don't mind me asking you to explain this to me, because I simply do not understand the difference.

 

[MammothBlade]

If amoral psychopaths want to go to ensure their passage to an even deeper level of Hell, I say let them. Better that you act out your child-murdering fantasies on virtual children than on the real deal.

This is what I don't get.

I'm going to ask this in the most polite, civil way I can because this thread is already pretty furious at itself:

Why is it that killing adults in this game isn't me re-enacting a fantasy but killing children is? Surely both are are fantasy you're experiencing (which I personally see nothing wrong with but each to their own), or neither of them are a fantasy.

I hope you don't mind me asking you to explain this to me, because I simply do not understand the difference.

Good question. I guess because children are seen as with very few exceptions, defenceless innocents. There is a social sacrilege surrounding child-killing. It's the same for beating up other clearly vulnerable people, but people want to see children hurt least of all. I don't think everyone who goes on a murderous ingame child killing rampage is a potential child murderer, but I don't think their intentions are entirely reasonable either. Arguably rampaging on an adult killing spree is still fantasy fulfillment, but adult killing fantasies are more justifiable (due to the stresses of modern life) and much less likely to translate into serious fantasies, than child-killing fantasies are. You have to be particularly unhinged to fantasise about stabbing kiddies to death.

 

[snave]

Would the logical approach not have been to disallow direct player contact but retain monster and environment vs child NPC damage, thus making them essentially a perpetual escort mission-eque feature? I mean, that'd be an escort mission that I could a) care for and b) suspend my disbelief over when the AI glitches.

 

[kinapuffar]

I laugh at everyone in this thread. They're no real children, they're blobs of polygons in fictional world which, itself, is comprised of more blobs of polygons.

Stop antropomorphizing everything you pathetic idiots.

Not everything is human, nor deserves the same treatment as humans. You don't ***** about people smashing a piñata do you? Since it's shaped like a horse does that make it simulated animal abuse? Quick, someone calle PETA!


Seriously people, learn to tell the difference between reality and fiction.

 

[AngloDoom]

If amoral psychopaths want to go to ensure their passage to an even deeper level of Hell, I say let them. Better that you act out your child-murdering fantasies on virtual children than on the real deal.

This is what I don't get.

I'm going to ask this in the most polite, civil way I can because this thread is already pretty furious at itself:

Why is it that killing adults in this game isn't me re-enacting a fantasy but killing children is? Surely both are are fantasy you're experiencing (which I personally see nothing wrong with but each to their own), or neither of them are a fantasy.

I hope you don't mind me asking you to explain this to me, because I simply do not understand the difference.

Good question. I guess because children are seen as with very few exceptions, defenceless innocents. There is a social sacrilege surrounding child-killing. It's the same for beating up other clearly vulnerable people, but people want to see children hurt least of all. I don't think everyone who goes on a murderous ingame child killing rampage is a potential child murderer, but I don't think their intentions are entirely reasonable either. Arguably rampaging on an adult killing spree is still fantasy fulfillment, but adult killing fantasies are more justifiable (due to the stresses of modern life) and much less likely to translate into serious fantasies, than child-killing fantasies are. You have to be particularly unhinged to fantasise about stabbing kiddies to death.

I understand the underlying reflex of the outrage this mod has created, because almost anyone who kills a child or even a baby animal is often seen as more 'evil' than someone who kills a human adult. That said, I do find it difficult to see how one form of fantasy is any "less likely" to be re-enacted in real-life than any one.
For me, the main reason people download this mod (with adding to the terror of dragons and realism swept aside for now) is so they don't have to be brought out of their power-fantasy. Very few people seem to want to exclusively kill children, reading through this topic, but often kill people who irritate them or just people in general for funsies. I think the main reason people download this mod is so that children are not more powerful than them in some ways and so they can also be killed in the rampages people enact on villages: rather than a wish to slaughter children-only.

At least, that's my take on it. I know if I had the game and I wanted to use an area of effect spell to kill everyone out of rage at the game or just to strut my powers, seeing children walk away unharmed would take me out of the moment.

Thanks for keeping things civil, by the way. This thread is scary.

 

[The Pinray]

This thread is giving me diabetes.

I don't understand why some people think that everyone who wants this mod is a sociopath.

My immersion argument comes from the need of stakes during a dragon attack, or a bandit raid, or some other catastrophe. I have no desire to murder, adult or otherwise. I just shouldn't view immortal children as meat shields to draw off fire while I protect nameless guardsmen and old ladies. I should be protecting them, the children, just a vehemently.

When I play these games, I love to delve into the world and exist there for a few hours. There's no bills there, no job, no car payments, and my girlfriend isn't asking me to fix the fridge. Seeing a child set on fire and come out unscathed for the simple fact that he hasn't met the age requirement of death immediately pulls me back into reality. "You must be this tall to die."

Now, not to say reality is terrible. I love my life. I get to enjoy great luxuries like this game, and a laptop to argue with anonymous moral crusaders. But when I role play, I role play. I want to get the most out of the experience.

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate.

 

[dead.juice]

I like how most people's motivations on here for getting the mod is because they can't take the taunts of children.

 

[dead.juice]

To respond to several prevailing ideas at once:

Spoiler: Kids are annoying and cause trouble for the player character, therefore we should be able to kill them.

I'm not going to object to the first part of the argument, because it's true for a lot of people. A lot of kids taunt you and such, and were they to act in a similar way as adults, many players would probably decapitate them for their insolence on the spot. (I am a little alarmed at how willing people are to justify their lust for child murder in terms of how much they feel the children deserve to die, but that's just unsettling, not really an objection.) But why does no one talk about the sweet children? Like that little boy who gets picked on by Braid (Baird?) in Whiterun? Half of them talk about their dreams of inheriting the family business when they grow up, and how fun it is to work in the forge or whatever. They don't all kick your shins and run away.

It is certainly a problem that a child can serve as an immortal witness to your crimes, however. That's a good reason to want to kill kids and a good reason to allow it. Otherwise it creates a weird situation where the player character is a necromantic, daedric worshiping thief trying to assassinate a local shop owner, and he can't because the kid is nearby. There's no plausible character reason he wouldn't just kill them both so there are no witnesses, so the fact that the game won't allow it forces him to break character.

Spoiler: Killing children in game is disgusting and immoral.

This is the simplest objection to child killing to reject. This is a game that allows thievery, desecration of corpses, animal cruelty, and of course murder of almost any other variety. How the ability to kill children going to make this game offensive in a way that all this other stuff does not? I can literally grab a mace, walk down to the market, and decapitate an old lady right there. She was certainly as innocent and harmless and pointless to murder as any child, yet the ability to kill her does not weigh heavy on the conscience of the developers. It's strangely selective reasoning and I don't buy it.

Spoiler: Bethesda wants to avoid bad press by not allowing child killing.

The explanation for this is that Bethesda could be accused of creating a "child killing simulator." By the exact same logic, Bethesda can already be accused of creating an old lady killing simulator. Has it not been because people simply don't care about the elderly? Now, I know that people are capable of getting worked up over nonsense, but that's what we're for. We provide the good press and the responses to the bad press that allow thoughtful, reasonable games to be made. The capacity of pundits and talking heads to get angry about silly things they don't like didn't prevent them from including same sex marriage in game - why should this be any different?

Yay organization!

Spoiler

Yay!