Skyrim Metaphor?

[Emiscary]

I always figured if there were Nazis in Skyrim it was the Altmer.

They're more or less Nazi elves.

 

[Soopy]

I always figured if there were Nazis in Skyrim it was the Altmer.

They're more or less Nazi elves.

Nazi's weren't a specific race of people.

Altmer are just generally arrogant.

 

[Aprilgold]

No, its about as Nazi inspired as Pocahontas is inspired by the Deus Ex games. The comparison is either very small or is just not there.

The problem with the assumption that their making a social standpoint on what it is like to live under large pressure from a dictatorship and I don't want to sound bad, but Bethesda's writers aren't that good to even do this without forcing it in your face.

Its just a coincident, and nothing more.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

You're doomed now, man.
No one argues with Sajuuk about TES lore and lives.

Arguing about TES lore is pointless, up until Skyrim there was no real reason why Akatosh and Alduin couldn't be one and the same. But unless Paarthurnax was misinformed and Aldium was lying to you, it's been retconned to make them seperate entities. Until an event happens or is documented in game it might as well be myth and legend.

At the very least I'd concede to the idea that the Alduin you fight in Skyrim is a mantler of the true Akatosh/Alduin/Auri-El. Or just a very powerful dragon assuming the name to rally fear. Though now we're venturing into the terrifying waters of Shezzarine and Talos Oversoul arguments.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

It's applicable, but I don't think it's allegorical.

 

[Kotep]

Alduin is Akatosh but the relationship isn't wholly exclusive. Alkosh is also Akatosh, as is Tosh Raka. In fact, Akatosh is as much 'Akatosh' (referring to the divine basis of power) as is any of his other incarnations. Alessian religion is mot the correct belief system; in fact, one could argue that its constructed nature (made to create a metropolitan religion that the early Empire could agree on) makes it less 'real' than the other religions, each of which are their own interpretations.

So is Alduin Akatosh? Yes. And he's the son of Akatosh by Alduin by Akatosh by Alduin, forever.

Isn't TES lore fun?

 

[Soopy]

Alduin is Akatosh but the relationship isn't wholly exclusive. Alkosh is also Akatosh, as is Tosh Raka. In fact, Akatosh is as much 'Akatosh' (referring to the divine basis of power) as is any of his other incarnations. Alessian religion is mot the correct belief system; in fact, one could argue that its constructed nature (made to create a metropolitan religion that the early Empire could agree on) makes it less 'real' than the other religions, each of which are their own interpretations.

So is Alduin Akatosh? Yes. And he's the son of Akatosh by Alduin by Akatosh by Alduin, forever.

Isn't TES lore fun?

Could be, but in game it just makes NO sense anymore. Well... even less so now.

 

[SextusMaximus]

I see where you're coming from but it's a bit vague, isn't it?

 

[BENZOOKA]

Nah. No. Nein.

Loosely plausible, at least for a theory's sake. But you could probably make a theory that Whiterun represents Pittsburgh Penguins' management, if you picked up other stuff, and drew wild conclusions from there.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Loosely plausible, at least for a theory's sake. But you could probably make a theory that Whiterun represents Pittsburgh Penguins' management, if you picked up other stuff, and drew wild conclusions from there.

OMG Whiterun is TOTALLY the Penguins management!

It's all coming together now!

 

[Kotep]

lore

Could be, but in game it just makes NO sense anymore. Well... even less so now.

Alduin and Akatosh are both incarnations of some greater force-of-time, which each culture has a name for, whther it's Akatosh, or Alduin, or Auriel. Alduin describes himself as the 'son of Akatosh', but in Nordic lore, time as a whole is cyclical--Shor's full name is Shor Son of Shor, and the cycle of begetting himself repeats in both directions the same way it does with Alduin and Akatosh.

Different Aka-entities can even be in direct conflict, not merely indirect conflict--it's been said that if Tosh Raka wanted to, he could sail over to Tamriel and start attacking, and Akatosh could come to the aid of Tamriel, and you'd have one aspect of the god fighting a different aspect.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

The problem with making metaphors is that you can do it everywhere and to everything. I think the OP's interpretation is valid as long as you look only at Windhelm and the Nords at the exclusion of all else, and don't look too closely.

 

[BENZOOKA]

Loosely plausible, at least for a theory's sake. But you could probably make a theory that Whiterun represents Pittsburgh Penguins' management, if you picked up other stuff, and drew wild conclusions from there.

OMG Whiterun is TOTALLY the Penguins management!

It's all coming together now!

I know, right. It's like when you got a harmless disease or something and the NPC's will not stop to comment on how not alright you are, and at the same time you are this legendary dragonborn; it can't be anything else, but a direct metaphor to Sidney Crosby and his injuries that kept him out of play.

 

[Jaeke]

Stop giving Bethesda so many credit. Skyrim has a much-worse-than-awful main plot. It's a good theory, but I doubt Bethesda thought of it.
..And if they did, that's incredibly unoriginal, just taking WW2 and setting it in some fantasy land.

Killing Akatosh, they very guy who saved your ass in the last game, was a interesting plot twist.

And before people go "but Alduin isn't akatosh" yes, he actually is,

No. He's not. He's the first-born of Akatosh, that much was abundantly clear.

He is NOT Akatosh himself though in anyway shape or form.

He is the traditional Nord's depiction of Akatosh, both a god and their devil in a sense, but he's not the literal avatar of Akatosh.

 

[Jaeke]

I think you're looking a bit too far into it OP. There is a lot of racism between man and mer races in The Elder Scrolls universe, there's even more racism towards the beast races from both man and mer races. Dunmer are generally discriminated by everyone, Argonians and Khajit are tha same. The Dunmer went as far as enslaving hundreds of Argonions at one point.

Stop giving Bethesda so many credit. Skyrim has a much-worse-than-awful main plot. It's a good theory, but I doubt Bethesda thought of it.
..And if they did, that's incredibly unoriginal, just taking WW2 and setting it in some fantasy land.

Killing Akatosh, they very guy who saved your ass in the last game, was a interesting plot twist.

And before people go "but Alduin isn't akatosh" yes, he actually is,

From The Alduin/Akatosh Dichotomy

Determined to get to the heart of this matter, I consulted with several Nords, chief among them an old and respected clan chief by the name of Bjorn Much-Bloodied. And what surprised me most about those I talked to was not that they believed in Alduin instead of Akatosh, but that they recognized Alduin in addition to Akatosh. In fact, most children of Skyrim seem to view Akatosh in much the same way I do - he is, in fact, the Great Dragon. First among the Divines, perseverance personified and, more than anything, a force of supreme good in the world.

Alduin, they claim, is something altogether different.

In Tamriel almost all races believe that they are seperate beings. Couple this with some of the conversations between Paarthurnax and Odahviing and it's clear that Alduin, while powerful, isn't nearly the god that Akatosh is.

You're doomed now, man.
No one argues with Sajuuk about TES lore and lives.

Oh dear, I should have read the damn profile name.....

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Skyrim is a metaphor for Nazi Germany.

It doesn't really hold up beyond the name. And even then, it's known as the Fatherland because it marks the point where humans first landed on Tameril and was the home of the first Dragonborn Emperor.

Try Ulfric to begin with. I believe he is a metaphor for Hitler.

Again, it doesn't really hold under scrutiny.

He was very bitter about a previous war (with the Dominion) and hated the Dark Elves for it.

It was a war he lost, where he was captured and tortured all after having countless countrymen slaughtered around him. That's more than enough reason to hate elves in general. Most of these points serve to make his position reasonable rather than any attempt to draw a parallel to Hitler. There are other notable historical figures where this would work.

He was also a great public speaker, much like Hitler.

He's the leader of a popular rebellion. Those are very generally lead by someone who can work a crowd to the extent that it is one of the fundamental requirements of organized rebellion.

The first thing you notice when entering this place is a Dark Elf being abused and the ghetto that Dark Elves are forced to live in.

Segregation, racism and abuse/terror could represent any number of places and times. In fact, it would more or less stand in for just about anywhere more than a few hundred years ago. The American South in 1953 is a fairly modern example.

Most people you meet in Windhelm have a military background or are in some way supporting everything that Ulfric is saying, agreeing with his racist views and encouraging the war.

These are people who likewise often fought in a brutal war and lost and then had a fundamental tenant of their religion stolen from them. If anything, it offers a good representation of the Holy Land during the crusades.

I think it goes without saying that the Khajit represent travelling gypsies. They are discriminated against as well

Their pattern of speech actually better resembles any of a number of north african or middle eastern languages. Couple that with their basic environment (jungle and desert) and I think you'd find an easier time drawing a connection to a number of African or Asian nations than Eastern Europe. In fact, the only thing they have in common with gypsies is the nomadic lifestyle but this is largely enforced outside of Elsewyre because it's hard for a Kajiit to find a steady job.

with their caravans being routinely raided and destroyed.

Everyone's caravans are raided and destroyed. Bandits seem to be a terrible problem in Tammeriel.

What are your thoughts on this, Escapist? Am I onto something, or am I batshit insane?

Neither. You're simply drawing a connection when there isn't one.

You have a popular rebellion based on religion and nationalism lead by a guy who speaks well but probably wants power as much as anything else. Nazi Germany was not a popular rebellion, nor was religion much of a factor. Nationalism was there I suppose. Most of the racism comes from that nationalism thing in Skyrim and therein lies your one useful connection. By and large, I'd say you'd have a better time looking at places like the Holy Land during the Crusades or France towards the end of the hundred years war or the various conflicts in Chechnya or Lebanon's most recent Civil War. All of these have stronger parallels with Lebanon's being nearly perfect in every way.

In Lebanon, you had three basic factions: Maronite Christians, Sunni and Shia muslims. Historically, this region had been part of Syria (and earlier, Persia which we now call Iran). Following the end of a disastrous war (the Six Day War), several million Sunni muslims were displaced. Many ended up in Lebanon. There was a fragile balance of power between the three groups that was upset by the influx, providing a significant basis for the opening shots of the civil war. During the war, the various factions fielded militias of various strength and there were a number of leaders on all sides that could work crowds. Outside powers used the war as a way to expand their influence. The nation was occupied by both Israeli and Syrian forces until the end of the war when Israel largely retreated but a puppet government remained controlled by Syria until 2005 when a bombing killed an influential figure leading to yet another popular revolt and the precarious state of the nation today. Hezbollah was formed and is generally considered to be little more than an agent of the Iranian state.

The parallels you can draw in that particular case are impressive. You've got multiple factions separated by religion and cultural issues. You have outside powers with an obvious stake in the war. You've got obvious sectarian division which often resulted in racism by default (A Sunni Muslim in the area is likely to be Arab for example). You've got firebrand leaders on all sides. You've got milita units supported by outside powers attempting to move the conflict in a particular direction (kinda like the Thalmor justicars).

 

[Stu35]

The first thing you notice when entering this place is a Dark Elf being abused and the ghetto that Dark Elves are forced to live in. Remind you of anything?

Poor Black people in the United States of America? Windhelm is Harlem (or Compton, if you will), etc. etc. ad infinitum.


It's a big open game, and it's been pointed out that you can probably apply any damned 'metaphor' you want to Skyrim if you look hard enough for it.

So, I'm gonna join the majority, and say it's a coincidence, but I'll add that I too enjoy finding similarities in such things, so I've no drama with you doing it.

 

[katsumoto03]

I'd just like to point out that there is a huge difference between discrimination and attempted genocide.