Skyrim: What broke your immersion?
- Thread starter geK0
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Let's see
- indeed, the lack of respect you get despite you being pretty much the God-King-Emperor-Jesus of Skyrim
- NPCs that act like weird robots that are incapable of anything else than a pre-set response or two
- dragons that are supposed to be the absolute power can be killed by a pack of angry city guards without you even intervening
- ESSENTIAL, UNKILLABLE CHARACTERS. SERIOUSLY, BRING BACK THE 'YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT' FROM MORROWIND. I even downloaded the mod that sets all NPCs to non essential, but even then some of them are unkillable because Bethesda could apparently not live with the thought that someone would actually go out and kill Ulfric or Tullius or any of the companions, even with a mod.
- indeed, the lack of respect you get despite you being pretty much the God-King-Emperor-Jesus of Skyrim
- NPCs that act like weird robots that are incapable of anything else than a pre-set response or two
- dragons that are supposed to be the absolute power can be killed by a pack of angry city guards without you even intervening
- ESSENTIAL, UNKILLABLE CHARACTERS. SERIOUSLY, BRING BACK THE 'YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT' FROM MORROWIND. I even downloaded the mod that sets all NPCs to non essential, but even then some of them are unkillable because Bethesda could apparently not live with the thought that someone would actually go out and kill Ulfric or Tullius or any of the companions, even with a mod.
Not much really, sometimes I still easily fall in the abyss of epic gaming for 10+ hours even with multiple characters and despite all the bugs and such, I think the biggest problem is the ridiculous scaling and the lack of enemy types that are cool aside from dragons and I have a huge issue of actually bothering to go to Dragonsreach, I mean seriously I have always played a character at least 25h+ hours before I even consider "becoming" the Dragonborn...
Oh and by ridiculous scaling I mean everything is way way way too easy early and later on with Adept, too Hard on Master before you start Smithing (Well I have never had a character who has not smithed Ebony/Daedric around level 25-30:ish anyway) Not that I won't switch to Master every time I get even a slight boost ahead the normal curve, which happens very fast with stealth / Dual-wielding.
And Simply after reaching the "good" levels of 40-46+ everything is a cake-walk hence I made a new stealthy type and now he is 46 too and I am like "okay, bored of backstabbing 30x and shit, let's pick up archery, and boom everything still dies so fast thanks to a few % items"
And I can't even begin to think what the game would be like if I ever used Alchemy + Enchanting to insanely boost my gear, oh boy... BUT the game is still the greatest ever, though Dark Souls was way more challenging but obviously Single Player Sandboxes can't be designed to have too much of a difficulty.
Oh and by ridiculous scaling I mean everything is way way way too easy early and later on with Adept, too Hard on Master before you start Smithing (Well I have never had a character who has not smithed Ebony/Daedric around level 25-30:ish anyway) Not that I won't switch to Master every time I get even a slight boost ahead the normal curve, which happens very fast with stealth / Dual-wielding.
And Simply after reaching the "good" levels of 40-46+ everything is a cake-walk hence I made a new stealthy type and now he is 46 too and I am like "okay, bored of backstabbing 30x and shit, let's pick up archery, and boom everything still dies so fast thanks to a few % items"
And I can't even begin to think what the game would be like if I ever used Alchemy + Enchanting to insanely boost my gear, oh boy... BUT the game is still the greatest ever, though Dark Souls was way more challenging but obviously Single Player Sandboxes can't be designed to have too much of a difficulty.
I'm getting bugged by all the immortal people running around (Jarls, kids, Housecarls, quest givers, some random maid, etc). Every single town has several. Some people you wouldn't even think remotely relevant, they're immortal. Drives me batty. They need to teach me how. I want immortality too.
Honestly, the only time I've been immersed (or close to) is when I'm hunting over the big beautiful landscape (searching for something), fighting in battles that are actually challenging and the statue that wanted me to kill his dog once I found his weapon (my favourite character still).
Yup, and the fact that housecarls all have the exact same lines. They couldn't even put, e.g., an honourable female housecarl and then a grumpy reluctant male housecarl. They're not any different than summoned atronachs, which makes no sense when you think that both Fallout 3 and F:NV had companions with quite a bit of dialogue and backstory and proprietary quests of their own.Fieldy409 said:
For me, it was also the dungeon design. I'm sorry, Bethesda, I realize you quintupled the number of people in level design, but the dungeons still suck. Sure, they LOOK more unique now, but the progression is the same - linear sequence of rooms with the McGuffin in the last one, pointed out by the quest marker and guarded by an overpowered boss, followed by a backdoor that takes you to the first room of the dungeon. I wouldn't mind it so much if not for the fact that almost EVERY single quest in the game "culminates" with a dungeon crawl of some kind. They often start as a murder investigation, mysterious disappearance, ghost mystery, but invariably they point you towards a cave and put a quest marker in the last room. The world would literally run out of villains if they just sealed up all the caves and abandoned forts.
I think the first thing that broke my immersion was trying to loot gold from a trainer npc just to have it say that it was a 0% chance to steal. I mean wtf I'm a master pickpocket, I can take away every possession on their body and leave them stark naked but I can't take the gold because of this stupid programming?
The second was that for certain event or mini-bosses you can't stealth up on them. It is total bs, I can slit the throats of all the general thugs in an area but all of a sudden I try to take out the main guy and it engages me in a dialogue a mile away and he auto sees me instantly. If I wanted to talk I wouldn't be in damn stealth, talk is cheap, I want to slit this guys throat...but no you throw me into a conversation which leads to me fighting the guy head on which I am not built for and I get my ass handed to me.
Third was "dungeons" seriously when I go into a dungeon give me more interaction besides kill every idiot in here. I walked into a thieves' den and I found it to be overrun by some crazy creatures. I found a dude who barricaded himself in a room, I kill the creatures and open the door, oh guess what he initiates general thug mode and attacks me. Venture further 2 people captive in cells, they're yelling at me to help them and free them. I dispatch the crazy creatures and free them, oh look they turn thug mode and attack.
Clear out the dungeon and backtrack to the entrance, the head of the den comes back with her two companions, by the gods what happened here? Oh maybe I can go up to this lady and explain what happened and what I found. Nope. As soon as she spots me she spouts general enemy crap and attacks.
The second was that for certain event or mini-bosses you can't stealth up on them. It is total bs, I can slit the throats of all the general thugs in an area but all of a sudden I try to take out the main guy and it engages me in a dialogue a mile away and he auto sees me instantly. If I wanted to talk I wouldn't be in damn stealth, talk is cheap, I want to slit this guys throat...but no you throw me into a conversation which leads to me fighting the guy head on which I am not built for and I get my ass handed to me.
Third was "dungeons" seriously when I go into a dungeon give me more interaction besides kill every idiot in here. I walked into a thieves' den and I found it to be overrun by some crazy creatures. I found a dude who barricaded himself in a room, I kill the creatures and open the door, oh guess what he initiates general thug mode and attacks me. Venture further 2 people captive in cells, they're yelling at me to help them and free them. I dispatch the crazy creatures and free them, oh look they turn thug mode and attack.
Clear out the dungeon and backtrack to the entrance, the head of the den comes back with her two companions, by the gods what happened here? Oh maybe I can go up to this lady and explain what happened and what I found. Nope. As soon as she spots me she spouts general enemy crap and attacks.
Nothing, my suspension of disbelief won't be destroyed by something as simple as these things.
If I'm playing a game, I understand the limitations of the medium, I never expect the world to be flawless, so someone clipping through a rock or something won't phase me.
But if I had to pick one, it'd be that Khajit and Argonians can be the Dragonborn.
A cat and a lizard? Chosen Heroes? Save the world? I think not... Only humans can be heroes.
If I'm playing a game, I understand the limitations of the medium, I never expect the world to be flawless, so someone clipping through a rock or something won't phase me.
But if I had to pick one, it'd be that Khajit and Argonians can be the Dragonborn.
A cat and a lizard? Chosen Heroes? Save the world? I think not... Only humans can be heroes.
Listen, I'm really enjoying Skyrim. Most parts are an improvement over Oblivion, but I think Bethesda may have accidentally snipped a few chunks of meat whilst they were trimming the fat.
The lack of consequences for your actions is a really big one. Whether it's positive or negative, there seems to be little to no reaction to what you do. Despite my open display of The Voice and dragon soul absorption, there are still guards that insist that perhaps they are the Dragonborn. And there's that asshole in Whiterun who constantly inquires as to my visits to the Cloud District only to rub his smugness in my face. Funny considering I'm pretty chummy with the Jarl.
All of the freedom is just an illusion. There's usually only one way to do every quest with nothing interesting to do for a second playthrough. Where's my option to challenge Ulfric to the throne? What if I'm a High Elf, why can't I join the Thalmor and be an agent for them? Hell, half of the playable races don't have motivation for joining either the Stormcloaks or Imperials, where's their motivation?
And the companions, sweet Mara the companions. Lydia shows only a sliver of personality when you ask to trade stuff with her, to which she replies almost petulantly 'I'm sworn to carry your burdens'. From that line alone I can derive that she's duty bound, but doesn't think she should be your pack mule. But that, sadly, is about the only personality we see. Farkas explains he's scared of Frostbite Spiders at one point, but bring him along and he'll mow them down without fear. It would have been better off if they'd all just been uninvolved, heartless sellswords.
And just a little niggle that ties in with my disdain for the lack of attributes; carry weight. It's now tied to your stamina. So my slender thief can carry a lot more than my hulking Nord, that just doesn't sit right with me.
Oh, one more thing. A few fort wipes, a dungeon dive and then a final tomb raid and the Companions questline is over? Really? After that it's just redundant Radiant requests. No epic conflicts or complex internal dilemmas? Jeez, becoming the Harbinger doesn't take much does it?
The lack of consequences for your actions is a really big one. Whether it's positive or negative, there seems to be little to no reaction to what you do. Despite my open display of The Voice and dragon soul absorption, there are still guards that insist that perhaps they are the Dragonborn. And there's that asshole in Whiterun who constantly inquires as to my visits to the Cloud District only to rub his smugness in my face. Funny considering I'm pretty chummy with the Jarl.
All of the freedom is just an illusion. There's usually only one way to do every quest with nothing interesting to do for a second playthrough. Where's my option to challenge Ulfric to the throne? What if I'm a High Elf, why can't I join the Thalmor and be an agent for them? Hell, half of the playable races don't have motivation for joining either the Stormcloaks or Imperials, where's their motivation?
And the companions, sweet Mara the companions. Lydia shows only a sliver of personality when you ask to trade stuff with her, to which she replies almost petulantly 'I'm sworn to carry your burdens'. From that line alone I can derive that she's duty bound, but doesn't think she should be your pack mule. But that, sadly, is about the only personality we see. Farkas explains he's scared of Frostbite Spiders at one point, but bring him along and he'll mow them down without fear. It would have been better off if they'd all just been uninvolved, heartless sellswords.
And just a little niggle that ties in with my disdain for the lack of attributes; carry weight. It's now tied to your stamina. So my slender thief can carry a lot more than my hulking Nord, that just doesn't sit right with me.
Oh, one more thing. A few fort wipes, a dungeon dive and then a final tomb raid and the Companions questline is over? Really? After that it's just redundant Radiant requests. No epic conflicts or complex internal dilemmas? Jeez, becoming the Harbinger doesn't take much does it?
Bethesda boasted that all the dungeons looked different. I found that after the 4th one they all looked the same. The same cave textures and the same nordic ruin textures started to get to me to a point where I stopped playing my dungeon dwelling character and built a pure outdoor huntsman.
I really hope you didn't buy Bethesda's BS on dungeon variation. You can't have variation when you have tens of dungeons(some of which are pretty big). I have explored around 30 dungeons/ruins so far and there are maybe 4 variations between them.Neekoolawous said:
Regarding the original question of immersion, it's because you have no impact on the world around you. You can be dragonborn, master of the thieves guild, leader of the companions and mage guild and yet people will ask you the same questions as when you first entered through the gates of the city. Bethesda is simply inconsistent on this. Sometimes people will acknowledge the fact that your age good with magic or two swords and call you munchkin of the guild in the next sentence.
I still have a go meet Brynjolf in my quest log and I'm freaking master of the guild.