Skyrim: Yeah, it's good, but...

[Zhukov]

I'll play the obvious quote/unquote 'fanboy' here and say, "Sorry our massive, open-world game with hundreds of hours of gameplay variety, that is basically a fantasy rpg toolbox to craft your own story, doesn't have a linear enough story for you. I'm sorry all the resources available weren't put into making all of the hundreds of denizens of Skyrim move as realistically as you'd like. I'm sorry your ADD won't let you have a cluttered questlog without ripping your toenails out. I'm sorry you didn't see all the little things put into each dungeon to tell it's story without shoving it in your face."

Joking aside, it's really all about what you want out of it. Looking for a more polished, streamlined, start to finish game like say, Uncharted, will really throw you off when you're given so much freedom. You're perhaps not used to letting an rpg build the story along with you? For me, a simple fetch quest can take me several (in game) days, since I often become distracted by a myriad of things on the way, which is super fun for me. Like the time I came upon a group of snooty elves who thought I didn't give them a wide enough berth. I hope they have a wide enough berth now that they're in Oblivion. MWahahahahaha!

I'm honestly not saying "Omg, you suck! Skyrim RULES YOUR STUPID FACE!" or anything, but a lot of people are going into this huge experience with expectations set up by other games. And while that's not inherently wrong, it's definitely a disservice to yourself and the huge rpg sandbox that is Skyrim.

I must take issue with this notion of a sandbox within which to build your own story.

I think it is basically impossible to build a story within Skyrim. Or at least impossible to build a good one, with pacing and twists and arcs and character development and all that good stuff that a story needs.

My only real option outside of the 'official' story is, "After escaping his execution, Sir Tusky travelled the land helping out assorted strangers and brutally murdering the multitudes of men and beasts that persistently sought to do him in, usually because he was trespassing in their homes and stealing their stuff." It's either that or, "Sir Tusky travelled the land helping absolutely nobody and murdering anything that moved, except the ones who were mysteriously unkillable no matter how many times he shot them." Quite frankly, neither of those constitutes a good story.

There isn't really any capacity for role-playing either. Yes, I could make up a backstory, personality and motivations for Sir Tusky the Sneaky Orc and I briefly considered doing so. However it would have absolutely no relevance to the game because there's no way to express it or have the game react to it. The closest I have come to role play is turning down a few quests. At the end of the day, the only character available is a violent kleptomaniac with an obsessive desire for exploration.

I completely agree with you. There is a lack of depth depth within the game. When you're making a game on this scale thats inevitable. However, what Skyrim does have is potential for your own experiences. Stuff that was unique to your playthrough.

Think back to the most memorable moments in the game. Chances are it wasn't some big setpeice or pivotal story moment. More likely it was that time you scraped through a fight with 2 HP and no more health potions. The time when you ran away from a dragon only to walk straight into a giant. The time the game glitched out and the bear you were fighting began flying.

Skyrim's freedom (and mild instability) is what makes it such a great game. It lets you have your own experience with it and for that it is brilliant.

My most memorable moment (m-m-m-m-m-m) was finally getting my collection of lich masks to line up on my bedroom shelf. Also, the time a dead dragon just fell out of the sky for no apparent reason and promptly dissolved.

...

Okay, good point.

You make a convincing and persuasive argument and now I wonder how the reviewers who gave it a perfect 10 can justify that. I haven't played Skyrim but I gave up on oblivion after about half an hour and fallout 3 looks even worse.

That's really not what I was trying to get across. Like I said, I think it's a good game. I can see why someone who was into sandboxes and fantasy would give it a perfect 10, even if I would not.

Also, getting prissy about review scores is not becoming.

 

[DracoSuave]

Magic needs to be more powerful/more difficult to use. If I hit someone with a stream of fire, why do they contiue their berserker attack at me? THEY ARE ON FIRE. That HURTS, they should be flailing around screaming or rolling on the ground.

Intense Flames
prereq 50 Destro + Augmented Flames + Novice Destro

you can have what you want

Look, you want the enemies to get staggered a bit in combat... and here there are perks that cause enemies to get staggered by your blows in combat.

It's like you're not taking the things that make the play do what you want. You can't blame Beth for not having them; they're in there.

so that said every bethesda game has a kick ass major quest, right.

with the exception of Daggerfall, Morrowind, Fallout 3, and Oblivion

 

[ChupathingyX]

The way they took the hint and hired a bunch more voice actors, but then had them all say the exact same lines.

I don't know if you can answer this (this is open to anyone), but how many characters does Jim Cummings voice?

I was looking through the VA list and his name was there and apparently he voices some random dudes in a town called Falkreath or something like that.

This may seem really random, but I'm extremely curious as to who else, and how many, characters he voices.

 

[babinro]

I think the Elder Scrolls series has reached a fine line. People love the games but they just feel older and older as they come out. The evidence of quantity over quality is all the more obvious with each new release.

I hope their next release really focuses on making the combat system feel like a current generation game in terms of being fun and compelling. As the OP mentions, I hope they can put a greater focus on subplot story lines and characterization. Give the players difficult choices to make, rather than simple MMO type fetch/kill/steal quests with little to no meaning after they're performed.

 

[King of the Sandbox]

I'll play the obvious quote/unquote 'fanboy' here and say, "Sorry our massive, open-world game with hundreds of hours of gameplay variety, that is basically a fantasy rpg toolbox to craft your own story, doesn't have a linear enough story for you. I'm sorry all the resources available weren't put into making all of the hundreds of denizens of Skyrim move as realistically as you'd like. I'm sorry your ADD won't let you have a cluttered questlog without ripping your toenails out. I'm sorry you didn't see all the little things put into each dungeon to tell it's story without shoving it in your face."

Joking aside, it's really all about what you want out of it. Looking for a more polished, streamlined, start to finish game like say, Uncharted, will really throw you off when you're given so much freedom. You're perhaps not used to letting an rpg build the story along with you? For me, a simple fetch quest can take me several (in game) days, since I often become distracted by a myriad of things on the way, which is super fun for me. Like the time I came upon a group of snooty elves who thought I didn't give them a wide enough berth. I hope they have a wide enough berth now that they're in Oblivion. MWahahahahaha!

I'm honestly not saying "Omg, you suck! Skyrim RULES YOUR STUPID FACE!" or anything, but a lot of people are going into this huge experience with expectations set up by other games. And while that's not inherently wrong, it's definitely a disservice to yourself and the huge rpg sandbox that is Skyrim.

I must take issue with this notion of a sandbox within which to build your own story.

I think it is basically impossible to build a story within Skyrim. Or at least impossible to build a good one, with pacing and twists and arcs and character development and all that good stuff that a story needs.

My only real option outside of the 'official' story is, "After escaping his execution, Sir Tusky travelled the land helping out assorted strangers and brutally murdering the multitudes of men and beasts that persistently sought to do him in, usually because he was trespassing in their homes and stealing their stuff." It's either that or, "Sir Tusky travelled the land helping absolutely nobody and murdering anything that moved, except the ones who were mysteriously unkillable no matter how many times he shot them." Quite frankly, neither of those constitutes a good story.

There isn't really any capacity for role-playing either. Yes, I could make up a backstory, personality and motivations for Sir Tusky the Sneaky Orc and I briefly considered doing so. However it would have absolutely no relevance to the game because there's no way to express it or have the game react to it. The closest I have come to role play is turning down a few quests. At the end of the day, the only character available is a violent kleptomaniac with an obsessive desire for exploration.

Hmmm. I dunno, I don't seem to be having a problem with it, but again, I'm an avid pen and paper rpg player, so I may have a more expanded mental toolset for it.

Here, here's a few of the facebook statuses written in journal form, to help illustrate what I do;

"Day 59

We were traveling to Whitrun through the cover of night, when we passed a contengent of elven soldiers. I assumed I had given them a wide enough berth, but the flippant mouth of their leader indicated I had not. Finding offense in his tone, and far too little respect, I conjured a flame atrinoch to aid me, right before unleashing my own fury. Now we've got three full suits of slightly singed elven gear to take to market."

"Day 60

We awoke to the sounds of mammoths trumpeting across the hot springs of southwestern Skyrim. Faendal mentioned that mammoths usually meant giants as well, so we gathered up camp and proceeded towards Whiterun. It wasn't long before we saw them in earnest. Two giants, every bit as tall as an oak tree, were leading a pair of mammoths, only barely shorter than the giants, through the open grassland near the edge of the hot springs. As we passed, they seemed docile, so I moved towards them, in an ill-advised effort to make friends. Faenral charged after me, calling for me to stop, but it was too late. The giants had seen me, and were not at all pleased with my intrusion. I quickly conjured a flame my atrinoch, S'lyk, and withdrew my axe from it's sheath."

"Day 64

While in Windhelm on business, I overheard a couple of Nords accusing the Dunmer of the area of being spies for the Empire. One loutish oaf even mentioned how he liked to patrol the Dark Elves' small quarter of the town at night, finding lone mer to 'interrogate'. I said nothing, holding my tongue, and walked on to my business.

As night fell, however, I removed my helm, revealing with no doubt my Dunmer heritage, and began to walk the dark streets of the unmaintained, cramped quarter that was the Dunmer's home in Windhelm. I had asked Faendal and Barbas to wait for me at the tavern, but only Faendal obliged me, eager as he was, he said, for a bit of honeyed ale. Barbas (my canine companion), however, was not to be dissuaded. Shrugging, I sighed in exasperation, for arguing with a dog, even a talking one, is, I have found, a fruitless venture more often than not.

Reaching the Dunmer district, it was not even an hour before a familiar human figure came swaggering towards me from a closed shopfront doorway."

 

[Genibus]

The way they took the hint and hired a bunch more voice actors, but then had them all say the exact same lines.

I don't know if you can answer this (this is open to anyone), but how many characters does Jim Cummings voice?

I was looking through the VA list and his name was there and apparently he voices some random dudes in a town called Falkreath or something like that.

This may seem really random, but I'm extremely curious as to who else, and how many, characters he voices.

Like Oblivion the only person you need to care about whose voice is awesome is the character Max Von Sydow plays.

Just like Oblivion's short yet epic voice actor.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Like Oblivion the only person you need to care about whose voice is awesome is the character Max Von Sydow plays.

Just like Oblivion's short yet epic voice actor.

I'm not a big fan of voice actors brought in to provide very short roles.

All I care about is how many characters Jim Cummings voices, and how major they are.

 

[Talux]

Yeah, the OP is right about the empty world thing.

You do get a whole series of different quests to do and guilds to join, but you never really get a great deal of choice about things. It's a game that's essentially a sight-seeing tour with most of the choice placed into character builds, exploration and the order in which you do quests. Luckily the world design is amazing and there's a lot of really cool stuff to see and do.

Still, I never feel like I'm making any impact in Skyrim. Kinda like WoW in that regard. The world never changes.

At the end of one particular chain I was asked if I wanted to eternally serve the god of whatever and the only option was 'Yes'. Except for my character this didn't make any sense. After getting one particular skill I kinda liked the idea role playing a champion of a another deity. After doing a bunch of quests apparently I was in the service of several gods (again without any 'no' options) but none of it had any real impact on my character and none of it was ever mentioned again. Not to mention being the dragonborn.

It's a great game but yeah, I don't know, I just wish the game didn't feel so hollow at times.

 

[pirateninj4]

I don't like how you can't use your shield without first drawing your sword. You could do it in oblivion so why the change?

Also combat still sucks ass. The afformentioned button mashing and potion chugging was revolutionary circa 1983...

Your avatar is awesome. Jackie Chan in the fucking man. No question.

I agree also with your post. However I am enjoying it more than I enjoyed BF3, Space Marine and Deus Ex. I'd say that's a win.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Love this game. Like its more closer to Morrowind in difficulty than Oblivion. There are issues that i hate, like the Thieves guild quest being about murder than thieving. An i wish there were more stuff to find, like dwemer designs etc But thats just me thinking of Morrowind. lol. It does freeze every now and then, but given its size and scope thats ok. You can never 100% make a game like this bug free due to the size. Like they made higher class armours rare, glass, ebony and daedric.

Also Goldbrand and Umbra are not in the game? But im guessing in DLC there will be a quest to get them.

I guess you make your own adventure. You get sidetracked to see whats round the next corner. People that like a specific goal wont like this game at all. I guess you have to exist in the game, become part of it.

As a side note, i want a Dark Brotherhood game, although i did grow to like the characters in Skyrim, i loved the DB guys in Oblivion. Also they have the best missions. Maybe bring back the Morag Tong?

 

[Ruwrak]

Snip

Well let me be the first one then

OMG I HATE YOU FOR CRITISISING SKYRIM! WTFMEWLRKJDRL:K

Happy?
Hmm well I can see what cha mean. The main story line is.. well just as interesting as any story line actually. Not so much. (ME's storyline was yawnalicious too. Uncharted as well and let's not get started on MW or BF )

I do wonder why you think the Stealth System is broken. I find it actually an improvement over the one from Oblivion. And who chugs health potions anyway? Things drop like flies due to my awesome bow distraction skills followed by two sharp pointy things in the back.

I love skyrim, I'll admit that. I'm not bothered by trivial matters like the graphics and suches, but you know, you do have a point every now and then and of course there are little annoyances. I just can't get worked up over it. I seriously can't. It's one of those games where I take it's flaws for granted and embrace them. Even though they lead me to my death every now and then. The combat is just what you make of it for yourself. Sure you can mash the attack button till it's dust, but with expert timing you can counterattack. And I kinda live for that feeling of superiority (Of course it also happens that I get instacountered and killed in one shot every now and then but... egh, my fault for sucking )

But I guess that for people who are less in love with the franchise it might feel mediocre or 'unfinished' as it is right now. And that's fine actually.

 

[SirCannonFodder]

Also (because it took me a while to figure out), you can zoom the camera as well, so you can get the full body shot in there. Now, if only someone would make a mod that let you move the camera while having an attack readied...

Hold down the "Change POV" button.

Anyway, while I absolutely love Bethesda games (Daggerfall, Morrowind, and FO3 are amongst my favourite games), one thing I dislike is how little chance for actual roleplaying there is. Sure, you can set up your character's stats however you like, but there's usually only one way to complete a quest, only one or two dialogue options to choose in a conversation topic, and choosing whether or not to do a quest basically boils down to "Sure, I'll do it." or "Sure, I'll do it later."

And while they're great at crafting amazing worlds that are fun to explore (the way they weave little stories into locations using things like journals and props actually makes exploration compelling, something most developers don't seem to realise), those worlds are mostly static, very rarely actually reacting to your actions or choices in any meaningful way.

 

[MrBenSampson]

I played Skyrim for 24 hours in one sitting yesterday, so it's needless to say that I like the game. That being said, I think Bethesda made a lot of mistakes. Morrowind and Oblivion did a lot of things better.

I really don't like the sprinting. The athletics skill and speed attribute of the previous games were so much better. By the time I got to level 50 in Oblivion, my character was fast enough to make riding a horse pointless. In Skyrim, I have to sprint until my stamina drains, jog for a little while, and then sprint some more. Travelling is now a chore. I'd buy a horse, but I don't know if Lydia could ride one as well.

One thing that actually pisses me off is how the console version doesn't have hot-keys. I'm forced to use that favourite system, which takes just as long to go through as my inventory in Oblivion. If the interface in Skyrim hadn't been redesigned into a mess, the favourite system would be redundant. It bothers me to the point where I commit to one weapon at a time.

Another thing that bugs me a little is how the weapons and armour never break. That makes it feel like Bethesda simplified the game for people who are not RPG fans.

Why did Bethesda add regenerating health? I didn't like it in Call of Duty, so there is no way I'd like it in the Elder Scrolls. It's another thing that makes it feel like they're catering the mainstream audience.

Something that I'm quite upset about is that I can't make my own spells. All of the destruction spells I used in Oblivion were custom made, and I'd always include soul-trap. I had Azura's star on a hot-key, and I'd recharge my Warhammer after almost every battle. I had my warhammer enchanted with a similar spell, so I captured thousands of souls(mostly mudcrabs). I actually managed to soul-trap Umaril, and I was a little disappointed that Bethesda didn't script anything in case the player did that.

The last one I want to mention is that I'm not a fan of the duel-wielding. I thought it was perfect in Oblivion when I could have a spell ready along with my warhammer. The way it is now is almost worse than Morrowind. At least then I could switch between weapons and magic with a single button press.

 

[King of the Sandbox]

Also (because it took me a while to figure out), you can zoom the camera as well, so you can get the full body shot in there. Now, if only someone would make a mod that let you move the camera while having an attack readied...

Hold down the "Change POV" button.

Gracias! That'd been bugging me for a while now. ^_^

 

[M920CAIN]

I find one thing to be true for Skyrim: Story can be easily broken if you don't keep in mind that you have the power to roleplay it. I guess imagination has to come in to fill in the gaps. Also for the combat system I try my best to dodge attacks, shield butt, jump, etc to avoid using potions or anything mystical, I like my warrior to be a warrior , but it would be nice if skyrim had a few buttons that you could set up like the quick buttons in Mass Effect 2. Using only Q for favorites thus stopping the game and scrolling through stuff can break the action sometimes. Hopefully some mods or patches will add the ability to map buttons for potions and weapons.

 

[Fasckira]

You guys are winrars in my book. This game is my own personal D&D simulator. I do the exact same things. In fact, I've been updating my Facebook status like a journal written by my character, putting the adventures I've run into in a more creative form, reminiscent of what I do as I actually play.

Skyrim is a toolset, a campaign, an awesome set of DM core rules that let you go out and craft your own tale, indeed.

This guy and those he quoted have got it. To me, its a roleplaying adventure, imagination to an extent is required and you shouldn't need to be spoon fed every detail. Part of the enjoyment is building up a background to your character and exploring the game's world with that mindset.

 

[Hazy]

Skyrim could have been so much less of a disappointment...If Todd Howard were wearing a muzzle...

Alas, I'm relatively pleased with it so far.

Now we just need a patch. C'mon Bethesda, any day now.

 

[spartan231490]

Disagree with every one of your points, especially the hint that skyrim isn't a great game, because it is. It's the greatest game of the console generation, if not the decade.

Also these guys know where it's at:

I completely agree with you. There is a lack of depth depth within the game. When you're making a game on this scale thats inevitable. However, what Skyrim does have is potential for your own experiences. Stuff that was unique to your playthrough.

Think back to the most memorable moments in the game. Chances are it wasn't some big setpeice or pivotal story moment. More likely it was that time you scraped through a fight with 2 HP and no more health potions. The time when you ran away from a dragon only to walk straight into a giant. The time the game glitched out and the bear you were fighting began flying.

Skyrim's freedom (and mild instability) is what makes it such a great game. It lets you have your own experience with it and for that it is brilliant.

Internet high-five for you.

This is what I've been saying. I think most of the dissatisfaction comes from people who aren't used to using their own imagination, and expect to be led everywhere, straight through on rails, without, y'know ROLE-PLAYING.

This ain't Uncharted or Mass Effect... it's Skyrim, a giant sandbox... and some people are in that sandbox, angry at the sand for not telling them what to to, or holding their interest. And it makes me a sad panda. But not too sad, once I jack back into my medieval fantasy matrix. ^_^

 

[Genibus]

I played Skyrim for 24 hours in one sitting yesterday, so it's needless to say that I like the game. That being said, I think Bethesda made a lot of mistakes. Morrowind and Oblivion did a lot of things better.

I really don't like the sprinting. The athletics skill and speed attribute of the previous games were so much better. By the time I got to level 50 in Oblivion, my character was fast enough to make riding a horse pointless. In Skyrim, I have to sprint until my stamina drains, jog for a little while, and then sprint some more. Travelling is now a chore. I'd buy a horse, but I don't know if Lydia could ride one as well.

One thing that actually pisses me off is how the console version doesn't have hot-keys. I'm forced to use that favourite system, which takes just as long to go through as my inventory in Oblivion. If the interface in Skyrim hadn't been redesigned into a mess, the favourite system would be redundant. It bothers me to the point where I commit to one weapon at a time.

Another thing that bugs me a little is how the weapons and armour never break. That makes it feel like Bethesda simplified the game for people who are not RPG fans.

Why did Bethesda add regenerating health? I didn't like it in Call of Duty, so there is no way I'd like it in the Elder Scrolls. It's another thing that makes it feel like they're catering the mainstream audience.

Something that I'm quite upset about is that I can't make my own spells. All of the destruction spells I used in Oblivion were custom made, and I'd always include soul-trap. I had Azura's star on a hot-key, and I'd recharge my Warhammer after almost every battle. I had my warhammer enchanted with a similar spell, so I captured thousands of souls(mostly mudcrabs). I actually managed to soul-trap Umaril, and I was a little disappointed that Bethesda didn't script anything in case the player did that.

The last one I want to mention is that I'm not a fan of the duel-wielding. I thought it was perfect in Oblivion when I could have a spell ready along with my warhammer. The way it is now is almost worse than Morrowind. At least then I could switch between weapons and magic with a single button press.

Because repairing armor and weapons with a huge stack of blacksmithing hammers after a few fights is really what RPGS are all about?

Regenerating health is mainstream because this is a hardcore game. K.

Sprinting is so dumb because raising an arbitrary skill that should be a basic function of humanoids is more RPG like and adds to the overall gameplay by being able to run faster than a horse.

These all sound valid and worth considering.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Disagree with every one of your points, especially the hint that skyrim isn't a great game, because it is. It's the greatest game of the console generation, if not the decade.

That's what i like to call having an opinion as i would like to disagree that Skyrim is not the greatest game of the console generation or the decade and i believe he can hint all he wants that Skyrim isn't a great game because everyone is allowed an opinion and mine happens to reside with his.