Dude, he served you your ass on a plate, time to eat it up and forget about it.CardinalPiggles said:
Slowly abandoning Diablo 3
- Thread starter zinho73
- Start date
Man, I think I played 50 hours of Final Fantasy 12 on my first week. Ended up playing 150 hours. O_OEcksTeaSea said:
That's a cogent argument, and I guess we'll see how it bears out. Unquestionably there are balancing issues that are going to come to light, I don't think for a second this thing has polished balance out of the box. I'm not sure allowing people to dynamically respec is a net negative, though. Leveling a SECOND Barbarian because unfortunate skill choices gimped the first is not compelling game play, nor is it a substitute for depth. Ideally you want people speccing differently because different specs suit different playstyles, not because they fucked it up the first time around and they're too lazy to change it.NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Oh man. Can't believe I'm still seeing people post in Diablo 3 threads trying to make up bullshit excuses for the Always-On DRM, the Auction House, etc, etc. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.
I especially love the circular logic. "Diablo 3 has Always-On DRM because it's a multi-player game! And it's a multi-player game because you have to be online to play it!"
:|
Even better, I love when people use the "it stops hackers and item dupers" excuse.
First, no it doesn't. Not on the first part, anyway.
Second, I'd be willing to accept the "stops dupers" argument if it weren't for the fact that that is NOT an excuse for requiring all modes of play being online. There's no legitimate (consumer friendly) reason solo play couldn't be allowed in offline mode. Though, it's not like any other game company figured out a way to stop item duping while still allowing online AND offline play, so maybe Blizzard does have an excuse.
Oh wait... http://www.tf2.com/
Seriously people. STOP defending this bullshit; especially if you love Diablo (and by extension Blizzard). The more you accept all of this, and the more you make up excuse on behalf of Blizzard, the greater the likelihood they'll tack on more and more egregious forms of it in the future.
As I've been saying all along; and as Jim recently repeated in his latest video; if you love Diablo, you should be the one complaining the loudest.
O.T.
Totally agree with the OP. There just feels like an extreme lack of depth and variety to Diablo 3. Especially when compared to Diablo 2 or other ARPGs.
Which, of course, isn't surprising. Blizzard has made it abundantly clear Diablo 3 was trimmed down, dumb-downed, and overly simplified for the World of Warcraft crowd.
Basically, instead of crafting a true sequel to one of, if not the, greatest ARPGs, they played it safe and made a game meant to appeal to the lowest-common-denominator. It's only staying power will be suckering people in by addicting them to grinding for, and then selling, items.
It's a God damned shame, really.
[edit]
To avoid any undue rage, let it be known that I am a HUGE fan of Diablo. I still play Diablo 2 from time to time. I also eagerly awaited the release of Diablo 3. (eagerly is a vast understatement)
However, Diablo 3 not only ended up being almost the opposite of what I hoped for, it's just insulting to a long-time fan. In terms of the mediocre game design, poor writing, and the obnoxious Always-On. (and that's not even going into the absolute disregard and disdain Blizzard apparently has for the community as a whole; modding or otherwise.)
Even worse, Blizzard wants me to pay sixty bucks for it? Ha! Fat chance.
I especially love the circular logic. "Diablo 3 has Always-On DRM because it's a multi-player game! And it's a multi-player game because you have to be online to play it!"
:|
Even better, I love when people use the "it stops hackers and item dupers" excuse.
First, no it doesn't. Not on the first part, anyway.
Second, I'd be willing to accept the "stops dupers" argument if it weren't for the fact that that is NOT an excuse for requiring all modes of play being online. There's no legitimate (consumer friendly) reason solo play couldn't be allowed in offline mode. Though, it's not like any other game company figured out a way to stop item duping while still allowing online AND offline play, so maybe Blizzard does have an excuse.
Oh wait... http://www.tf2.com/
Seriously people. STOP defending this bullshit; especially if you love Diablo (and by extension Blizzard). The more you accept all of this, and the more you make up excuse on behalf of Blizzard, the greater the likelihood they'll tack on more and more egregious forms of it in the future.
As I've been saying all along; and as Jim recently repeated in his latest video; if you love Diablo, you should be the one complaining the loudest.
O.T.
Totally agree with the OP. There just feels like an extreme lack of depth and variety to Diablo 3. Especially when compared to Diablo 2 or other ARPGs.
Which, of course, isn't surprising. Blizzard has made it abundantly clear Diablo 3 was trimmed down, dumb-downed, and overly simplified for the World of Warcraft crowd.
Basically, instead of crafting a true sequel to one of, if not the, greatest ARPGs, they played it safe and made a game meant to appeal to the lowest-common-denominator. It's only staying power will be suckering people in by addicting them to grinding for, and then selling, items.
It's a God damned shame, really.
[edit]
To avoid any undue rage, let it be known that I am a HUGE fan of Diablo. I still play Diablo 2 from time to time. I also eagerly awaited the release of Diablo 3. (eagerly is a vast understatement)
However, Diablo 3 not only ended up being almost the opposite of what I hoped for, it's just insulting to a long-time fan. In terms of the mediocre game design, poor writing, and the obnoxious Always-On. (and that's not even going into the absolute disregard and disdain Blizzard apparently has for the community as a whole; modding or otherwise.)
Even worse, Blizzard wants me to pay sixty bucks for it? Ha! Fat chance.
Blizz, short on money? HAH! They have enough money to pay off the U.S's debt and still not make a dent in their fortune.zinho73 said:
Honestly, it's been too long since Diablo 2, so I can't remember the nuts and bolts of their respec system, but the one in most MMOs (including WoW) is designed to be somewhat punitive. You can respec your way out of a failure, but you can't respec around to try new skills or builds on for size. You're encouraged to pick something and stick with it, lest the exponentially rising respec cost send you straight to the poor house.NameIsRobertPaulson said:
I agree with you about Diablo II's "one right spec" situation, which is why a similar future for Diablo III would be unsurprising in the extreme.
The loot homogenization is something of an issue. The loot has less "soul" than it did in Diablo 2, for lack of a better term. It was a problem I had with Torchlight as well.
My problem is NO OTHER COMPANY could get away with this. None. Valves fans would get angry I think, bioware's fans would be, but blizzard gets away with it because their series is so damn popular.
As someone who's not a fan of blizzard at all, from an objective standpoint there are a huge amount of things wrong with diablo 3, and not just this DRM and RMAH nonsense. The game just seems dull.
Any other company trying to do a RMAH or online only would be shouted at, look at assassins creed 2 with ubisoft.
As someone who's not a fan of blizzard at all, from an objective standpoint there are a huge amount of things wrong with diablo 3, and not just this DRM and RMAH nonsense. The game just seems dull.
Any other company trying to do a RMAH or online only would be shouted at, look at assassins creed 2 with ubisoft.
One of the things I've found about these "anticipated games" is you can't critique them. The majority of the world loves these games, you loved these games, but the amount of players the series has devoted to its hivemind become an immune system that routes out and destroys anything threatening to the franchise. So many people have become submissive because they don't want everyone to think them weird for disliking Diablo. "Yea, it has problems, but just keep your mouth shut and enjoy the game they worked hard on." NO. It has issues and it being popular does not make those issues less relevant. Remember when people where calling others entitled stuck up whiners for not liking Mass Effects ending? Its the same damn thing.
Diablo 3 may be an ok game, but stop defending it like it saved your family from starvation. Its not a benevolent god that caresses you while you touch yourself. Publishers don't care about your devotion unless it brings them money. Stop it.
Diablo 3 may be an ok game, but stop defending it like it saved your family from starvation. Its not a benevolent god that caresses you while you touch yourself. Publishers don't care about your devotion unless it brings them money. Stop it.
I'm glad someone gifted it to me. I was never interested in it, and I don't see what all the fuss was about.
It's an average game, with stupid DRM.
It's an average game, with stupid DRM.
I agree. I didn't make it nearly as far as you did though. I made it maybe 10 hours and just stopped caring. When I don't get excited about leveling up, it really irks me. The grind is just not fun like it was in Diablo II, at least for me. Maybe its because my computer barely runs it at all, but I infinitely prefer Diablo II. It's not even close.
The thing that irks me the most though is the "random dungeon" aspect of the game. Look, if I spend 30 freakin' minutes wandering around trying to figure out where to go, the next time I log in I do NOT want to do it again. Not quite sure what they were thinkin there....
The thing that irks me the most though is the "random dungeon" aspect of the game. Look, if I spend 30 freakin' minutes wandering around trying to figure out where to go, the next time I log in I do NOT want to do it again. Not quite sure what they were thinkin there....
This is a problem though, how you're expressing yourself. This is precisely no different than the ME3 debacle, only you're on the other side of it now. You're the one poisoning the well by applying blanket personal attacks to an entire unseen group of people. Instead of "entitled whiners", now they're part of the Blizzard fanboy hive mind. Instead of crybabies, they're corporate drones. This "us versus them" mentality is not only counterproductive as far as polite discussion goes, it's intellectually sloppy and utterly irrational.Don Savik said:
You have to allow that some people are going to defend the game because they actually like the game. Others are going to hand wave the always online aspect because it doesn't affect them. You want the people DEFENDING the game to lay off the hyperbole? Earlier today we had someone equating the rise of DRM to the fucking Holocaust. Easily half the people I've spoken to have gone at me like a rabid dog because I refer to the DRM as an irritation that only inconveniences some, as opposed to the great evil of our time. One that we as individuals have an ethical imperative to band together and fight. I shit you not. If it sound ludicrous, it's because it is ludicrous.
You want to see a hive mind? I could go write a new post right now, and fill it with some random, fabricated negative spew about Diablo 3 or Blizzard. And I'd have a dozen people riled up and 100% behind me before the first person asked me to verify my facts. Confirmation bias and opinion polarization isn't just something that happens to other people, or only specifically to people you disagree with.
There's a middle ground to this discussion, people just hate standing in it. It's a middle ground where the DRM is restrictive and needlessly annoying, but not an analogue for the deaths of millions of people. It's a middle ground where the game isn't groundbreaking or revolutionary, but is in fact glossy and fun despite its warts. It's a middle ground where the servers have had some issues, but aside from launch day have been relatively stable, allowing many people...including myself...to play the game to completion without encountering any issues whatsoever. There are a lot of perfectly rational and compelling arguments on both sides of the ledger of this debate, and most of them are getting tossed aside in favor of petty insults and sweeping, grandiose generalizations. Presuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a dupe or a moron is a young man's vanity. If you want to lecture anyone to stop doing something, it should be that.
You more or less hit the spot with that OP.
The worst and I mean WORST thing is that leveling isn't exiting. I mean if you develop a fast paced Arpg and it isn't fun to gain levels you've done something horribly wrong! I know what they were trying to do with this system but it's not working for me. I don't feel invested in my character, he's just a guy I put items on. I couldn't give a fuck if he levels, dies, or finds a rare, since they are usually rubbish.
The items have no character of their own. They are too small, too frequent and the colors no longer match the excitement level they have in better designed games. You pick them up, you keep walking. They sit in your inventory, barely visible with no chance of you looking at the small icons and going 'Oh that looks neat!'. It used to be a big deal in D2 when you found a unique looking weapon, now I don't even look at the pictures anymore.
The story...good god it's just horrible. The 'Meet the Butcher!' line was enough to emotionally disconnect me from the rest of the game and I think that helped me stick with it. I also don really like that you can no longer do Boss runs. I don't know, I liked that.
I've played this game a good 40-50 hours and looking back, the only thing that kept me playing was the combat and coop. Anything else more or less drives me away from having more fun.
Overall it's such a shame because the Gameplay is engaging and roaming with your buddies while skyping is awesome as ever. It's a good game but it's not a game that earns this deep affection in your heart like a D2 did. The game just lacks character.
The worst and I mean WORST thing is that leveling isn't exiting. I mean if you develop a fast paced Arpg and it isn't fun to gain levels you've done something horribly wrong! I know what they were trying to do with this system but it's not working for me. I don't feel invested in my character, he's just a guy I put items on. I couldn't give a fuck if he levels, dies, or finds a rare, since they are usually rubbish.
The items have no character of their own. They are too small, too frequent and the colors no longer match the excitement level they have in better designed games. You pick them up, you keep walking. They sit in your inventory, barely visible with no chance of you looking at the small icons and going 'Oh that looks neat!'. It used to be a big deal in D2 when you found a unique looking weapon, now I don't even look at the pictures anymore.
The story...good god it's just horrible. The 'Meet the Butcher!' line was enough to emotionally disconnect me from the rest of the game and I think that helped me stick with it. I also don really like that you can no longer do Boss runs. I don't know, I liked that.
I've played this game a good 40-50 hours and looking back, the only thing that kept me playing was the combat and coop. Anything else more or less drives me away from having more fun.
Overall it's such a shame because the Gameplay is engaging and roaming with your buddies while skyping is awesome as ever. It's a good game but it's not a game that earns this deep affection in your heart like a D2 did. The game just lacks character.
This is another thing that bothered me a bit. The outdoor areas are not nearly random enough to my tastes (I'm ok with indoor areas). The events are a coll idea, but it is nice to explore a different map on various playthroughs.crazyarms33 said:
That said, once explored, the area should remain explored, specially due to the nature of the saving system.
But with the always-on thing I guess they were limiting what kind of personal information would be stored on their servers.
The game was released in his country, an official release. He has every right to expect it to function within his country.CardinalPiggles said:
This is kind of how I feel. I was interested until I saw the 'always online' thing, and how Blizzard was pretty open about the single-player (online) experience being lacklustre. To their credit, they didn't exactly *hide* the disadvantages they were (from my perspective) loading into their game. I am sorry for the people who were in it for the online play anyway, though, because they can legitimately expect Blizzard to actually provide and maintain the online service.Zenn3k said:
I'm not against the occasional mindless clicking down a corridor-fest, but I'm also not sure I want to pay NZ$100 for the privilege, especially given the other disadvantages. Mindless slaughter is cathartic, but honestly I have DW5 for that...or even TR: Guardian of Light if I want an isometric, PC version.