'Slut' Parade

[SillyBear]

This does not speak to every case regarding rape, nor does it speak to many cases regarding rape. I can't cite studies off of the top of my head like many other people do, but I have spent many long hours talking about this with my girlfriend, friends and family, not to mention the hours and hours I have spent talking about this in my Human Sexuality courses, and I know that what I am saying is true. Regardless of how you dress this up, you are blaming the victim for the rape.
Implying that the victim is in any way responsible for the rape is blaming.

Well, I'm glad all you've got is "you are blaming them because this is a rape case". You and I both know fully well, that I could have said the exact same thing, but replace the word "rape" with "murder" and you wouldn't have cared. It's all because of rape is our society's largest taboo.

By the way, I never said:

This does not speak to every case regarding rape, nor does it speak to many cases regarding rape.

That was the case.

Again, prove that the way a woman dresses is a causal factor in a rape case.

Never said it did sonny. You made that part up. You made a post implying that the way someone dresses is always 100% irrelevant. I don't agree with that, I think the way you dress is a huge factor into how people judge you and act towards you.

 

[Spaggiari]

Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?

Nope, I don't see why it should be socially acceptable for men to sleep around, yet if a women does they're a "slut" or a "slag".

Um, did you read the article? It is about rape, not sleeping around......[/quote]

Um, did you read the article? It's not just about rape, it's also about exactly what JoJoDeathHunter mentioned. Here's an excerpt taken straight out of there which is an exact echo of what JoJo said.

"Many women argue that the very word slut is an embodiment of the double standards employed when discussing the sexual appetites of women and men. Women are described as sluts, while men are often referred in a less derogatory light as "studs" or a "ladies man"."

 

[UFOROMANTIC]

This does not speak to every case regarding rape, nor does it speak to many cases regarding rape. I can't cite studies off of the top of my head like many other people do, but I have spent many long hours talking about this with my girlfriend, friends and family, not to mention the hours and hours I have spent talking about this in my Human Sexuality courses, and I know that what I am saying is true. Regardless of how you dress this up, you are blaming the victim for the rape.
Implying that the victim is in any way responsible for the rape is blaming.

Well, I'm glad all you've got is "you are blaming them because this is a rape case". You and I both know fully well, that I could have said the exact same thing, but replace the word "rape" with "murder" and you wouldn't have cared. It's all because of rape is our society's largest taboo.

By the way, I never said:

This does not speak to every case regarding rape, nor does it speak to many cases regarding rape.

That was the case.

Rape and murder are separate crimes, but I would feel just as upset if this was concerning murder. Your assuming that I would not care if this was concerning murder rather than rape was a huge and deeply offensive oversight. I am a sensitive human being with a heart as deep as the ocean and as wide as the sky.
There is a horrible tendancy in American culture to blame the victim for their victimhood in many cases, rape being one of more endemic of them. Rape is ONE of our societies biggest taboos (not necessarily the biggest) and for damn good reason.

 

[SillyBear]

Rape and murder are separate crimes, but I would feel just as upset if this was concerning murder. Your assuming that I would not care if this was concerning murder rather than rape was a huge and deeply offensive oversight. I am a sensitive human being with a heart as deep as the ocean and as wide as the sky.
There is a horrible tendancy in American culture to blame the victim for their victimhood in many cases, rape being one of more endemic of them. Rape is ONE of our societies biggest taboos (not necessarily the biggest) and for damn good reason.

But you won't admit that there can be many variables that create a situation. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm speaking in facts. Just like my analogy with the person being pushed into the ocean, he isn't to blame for being pushed, but if he didn't stand so close to the edge it wouldn't have happened. That does not = blame. Blame has negative connotations. The person who pushed him hold the responsibility for the fact - but you could still call the person standing so close to the edge "careless".

And that's how I feel about some rape cases. I have a friend who was raped and as much as I hate to say it, I wasn't surprised. She'd go out to bars alone (yes, alone), brought men she barely knew home with her and then one day she was raped. That is naivety. That is carelessness. It isn't blame. You are the person who is making that jump to blame, not me.

My whole point in talking about this is trying to avoid exactly what you are doing. We should be able to have an open forum on this. We should be able to let police tell people every single way how to minimise the chances or rape. We should be able to say to girls, like my friend, "STOP! You are going to get hurt." Instead, as soon as someone tries they are hit with arguments like "you are blaming them!" or "not EVERY rape is like that!" or "you are sexist!", or "I have a right to do this!" and so on and so forth. It frustrates me, that's all. I think lots of incidents could be prevented if more people were realistic about situations. You can't go around doing whatever the fuck you please in this World. At some stage, someone is going to take advantage of it - especially in the neighbourhood I live in.

I'm getting really really tired of trying to defend my motives here, I don't feel like anyone has really even read what I'm typing - instead I feel like people are jumping to conclusions and suggesting things I would never dream to suggest. I'm done with this particular issue!

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

This is attention seeking to an unprecedented level.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Does the open expression of women's sexuality make you feel uncomfortable?

Your right, why not have some paedophiles lining up to parade as they too need to be given tolerance as well as all those folk who sleep with animals.


Being a slut is not normal, nor healthy, and I have no idea how they can try to justify it. Oh wait, they can not because they are insecure, which is the whole reason why they are a slut in the first place.

Um, did you read the article? It's not just about rape, it's also about exactly what JoJoDeathHunter mentioned. Here's an excerpt taken straight out of there which is an exact echo of what JoJo said.

"Many women argue that the very word slut is an embodiment of the double standards employed when discussing the sexual appetites of women and men. Women are described as sluts, while men are often referred in a less derogatory light as "studs" or a "ladies man"."

That shows you how ill informed and naive the women who have organised this event are as that is an urban myth/in joke guys have. Guys who sleep about normally don't have a good reputation eg. being a 'player' and so on. Women don't like that and well, guys don;t care to much as it is not our problem.
Also, women did not evolve to want to or be able to sleep about (mentally), and men did, so I think these women need to go back to school before trying to preach what should be accepted.

 

[powell86]

You're a realist huh?
Then you acknowledge that the way a woman dresses is not a factor in rape cases?

dude... read my 2nd post which is just above yours.
I did mention that perhaps clothes may not be a major factor. Anyway in all scenario it's not like 1 issue that triggered it, it's always a combination of factors. And sadly, certain men do view that women who dress suggestively is an indication that she'll be an easy woman. Not all rape cases happened along the street where a random stranger decided to pull a woman into a dark alley.

p.s.
You seem to haf a very combative nature in your choice of words in this discussion as evident from your other posts.

Chill man.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

I cannot possibly believe that those supporting the OP's views aren't trolling, so: job well done. Great troll effort.

 

[cobra_ky]

People can dress however they damn well please, freedom of expression and all that.

No one is even questioning that. This is about what should happen when people respond violently to freedom of expression. Lots of people do, especially in lower socioeconomic areas.

Looking at the thread, there are two arguments here.

Idealist: "I know rape is happening but we have to keep expressing the importance of acceptance and freedom of expression. It doesn't matter if girls are targeted whilst wearing certain types of clothing, they have a right to wear it and we should solely concentrate on the rapist, not the victim."

Realist: "Rape happens. It is always going to happen and it always will happen so the best plan is to educate people on how best to avoid it. If that means urging girls to wear less revealing clothing in dangerous areas, then so be it. People's perception of other people counts for a lot. Like it or not, it's the world we live in."

here's the argument you missed: "Revealing clothing is not a significant factor in the vast majority of rape cases."

According to this police officer, you're wrong. Police officers should have the right to investigate and educate the public on how best to avoid rapes. It doesn't matter if we agree with them or not we grant them power to do this. I don't think the issue is simply about clothing though, and I never said it was. Most of it comes down to the actual girl herself, and whether or not she has common sense, but that all rolls into one. Common sense is the best defense against most rapes, and dressing with your ass showing in a dangerous area is not showing much common sense. Like I said above, the idealists will say "who cares they have a right to" and the realists will say "this will cause them to attract unneeded attention".

Either way, you are looking at the issue too simply. This debate transcends the clothing issue and comments on what I was talking about above.

The police officer is full of crap. he doesn't have the authority to misinform the public with bad advice. your argument isn't a "realist" one because it doesn't reflect reality. Pouring maple syrup on your head doesn't display a whole lot of common sense, but it has shit all to do with how likely you are to be raped.

the thing about common sense is that it's surprisingly uncommon and a lot of it doesn't make sense. if there are specific actions or behaviors that directly increase the probability of a rape occurring, then educate the public on those. tell people not to get drunk and pass out, or go home with random people. don't give them utterly irrelevant advice that isn't going to help.

Oh I'm sorry are you saying that because I wasn't beaten that I have no right to complain? Ever heard on mental abuse? I had absolute strangers, people I had have never seen in my life, come up to my face and call me a pathetic emo loser and people walked around me rather than past me like I had a disease. I heard multiple rumours about me and none were pretty. I was an outsider the whole time and you have no idea what that did to my self esteem. Emo may not be a label in your eyes but that doesn't mean I didn't go through a rough time. And maybe you completely missed the point where I said OR THEY COULD STOP CARING WHAT OTHERS THINK.

it doesn't sound like you could stop caring so easily. it sounds like being labeled the way you were was incredibly damaging to your self-esteem.

 

[Jegsimmons]

Thousands of women in the US and Canada have marched in response to a Toronto police officer's comment that women should try not to dress like "sluts" to avoid being raped or victimised.

You know there are some sex offenders who went to watch that march just waiting for one to turn into an alley.

Seriously i think these women aren't using their brains at all.

 

[Astoria]

Oh I'm sorry are you saying that because I wasn't beaten that I have no right to complain? Ever heard on mental abuse? I had absolute strangers, people I had have never seen in my life, come up to my face and call me a pathetic emo loser and people walked around me rather than past me like I had a disease. I heard multiple rumours about me and none were pretty. I was an outsider the whole time and you have no idea what that did to my self esteem. Emo may not be a label in your eyes but that doesn't mean I didn't go through a rough time. And maybe you completely missed the point where I said OR THEY COULD STOP CARING WHAT OTHERS THINK.

it doesn't sound like you could stop caring so easily. it sounds like being labeled the way you were was incredibly damaging to your self-esteem.

I never said it would be easy. It's not but you do get to a point where you just say 'fuck it' and don't care anymore and since I did that I have felt a lot better about myself. All I'm saying is that people won't change, they're always going to label, so really the only choices they have is stop being like they are or learn not to care.

 

[cobra_ky]

Does the open expression of women's sexuality make you feel uncomfortable?

Your right, why not have some paedophiles lining up to parade as they too need to be given tolerance as well as all those folk who sleep with animals.


Being a slut is not normal, nor healthy, and I have no idea how they can try to justify it. Oh wait, they can not because they are insecure, which is the whole reason why they are a slut in the first place.

you're comparing women who enjoy sex with pedophilia and bestiality. just wanted to state that for the record.

Um, did you read the article? It's not just about rape, it's also about exactly what JoJoDeathHunter mentioned. Here's an excerpt taken straight out of there which is an exact echo of what JoJo said.

"Many women argue that the very word slut is an embodiment of the double standards employed when discussing the sexual appetites of women and men. Women are described as sluts, while men are often referred in a less derogatory light as "studs" or a "ladies man"."

That shows you how ill informed and naive the women who have organised this event are as that is an urban myth/in joke guys have. Guys who sleep about normally don't have a good reputation eg. being a 'player' and so on. Women don't like that and well, guys don;t care to much as it is not our problem.

guys don't care if other guys sleep around, but women who sleep around are abnormal, unhealthy, and insecure. that sounds like a double standard to me.

Also, women did not evolve to want to or be able to sleep about (mentally), and men did, so I think these women need to go back to school before trying to preach what should be accepted.

maybe you should support your specious claim about the evolutionary psychology of women first.

 

[cobra_ky]

I never said it would be easy. It's not but you do get to a point where you just say 'fuck it' and don't care anymore and since I did that I have felt a lot better about myself. All I'm saying is that people won't change, they're always going to label, so really the only choices they have is stop being like they are or learn not to care.

I respectfully disagree. People can and do change, and while we can't eliminate labeling, we can reduce it and the effect it has on society. That's what this walk is about: calling attention to the negative effects the word 'slut' has on people and mitigating them.

 

[int boom]

In brief it's more

"Just because I look hungry doesn't mean I want random people shoving sausages down my throat".

Best. Summary. Ever. I'm going to use that one in future.

A summary of the average joe's reaction to superficial appearances:

Opposite gender attraction (assuming negative response): derision/rape.
Unacceptable haircut: derision/assault.
Different language speaker: insult in language they can't understand.
More successful: bone their significant other.
Same gender attraction: derision/rape.
Open window: steal television.
Wearing a hat: derision/rape.

I do exaggerate, but the problem isn't the fact that people should be able to wear whatever they want but can't for fear of a negative response, it's the fact that aggression and the appearance of aggression is worshipped above all else in most cultures.

Until society finds a positive way to channel the undercurrent of aggression possessed by every human being with the desire to mate then opportunistic victimisation will always occur, whatever form it takes.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Does the open expression of women's sexuality make you feel uncomfortable?

Your right, why not have some paedophiles lining up to parade as they too need to be given tolerance as well as all those folk who sleep with animals.


Being a slut is not normal, nor healthy, and I have no idea how they can try to justify it. Oh wait, they can not because they are insecure, which is the whole reason why they are a slut in the first place.

you're comparing women who enjoy sex with pedophilia and bestiality. just wanted to state that for the record.

Um, did you read the article? It's not just about rape, it's also about exactly what JoJoDeathHunter mentioned. Here's an excerpt taken straight out of there which is an exact echo of what JoJo said.

"Many women argue that the very word slut is an embodiment of the double standards employed when discussing the sexual appetites of women and men. Women are described as sluts, while men are often referred in a less derogatory light as "studs" or a "ladies man"."

That shows you how ill informed and naive the women who have organised this event are as that is an urban myth/in joke guys have. Guys who sleep about normally don't have a good reputation eg. being a 'player' and so on. Women don't like that and well, guys don;t care to much as it is not our problem.

guys don't care if other guys sleep around, but women who sleep around are abnormal, unhealthy, and insecure. that sounds like a double standard to me.

Also, women did not evolve to want to or be able to sleep about (mentally), and men did, so I think these women need to go back to school before trying to preach what should be accepted.

maybe you should support your specious claim about the evolutionary psychology of women first.

Well that is nature for you. Women get lumped with a kid so it is not in their interest to go about getting pregnant and having no man around. Yes, life is different now but evolution takes a while to catch up.

 

[cobra_ky]

Well that is nature for you. Women get lumped with a kid so it is not in their interest to go about getting pregnant and having no man around. Yes, life is different now but evolution takes a while to catch up.

right. life changed, now we have effective means of birth control. evolution is still lagging behind, so it is of limited relevance here.

 

[saruman31]

Does the open expression of women's sexuality make you feel uncomfortable?

Your right, why not have some paedophiles lining up to parade as they too need to be given tolerance as well as all those folk who sleep with animals.


Being a slut is not normal, nor healthy, and I have no idea how they can try to justify it. Oh wait, they can not because they are insecure, which is the whole reason why they are a slut in the first place.

you're comparing women who enjoy sex with pedophilia and bestiality. just wanted to state that for the record.

Um, did you read the article? It's not just about rape, it's also about exactly what JoJoDeathHunter mentioned. Here's an excerpt taken straight out of there which is an exact echo of what JoJo said.

"Many women argue that the very word slut is an embodiment of the double standards employed when discussing the sexual appetites of women and men. Women are described as sluts, while men are often referred in a less derogatory light as "studs" or a "ladies man"."

That shows you how ill informed and naive the women who have organised this event are as that is an urban myth/in joke guys have. Guys who sleep about normally don't have a good reputation eg. being a 'player' and so on. Women don't like that and well, guys don;t care to much as it is not our problem.

guys don't care if other guys sleep around, but women who sleep around are abnormal, unhealthy, and insecure. that sounds like a double standard to me.

Also, women did not evolve to want to or be able to sleep about (mentally), and men did, so I think these women need to go back to school before trying to preach what should be accepted.

maybe you should support your specious claim about the evolutionary psychology of women first.

Well that is nature for you. Women get lumped with a kid so it is not in their interest to go about getting pregnant and having no man around. Yes, life is different now but evolution takes a while to catch up.

That`s exactly why men must evolve and stop fearing women sexuality. I guess this double standard will take some time to disappear.

 

[Getatron]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13333013

So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?

Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?

So, uh, you're kidding me, right?

See, I don't think they'd rather protest than avoid being raped, but the thing is, if guys sleep with lots of people (and, hell, it's EXPECTED of them), they're studs, manly and so on and so forth.

If women sleep with lots of people, they're sluts. See how that adds up? See the logic in it?

'Cause I don't. So, my guess is that they're showing their discontentment with the situation by, y'know, protesting against the illogicalness of it all. (Gee, I'm inventing words wildly, am I not.) They probably like sleeping with people, but dislike being called sluts 'cause, frankly, they just get laid more often than the others. So: no, there's nothing hedonistic with this, truly. What's hedonistic with sex? Without sex, you wouldn't exist, and life would probably be a damn sight slower and more boring as well.

Oh, and if ANYONE dares make the master key vs. bad lock-metaphor, I will hunt you down, I will proceed to tie you to a chair, I will fit you with a ball gag, and then I will proceed to tell you in just how many ways you are wrong about it, how much that metaphor sucks, and then you will be released. No violence, honest.

 

[JonnWood]

So your trolling since thats an admission of deliberately inflaming an argument by omission ?

No, I've been basing a few minor claims on assumptions from evidence produced and wondering if anyone would call me on them. Minor, mind you, not the entire argument.