'Slut' Parade

[Android2137]

A guy is walking through a rough neighbourhood waving a wad of cash around, and he gets mugged.
Now, obviously the one who mugged the guy is in the wrong 100%. That was illegal, and he should be punished.
And the guy should have the right to wave around money as much as he wants without fear of being attacked and robbed. But it's a naive and dangerous game to play. Ideally, I should be able to leave my doors unlocked, my keys in my car, and my money on my counter. But it's asking for trouble if I do any of those things.

Again, not my fault if someone robs me. I have the right to leave my door unlocked, my money out, and my keys in my car. But, at the risk of sounding redundant, it's dangerously naive to do any of those things.

Ahh thank you. I was having trouble figuring out how to articulate my opinion on this and you've provided it for me.

 

[LiquidGrape]

There's a lot of victim blaming and willful ignorance about in this thread.
To those concerned, thank you for making me taste my dinner again.

That anyone can seriously argue that the victim of rape should be held accountable for a reprehensible crime they have suffered simply due to the way they chose to dress is beyond me.
I don't know on what kind of software you people are operating, and I'm not sure I want to know.

There's this thing called "empathy".
You should try it.
Please try it.

 

[Biodeamon]

Oh look another joyus hate thread! yaaaaaaaaayyyyy.

 

[Caligulove]

I think the point of the campaign is to show that they're not sluts, but that the officer in question who made the comment thought the way they dressed was slutty- therefore the campaign is for all women who have been sexually abused, or women who might dress well, but hardly slutty to go out and express how "apparently this is considered slutty"

Im sure there are women that would be considered sluts in the mix there as well, but it's supposed to be about protesting against an atmosphere of blaming the victim. Even if a girl were a 'slut' and dressed provocatively, if they say "no" and someone rapes them it is solely the fault of the sick human being that raped them. The argument of "they were asking for it/bound to happen when dressed like that" doesn't help anything and doesn't change the fact that they were raped or somehow make it less of a crime or a horrible thing to do to another human being. For whatever reason a woman might dress provocatively, it's never their fault for being raped. It's right in the definition- forcible and without consent.

 

[amucha98]

.

 

[btenkink]

The title is Misleading, READ THE ARTICLE!

It's an Anti-Rape protest (yeah important but *yawn* cliche).

Such an article would not have gotten the attention it has (going on 6 pages of comments) if it had an accurate title. The issue has been beaten to death already (especially in the wake of Woman's Day).

Though me posting here just shows the issue has found interesting ways to get attention.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Incidentally, do any of you realize how incredibly offensive it is to compare a woman's body to a phone or a wad of cash?

I'm guessing not.

So much for post-patriarchy, huh lads?

 

[silasbufu]

I'm not sure most men that rape do it just because they want to..It's something more psychologically complicated I would say, and women that dress like sluts fuel these issues, the man feeling teased and somehow inferior and provoked, thus resorting to this.

That's my opinion but I'm just saying what comes to mind, might be totally wrong.

 

[Hawkmoon269]

First off, protesting against the idea that dressing provocatively means a woman can be blamed for getting raped? Right on.

Second, protesting a word that means that its wrong for women to have sex on their own terms? Ditto. I can't think of a reason why women shouldn't have every sexual freedom that men do.

These women have got it right.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Sigh..

Since a very close friend of mine is involved in organizing one of these. You've totally missed the point, along with most of the people on this thread.

1) It is not advocating sexual promiscuity
2) It is not advocating particular modes of dress
3) It is not advocating anything

It is about the following:

1) That women are held to higher standards of 'respectability' than men.
2) That female sexuality is subject to far more control than male sexuality.
3) That this higher standard functions as both a motive and a mitigating factor in rape cases.

With the ultimate point being that:

Women should not have to adhere to higher standards of behaviour or risk being raped.

Is that clear now?

Also, if you want to me to chart the sad and depressing history of abuses against sexually 'active' women, I'll do it, but I imagine I don't even need to. Sure, there's an element of that in there too, and yes the identity politics of claiming pejorative terms is always difficult, but it can be highly effective (see Queer).

The point is not that women want to be 'sluts'. The point is that the word slut is inherently misogynist and actually describes perfect acceptable behaviours which any fair society should have come to terms with a long time ago.

This is the thing.
It is an urban myth that men who sleep around are heroes etc as most people normally see them as douches, look at Jersey shore for example.
On top of this, the male and female brain differ greatly when it comes to sex. Men are happier to sleep about due to not being tied down by any factors, where as women are not due to being lumped with a kid for 9 months and needing a man to help them. This is all due to our instincts and seeing that we are still animals, we still go by them, thus to try to change this is only going to end in disaster/IS ending in disaster. Look at female rates of depression in the West. It has significantly increased since women have tried to be men (not attain equal rights, but to try to be men in every possible way)

 

[googleback]

NOT REALLY much to actually PROTEST here is there..?

Go bother the Westboro Baptist Church please! THAT'S something we can all enjoy!

 

[beema]

Calling yourself a "slut" and marching around acting like a slut doesn't help anyone, especially the people marching.

Yeah, now they just look like sluts AND idiots.

People are free to wear what they want, but I think people are free to respond to that attire however they want as well (excluding criminal acts, of course). If they don't want pervs lusting after them wherever they go, then dress different. It's simple. Pervs are going to be out there no matter what, unfortunately.

Dressing slutty doesn't excuse rape, whatsoever, though.
Does it goad rapists further though? Maybe. I was under the impression that a lot of rapists commit it for entirely different reasons besides immediate sexual desires.
If, however, we are talking about date-rape, that's a different story. I completely believe dressing/behaving like a slut spurs on date-rapists. I hate to make a distinction, as if one type of rape is better, but they definitely occur very differently.

 

[Steppin Razor]

Men get raped too, yehknow.

They wouldn't if they stopped dressing so slutty. Silly men wanting to wear whatever they want.

On topic
I agree with them, but considering that society at large still seems to suffer from this idea that women should dress and act certain ways, I can't help but feel that they have damaged their cause by going about it this way and that most people are just going to brush this off as them being dirty sluts not worth listening to :/

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

"Don't tell us how to dress, tell men not to rape"

Far as I know, the law already has.

This isn't about law. This is about culture.

Thousands of women in the US and Canada have marched in response to a Toronto police officer's comment that women should try not to dress like "sluts" to avoid being raped or victimised.

Yes it is. Police Officers enforce the law. They aren't bound by culture.

If you are giving the power of culture to one group of people, then you have to give them the law to enforce it. As has been said, rapists target the vulnerable members of society.

About Victims

44% of victims are under age 18
80% are under age 30
60% of sexual assaults are not reported to the police
Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim

It's very much about the law. And vulnerable people not feeling able to come forward to the people given charge to enforce the laws, that are already there in the case of male/female rape, but not for m/m, f/f or f/m.

3 IN 20 MEN ARE AFFECTED BY SEXUAL VIOLENCE

If you are acting as a slut (male/female) then you are increasing your chance exponentially of coming across someone with STIs or violent tendencies.

Sluts also should be safe from those that spread STIs. They aren't. That's nothing to do with culture.

If you honestly wish to allow any person to multiple sexual partners, then you have to have a system where both parties can feel safe. This is upheld by law.

If you wish to change culture, then you need to address the basis behind it, which is control over the victim. And that would require a system far more draconian than the one we have now.

We all wish to live in the land of "Do as thou will", but some people will always take that as "Do unto others what has been done to us". And that often includes violence.

Especially when we have a culture that glamorizes violence as a means to achieve.

 

[albinoterrorist]

There's a lot of victim blaming and willful ignorance about in this thread.
To those concerned, thank you for making me taste my dinner again.

That anyone can seriously argue that the victim of rape should be held accountable for a reprehensible crime they have suffered simply due to the way they chose to dress is beyond me.
I don't know on what kind of software you people are operating, and I'm not sure I want to know.

There's this thing called "empathy".
You should try it.
Please try it.

We don't believe they are accountable. Merely that their choices are clearly not helping.

To those saying the Government should tell people "not to rape" - They do.
It's called the law.
The entire problem is those individuals who choose to exist outside the law, for whatever reason.
Reminding them of their obligations is hardly going to turn them back.

As for teaching women self-defense - They do.
Anyone can happily join a martial arts or fighting club, but very few bother.
Sure, we can teach them how to use pepperspray and provide it.. But what happens when that is no longer a suitable deterrent?
Do we give them heavier equipment? If so, how do we prevent certain individuals from choosing to misuse it?
Thoughtless arming of the populace was, after all, how this whole Middle Eastern fiasco started..

So - What options are really left? I'll tell you - ask the women nicely to dress more appropriately. It won't work in the majority of cases, and even in the ones where it would, it'll likely be ignored (much like the rapists ignoring the law), but it's the best they can honestly do with such a limited playing hand.

As for empathy.. Well, while it can be a very nice trick, and you do appreciate the effort he takes, once a fire-eater burns his mouth, you can't help but feel rather.. Half-hearted with your sympathy.
After all, he choose to take the risk.

 

[LordFisheh]

You people are missing the point! Being proud of sexuality is wrong, because it just is... the value in ingrained in our society (from the Church, no less), and therefore has absolute moral authority. Shame upon the fornicators!

/sarcasm off

 

[Cat of Doom]

Well I cant say I dont take advantage of the pretty ones.

 

[Terminal Blue]

It is an urban myth that men who sleep around are heroes etc as most people normally see them as douches, look at Jersey shore for example.

Specific examples don't prove very much, think more broadly. For one, do you think the guys you're referring to are hated because they get a lot of tail?

There's also a difference between being liked and being respected. For men, fucking a lot is generally inherently respectable, even if you don't like or respect the person who does it.

Why does the word slut exist as a gendered term in the first place.

On top of this, the male and female brain differ greatly when it comes to sex. Men are happier to sleep about due to not being tied down by any factors, where as women are not due to being lumped with a kid for 9 months and needing a man to help them.

Have you heard of contraception?

Also.. have you seen this research? To the extent that it exists, it's pretty bullshit. Anyone claiming to be able to link neurological 'sexual difference' to specific behaviours is just guessing through superficial observation at present. We don't know enough about neurology to make those claims without factoring in cultural influence.

This is all due to our instincts and seeing that we are still animals, we still go by them, thus to try to change this is only going to end in disaster/IS ending in disaster.

That's a theory based on superficial observation of behavioural trends, and it's generally not very well substantiated and doesn't link in to any observation in any field other than evolutionary psychology.

Look at female rates of depression in the West. It has significantly increased since women have tried to be men (not attain equal rights, but to try to be men in every possible way)

Er... No..

Go and read Freud's original case notes on hysteria. I think you'll find women were pretty fucked up back when they weren't 'trying to be men'.

Also, rates of depression are based on diagnosis. Have you considered that the much higher male suicide rate might be based on undiagnosed depression? Have you factored in the general truism than men don't tend to talk about or articulate their feelings and considered how that might affect reporting rates for depression?

Statistics can be very easy to misconstrue.

 

[tigermilk]

I think you've totally missed the point of the article, I support them on this. They should be able to choose how they dress without the worry of being raped.

Quoted in the name of truth (nothing else to add, quoted post covers it all).

 

[Steppin Razor]

This is the thing.
It is an urban myth that men who sleep around are heroes etc as most people normally see them as douches, look at Jersey shore for example.
On top of this, the male and female brain differ greatly when it comes to sex. Men are happier to sleep about due to not being tied down by any factors, where as women are not due to being lumped with a kid for 9 months and needing a man to help them. This is all due to our instincts and seeing that we are still animals, we still go by them, thus to try to change this is only going to end in disaster/IS ending in disaster. Look at female rates of depression in the West. It has significantly increased since women have tried to be men (not attain equal rights, but to try to be men in every possible way)

/facedesk

Let me repeat myself here in the chance that I can adequately convey how stupid I consider this post.

/facedesk
/facedesk
[HEADING=1]/facedesk[/HEADING]

There truly is no hope for you if you believe something as moronic as what you just said.