'Slut' Parade

[Ladette]

There are many things I could say in response to this thread, but I won't out of fear of suspension.

1. Half the people posting in the thread didn't read the goddamn article.
2. This reeks of blaming the victim.
3. The officer who made that comment should be reprimanded, for his stupidity if nothing else.
4. lolDouble Standards

 

[jboking]

If the victim could have taken action to avoid the incident then they share part of the responsibility for what happens to them.

Then, quite literally, any victim ever is now forced to share in the responsibility for what happens to them. We can prove that in any crime if anyone had chosen to do something else their incident could have been prevented. This logic, either way, is blaming the victim. You do not take liberties away in order to ensure safety. You find ways to ensure safety while allowing liberties, no matter what they are.


There is a quote from Mr. Franklin that could be thrown up here too, but that seems too cliche.

I also think that it may not just be rape they are talking about, but general harassment that could turn into violence and/or rape because last time I checked, women who were sensible did not get raped (sensible being: dressing normally, going in groups etc).

You aren't aware of how often rape occurs and the expanse of people it occurs to, are you? It's not just the club girls that get raped, and sensible women get raped all the damn time. It doesn't matter what you are wearing, it matters how the would be rapist feels about you. More often than not, the rapist knows the victim and has at least thought about it hypothetically before-hand.


Honestly, that statement alone makes me realize you are so oblivious on the subject that I shouldn't be too concerned with continuing this conversation with you.

Also

last time I checked, women who were sensible did not get raped (sensible being: dressing normally, going in groups etc).

I'm now not even sure that you're not trolling. @_@ The majority of rape happens to people who know the rapist, the majority of rape happens to people who aren't dressed 'sluttily', some rape happens to the elderly, for crying out loud, are you saying those OAPs must have been wearing miniskirts and getting drunk at nightclubs?

Just a quick Google search for statistics brought up:

Utah State University Sexual Assault and Anti Violence Information

Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing

- A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only
4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part
of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple
as a glance).

- Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.

- Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties,
hardly provocative dressers.

Before someone asks me or you, link on the source.

 

[Les Awesome]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nA8t7ZFEOBI/Sb-nZsK-t8I/AAAAAAAAAVM/qhRpJdbHulo/s400/mustache-_0006_ned-flanders.jpg
Thou shalt not give in to temptation!

heh heh NICE

 

[Verlander]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13333013

So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?

Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?

You missed the point by a fucking lightyear. A police officer in New Zeland or Australia said that women were getting raped and abused because they dress like sluts. Which is to say, he was blaming women for being raped. The slut parade is seizing on this ignorance, and is marching throughout towns to raise awareness over domestic abuse. Simple.

 

[Luke Cartner]

Umm find warped that poster condones comments that imply that the rape victims provoke their attack by the clothing or behavior..

And why is considered 'hedonistic' for women to have health sexual appetites (and not expect to be raped for them; while it is considered normal for men?

Seriously the officer in question should condemn the rapists not the victims.

 

[Blayze2k]

Better advice: Some things ARE personal.
So watch your goddamn mouth.

Watch out everyone, Internet Tough Guy is here to beat you into line.

-__-'
I never threatened anyone.
I am suggesting that running one's mouth about things,
Tends to lead to offending people.
Because sometimes people have a personal stake in the thing you are running your mouth about.

Forget the rape issue, dressing like a slut is nothing to advocate for in the first place.

Why not?

 

[Jimbo1212]

But the principle is the same. Why was someone taking the risk in being mugged by walking with their wallet exposed? The same goes for sluts. Why are you dressed like that and taking an unnecessary risk? Yes, rape is worse, so surely that means women should grasp onto any advice given to them on how to avoid it rather then act like spoilt kids and do the opposite.

Yes, the principle is the same, and the thief still shouldn't have taken the wallet. Perhaps it was sticking out of the pocket because the trousers they were wearing that day were a bit tight. It was a hot day so they didn't have a jacket on. They had reasons for that wallet being exposed, they weren't just going WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO HIDE MY WALLET, just like girls who dress up tarty to pull men (OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING) have reasons to do so.
If police started accusing people who'd been burgled or mugged of asking for it and not convicting people of those crimes because the victim hadn't been cautious enough, I'll bet people would be up in arms about that, too.

Exactly this. If Jews are being murdered in your country, you don't tell them that they're being too Jewish. That's not the problem you have.

But that is not their choice is it? Being a slut is a choice, and a one that is already seen as bad before you bring the rape issue into it.

Religion isn't a choice? Well you can argue that Jewishness is almost a race, but what if the same thing were happening with Muslims? Or what about that goth couple that got attacked in Britain a few years ago for being goths, the girl died, was it their fault for being goths? Goths have a bad name also, Jews and Muslims are seen as being bad by an unfortunately large amount of people, you may think being a slut is bad but isn't it just another opinion backed up by a long held social stigma?

Actually there were many ad campaigns telling people not to walk with their phones on display as theft had shot up.
And do you know what happened?
People listened, put their phones away, and theft went down.

But for some reason as soon as you point to a gender then you need a parade and to start screaming about rights.

As for choice and avoidance, how many blacks live in racist neighborhoods? None, because no one is that stupid and realises they are only making trouble for themselves. Now of course this is different if racists came into their homes, but house invasion with rape is a very different to rape on a night out.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

They got my full support. I really get annoyed by those dumbfucks that are on the one hand bragging about their "adventures" and on the other call women that (ah fuck those "s) like to have sex outside of a relationship. I am not sure if they are as dumb as those idiots calling their exs (exes?) ugly stupid whores ( i just wanna slap those fuckers and ask em why they started a relationship with someone ugly and stupid).
Women have the right to dress as they want, act as they want, fuck who they want as much as every other human being.
Thats why certain (sub)cultures or groups still have to avoid the majority of people, dont grant others access to their events and have to act in ways that seem elitist, arrogant or unfriendly towards others.Its no fun to be stared at like a damn animal in a zoo.

 

[Sparrow]

I think you've totally missed the point of the article, I support them on this. They should be able to choose how they dress without the worry of being raped.

On one hand, I agree. Rape is obviously a bad thing and nobody deserves such a fate, regardless of what they've done. On the other hand, I disagree. Dressing like an absolute whore isn't going to help matters. Not only that, but it's a bad example for children. If little Sally sees mummy dressing like a hoe-bag, she'll think that's a dandy thing for her to do too!

 

[Nieroshai]

I strongly believe rape is wrong no matter how someone dresses. But this is not how to say it. In fact, this may be saying "it's not rape because we wanted it" accidentally.

 

[Sethzard]

I think you've totally missed the point of the article, I support them on this. They should be able to choose how they dress without the worry of being raped.

On one hand, I agree. Rape is obviously a bad thing and nobody deserves such a fate, regardless of what they've done. On the other hand, I disagree. Dressing like an absolute whore isn't going to help matters. Not only that, but it's a bad example for children. If little Sally sees mummy dressing like a hoe-bag, she'll think that's a dandy thing for her to do too!

Mothers are a whole other kettle of fish. They need to set an example 20 somethings should be able to dress however the fuck they want.
However they dress it's not their fault, it might be a good idea, but they don't deserve blame and people shouldn't put any on them.

 

[Gigano]

...

So it is fine to be a murderer and/or a pedophile with your logic?

...Because clearly dressing provocatively falls in the same category as those.

Both of those crimes inflict grave physical harm on others. I'd have thought the difference so obvious that it needn't be mentioned, but apparently I was mistaken.

I think it is about time someone condemns these women for dressing like that as it is not acceptable and the majority of the world would agree with me on that point.

I don't. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle]

On the contrary, I condemn those who would condemn such harmless plurality, based in their own petty offence and puritanical lust[footnote]...an oxymoron?[/footnote] for telling others how to live their life.

...and the majority of the world is made up of backwards dictatorships with little regard for human rights. Not the best bedfellows in ethical matters, I'd choose these "sluts" over them any day in that bed (too).

The problem with rape is you can not really do anything until after it has happened. This is why the police are advocating taking preventative measures, but heck, if they want to spit the dummy out of the pram then so be it, just don't come crying to the police when shit hits the fan.

Well, I think that if a sexual offence has occurred, then coming to the police is probably the appropriate thing to do. It's not really like "she looked hot" is much of a mitigating circumstance in court.

 

[KwaggaDan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13333013

So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?

Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?

I'm singing with the choir on this one, but the point is these woman want to dress in a certain way, even if the patriarchal male society decries their dress or general sexual promiscuity as "slutty."

That's their point. Who says they are slutty?

 

[gazumped]

Actually there were many ad campaigns telling people not to walk with their phones on display as theft had shot up.
And do you know what happened?
People listened, put their phones away, and theft went down.

But for some reason as soon as you point to a gender then you need a parade and to start screaming about rights.

As for choice and avoidance, how many blacks live in racist neighborhoods? None, because no one is that stupid and realises they are only making trouble for themselves. Now of course this is different if racists came into their homes, but house invasion with rape is a very different to rape on a night out.

Men get raped too, yehknow.

There are ad campaigns telling people not to walk with their phones on display, there are also ad campaigns telling women not to get unlicenced minicabs because they may get raped, no one's had a problem with those adverts. That's because the minicab adverts don't say "don't be slutty" and getting into a cab doesn't lead to a jury finding a defendant not guilty based on an outdated judgement about sexuality and modesty. (Gawd, if we were in the Victorian times this conversation would be based on whether women are stupid for wearing trousers or showing their ankles.)

And... uh... I live in quite a racist part of town and about half of the population here are black. I think a lot of black people aren't going to be scared away by some ignorant white folk.

 

[Discord]

At first this seems like one of those issues where it would be besat to "Keep a 20 Foot Pole out and avoid" not because of the issue itself but because of the storm of opinions and arguments that follow it. But thinking on this and Thinking back to when I was in High School (Kinda Old, I Am) There was a few girls labeled as Loose, Whores, Sluts and more. The definition seem to change with the amount of sexual acts or how long between acts. But when I was younger Being Labeled a Slut (Or any variation) WAS A BAD THING and only the most care free of girls would be proud of it. I Get 100% what there march was about and I fully understand that the Police Officer in Question was Wrong but I believe that they should of united under a different word/banner only to avoid the automatic confusion and scorn that usually follows that word. But that's just my Opinion on the Word it's self the Group and the cause is just.

 

[Sonicron]

They should be able to choose how they dress without the worry of being raped.

In an ideal world, absolutely.

OT: Fine with me. Let them have the word, there are plenty of other verbal abuses I can throw at their heads if I so choose.
That said, I do approve of the reason behind their march.

 

[albinoterrorist]

"lol women should dress how they want without consequences"
No.
Just.. No.

True, if someone wants to rape you, they'll do it, but dressing in a manner to help those thoughts worm their way into their minds doesn't help.

Point in case: I would not march around urban Germany with a swastika armband, because it will exponentially increase the chances of something bad happening.

Nor would I go around more conservative areas (or anywhere, for that matter) in just tight leather arseless chaps with a leather jacket and no shirt.

While I respect your freedom to dress however you want, when it blows up in your face it is, ultimately, your fault for making yourself a more likely target.

Note how i'm not saying "everyone who dresses as a slut will be raped" or "men are provoked beyond self-control when you dress that way", but am merely stating the simple fact that you're essentially tattooing a bullseye to your forehead.

If you're unlucky enough, someone'll eventually try to hit it.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Sigh..

Since a very close friend of mine is involved in organizing one of these. You've totally missed the point, along with most of the people on this thread.

1) It is not advocating sexual promiscuity
2) It is not advocating particular modes of dress
3) It is not advocating anything

It is about the following:

1) That women are held to higher standards of 'respectability' than men.
2) That female sexuality is subject to far more control than male sexuality.
3) That this higher standard functions as both a motive and a mitigating factor in rape cases.

With the ultimate point being that:

Women should not have to adhere to higher standards of behaviour or risk being raped.

Is that clear now?

Also, if you want to me to chart the sad and depressing history of abuses against sexually 'active' women, I'll do it, but I imagine I don't even need to. Sure, there's an element of that in there too, and yes the identity politics of claiming pejorative terms is always difficult, but it can be highly effective (see Queer).

The point is not that women want to be 'sluts'. The point is that the word slut is inherently misogynist and actually describes perfect acceptable behaviours which any fair society should have come to terms with a long time ago.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

So...
What's the difference between a slut and a *****?
A slut sleeps with everyone... a ***** sleeps with everyone but you.

THAT IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL CONTRIBUTION I CAN OFFER TO THIS MAJESTIC THREAD. I AM HUMBLED BY ITS AWE-INSPIRING MAGNIFICENCE. INSHALLAH AND STUFF.

Edit: also, the guy above me seems to have figured it out. Read that shit and do not comment ever again on a thread.

 

[jboking]

Couple of problems here, number one everybody seems to assume that women are raped more frequently when they wear "sluttier clothes". No one I have seen has backed this up with statistical evidence. In fact, I'd say this assumption betrays the idea that the rapist is somehow understandable in his actions. I mean look at her! Shaking her ass, wearing revealing clothes, how can these men control themselves?!

Again, I'd love to see some statistical evidence here.

First: I'm not saying that, objectively, rape victims are always slutty dressers.
It wouldn't surprise me to see that numbers are solid on date-rape cases where women dressed provocatively, but I can't say that as fact. I don't have said numbers.

Second: These women in this protest are, themselves, bringing up this point. The one sign says "Don't tell me how to dress, tell men not to rape", presupposing herself that there is a correlation between provocative dress and rape victims. Again: absolutely not empirical evidence, but it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers were solid.

Here are some numbers for you.

Think back to what that woman was saying. She wasn't saying there is a correlation, she is saying that a gov official stating that "women just shouldn't dress like sluts" isn't a solution and is plain and simple ignorant. If you want to solve the problem, "Don't tell [women] how to dress, tell men not to rape." Or, in my opinion, provide self-defense courses for this kind of thing.

are we willing to look at things in a different light now?