I will be quite saddened if they remove my main man Olimar. But even if he's gone, there are still plenty of characters to be used.
Smash Bros. Director Is Stressed Out Deciding The Roster
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
*fingers crossed* Lucina instead of Marth, Lucina instead of Marth, Lucina instead of Marth...
Or at the very least Chrom instead of Ike.
I wouldn't mind Wolf being cut, but he, Falco, and Fox are different enough in terms of regular attacks and even if their specials have similar functions, the way they work are unique so I just don't know. At least though, if you keep one of them in, make their special an Arwing, maybe Falco cause he has higher jumps?
Or at the very least Chrom instead of Ike.
I wouldn't mind Wolf being cut, but he, Falco, and Fox are different enough in terms of regular attacks and even if their specials have similar functions, the way they work are unique so I just don't know. At least though, if you keep one of them in, make their special an Arwing, maybe Falco cause he has higher jumps?
Why Sonic and Toon Link? What better way is there to promote Lost Worlds and Windwaker HD than to include these characters?hazabaza1 said:
When did this happen?!The Lazy Blacksmith said:
1) Ike would be a more logical cut, since the Tellius games are done with and Marth is, y'know, the Fire Emblem rep, since he was the original game's protagonist and even the icon for Fire Emblem in Smash Bros. is his sword.MisterM2402 said:
2) Seriously, aside from the fact that he was in Melee, why do people want Roy back in Smash so badly?
3) I'm hoping for Lyn, personally.
OT: While it's serious bad news that the job is really stressing him out, I kinda like that Sakurai really does care so much. Hopefully this means Zero Suit Samus won't be cut so easily. She's my main in Brawl while regular Samus is nowhere near as fun to play.
I'm sorry to hear that development on this game is causing Sakurai so much stress. Didn't he injure his hand a while back while working on this game? Sakurai really has no luck.
I am glad to hear however that Sakurai takes the task of potentially removing beloved characters so seriously. It warms my heart.
I'm not a fan of removing characters but I always felt that Falco, Pokémon Trainer, Lucas, and Toon Link should be removed. I enjoyed their appearance in the series but I feel there are better characters to include, or that they don't offer enough uniqueness to validate them being a character. Falco for instance would be better replaced for a staff wielding Krystal, while Pokémon Trainer should represent one of the newer generations of Pokémon such as Black/White or X/Y (ideally I would want him to be an actual developed character from the series, like N).
As for characters that people on this site have been voicing could be removed, I can understand Wolf and R.O.B., the latter of these was mostly included for story importance anyway, though it would be disheartening as they are two of my favourites. Also Wolf adds to the villain roster and plays more differently to Fox than Falco does. The case of removing Snake and Sonic are dependent on their respective third parties though I would like to avoid having too many third party characters if it comes at the cost of first party characters. I saw someone mention Zero Suit Samus but I don't count her as a separate character, like how you wouldn't consider Zelda and Shiek to be separate characters.
The two removals I don't understand people saying are Lucario and Mr. Game and Watch. Both of them have unique play-styles and both represent something important; Lucario is currently the only Pokémon character representing the series outside the first generation and Mr Game and Watch represents an important part of Nintendo's video game history. They deserve their spots on the roster, particularly Mr Game and Watch.
As for the addition of new characters, at this point I would say there are only two characters I feel should definitely be in the next game; Ridley and Little Mac. They both come across to me as characters that should have been in the series back in brawl. Other characters however, it's a little up in the air. The biggest Nintendo series already have their most important characters included (except Metroid's lack of Ridley). The Mario series could have Bowser Jr added but it's not needed. After Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf the only other important and recurring Legend of Zelda characters that might deserve a spot are Tingle and Vaati. Pokémon is more of a case of representing the newer generations and that could easily be done by simply updating the Pokémon trainer to represent the newer generation each instalment of the SSB series. Kirby series has Kirby, Metaknight, and King Dedede, no other Kirby character is needed. Of course there are characters I'd love to see, Lip is my most wanted character, above even Ridley, but as for characters I feel deserve to be in the game, I leave it at just Ridley and Little Mac.
Overall though I hope that not too many characters are cut out and that the ones that are introduced are either unique in play-style or representing a series that has yet to be represented or is under-represented (still looking at you Metroid with your one character of Samus).
I am glad to hear however that Sakurai takes the task of potentially removing beloved characters so seriously. It warms my heart.
I'm not a fan of removing characters but I always felt that Falco, Pokémon Trainer, Lucas, and Toon Link should be removed. I enjoyed their appearance in the series but I feel there are better characters to include, or that they don't offer enough uniqueness to validate them being a character. Falco for instance would be better replaced for a staff wielding Krystal, while Pokémon Trainer should represent one of the newer generations of Pokémon such as Black/White or X/Y (ideally I would want him to be an actual developed character from the series, like N).
As for characters that people on this site have been voicing could be removed, I can understand Wolf and R.O.B., the latter of these was mostly included for story importance anyway, though it would be disheartening as they are two of my favourites. Also Wolf adds to the villain roster and plays more differently to Fox than Falco does. The case of removing Snake and Sonic are dependent on their respective third parties though I would like to avoid having too many third party characters if it comes at the cost of first party characters. I saw someone mention Zero Suit Samus but I don't count her as a separate character, like how you wouldn't consider Zelda and Shiek to be separate characters.
The two removals I don't understand people saying are Lucario and Mr. Game and Watch. Both of them have unique play-styles and both represent something important; Lucario is currently the only Pokémon character representing the series outside the first generation and Mr Game and Watch represents an important part of Nintendo's video game history. They deserve their spots on the roster, particularly Mr Game and Watch.
As for the addition of new characters, at this point I would say there are only two characters I feel should definitely be in the next game; Ridley and Little Mac. They both come across to me as characters that should have been in the series back in brawl. Other characters however, it's a little up in the air. The biggest Nintendo series already have their most important characters included (except Metroid's lack of Ridley). The Mario series could have Bowser Jr added but it's not needed. After Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf the only other important and recurring Legend of Zelda characters that might deserve a spot are Tingle and Vaati. Pokémon is more of a case of representing the newer generations and that could easily be done by simply updating the Pokémon trainer to represent the newer generation each instalment of the SSB series. Kirby series has Kirby, Metaknight, and King Dedede, no other Kirby character is needed. Of course there are characters I'd love to see, Lip is my most wanted character, above even Ridley, but as for characters I feel deserve to be in the game, I leave it at just Ridley and Little Mac.
Overall though I hope that not too many characters are cut out and that the ones that are introduced are either unique in play-style or representing a series that has yet to be represented or is under-represented (still looking at you Metroid with your one character of Samus).
Yeah it is kinda a tough choice on who to get rid of, so I guess I'll think of some that I would be fine with getting rid of.
People I would be fine with getting rid of:
Wolf
Lucas
Toon Link
Falco
Characters I would be fine with getting replaced with someone else:
Ganondorf with either Ghirahim or Demise
Marth with Lucina
Or for some of the clone characters just make them as alternate outfits for other characters. I think that could work.
People I would be fine with getting rid of:
Wolf
Lucas
Toon Link
Falco
Characters I would be fine with getting replaced with someone else:
Ganondorf with either Ghirahim or Demise
Marth with Lucina
Or for some of the clone characters just make them as alternate outfits for other characters. I think that could work.
Wouldn't it be easy to cut the cast down quickly if you just took a bunch of the clone characters and made them unlockable/secret alternative costumes for the main cast. This would clean up the selection menu, keep the move sets simple for balancing issues, and allow for more characters instead of having to cut them out. Sure you would have to decide which characters are main and which are just re-skins, but do we really need a separate fox and falco? Plus, it could be used for old vs new versions of some characters. Ganondorf is cool and all, but if he had an alt-costume that was Ganon(Link to the Past version)? That would be awesome.
I agree with most of what you said. I only wanted to comment on your choices of new characters. Little Mac was in Brawl...as an assist trophy. Honestly, that was fine for me, because he doesn't really have much to him other than being a boxer. What special moves would he have? As for Ridley, I love the idea of him being a new character, but the logistics of putting him as a playable character, considering his size difference to the rest of the cast, would be tricky to figure out. I mean, Bowser is a lot bigger than Mario, but Ridley is the size of 4 or 5 Bowsers. They'd have to scale him down, figure out how to make him move (since he isn't bipedal)...better to just leave him as he was in Brawl, a boss character.Sould1n said:
Bingo.BramblinTheGnome said:
Wolf and Falco are basically just Fox clones
Pichu is basically a Pikachu clone
Ganondorf is a Captain Falcon clone
Toon Link and Young Link are basically Link clones
Luigi is damn near a Mario clone (though I'd give him a pass and let him remain a separate character just because he's the second most important Nintendo character.
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Once you start making extraneous clone characters into alternate costumes...THAT is when it gets cool. That's when they can stop worrying so much about game balance and can really go nuts with adding cool stuff.
Add ProtoMan and Bass as MegaMan alternatives
Waluigi as a Luigi alternative
Dr. Mario as a Mario alternative
Raichu as a Pikachu alternative
Daisy and Pauline as Peach alternatives
Naked Snake and Old Snake as Solid Snake alternatives
Shadow as a Sonic alternative
etc etc etc etc
I just realized.
Now that Pokemon X and Y is coming out, Mewtwo will return.
You would not believe how excited I am for that.
Now that Pokemon X and Y is coming out, Mewtwo will return.
You would not believe how excited I am for that.
I can totally understand this mans issue. Where I in his position my e-mail would be a national secret. I would switch cars a minimum of 3 times going to and from work. I would have at least 20 dummy Twitter accounts. I would, in short, be doing all of this to avoid the massive amount of fanboy rage that this sort of discussion tends to generate in the hopes of just doing my job.
That said I liked Melee but hated Brawl and am more accepting to character additions that make me go "Neat, I didn't know that __________ was a Nintendo character" rather than "Oh look another character from ________ over exposed franchise".
That said I liked Melee but hated Brawl and am more accepting to character additions that make me go "Neat, I didn't know that __________ was a Nintendo character" rather than "Oh look another character from ________ over exposed franchise".
Oh ho... man.... here we go again.
I really, truly feel for poor Sakurai, as even though he does pour his heart and soul into the franchise, working on the games must be truly stressful for him. I'd understand his pain based on the decisions of who to include in this game's roster as well as who to exclude. The crazy random requests in this thread make me feel for him even more, since a lot of people seem more intent on seeing their own requests make it into the game without any real understanding of why that should be so or seem intent on seeing certain characters cut because... "They're not important to me!".
What a tough decision....
I see sooooooo many requests for third-party characters when in reality, that should be kept to a minimum considering the number of legal hoops Nintendo has to jump through in order to include them in the game, let alone coding a moveset onto them. And even then, it'd be painful to see them cut. I'm a big fan of Snake and Sonic, and I'm content with their inclusion into the game, even if they're the only representatives of their respective franchises (Though it'd be AWESOME if Raiden and Knuckles made it in, but that's wishful thinking)
Also, how come no-one EVER mentions the obscure franchises that Sakurai gives representation in Smash Bros?! EACH and EVERY game in the franchise has given an oddball franchise its moment in the sun, and that moment was so critical that noone would have known about it otherwise. Would we have gone back to try getting Earthbound or playing it on emulators if we didn't know who Ness was? Would we have gotten Fire Emblem to the states if Marth and Roy were cut from the international Melee release? Would we have gotten the awesome Kid Icarus: Uprising if Pit didn't make a comeback?... thought so. I wish we can see more people requesting obscure Nintendo franchises and characters to make a comeback.
Here's some surprise characters I have my fingers crossed for:
Issa ( Sin & Punishment: Star Successor ). Not sure about this one, since this was published by Treasure and I think Nintendo kinda needs their permission to put this character in. It'd be great though, considering that the games themselves are amazing rail-shooters and need more attention.
Lip ( Panel de Pon ). I find it kind of funny how the Lip's Stick item has been appearing in the latter two Smash Bros. games, yet we have no clue what game that item is from or why we should care now... That can change.
Captain Rainbow(Need more info...).
Trying to avoid characters already mentioned like Shulk, Little Mac, and whoever was in Pandora's Tower, but you guys get the idea...
Hope the stresses of designing this game won't break him completely... I can already barely imagine what working on Melee was like, since he had a grand total of 13 months of dedicated time to work on that game.... no vacations or breaks... just work... Wow....
I really, truly feel for poor Sakurai, as even though he does pour his heart and soul into the franchise, working on the games must be truly stressful for him. I'd understand his pain based on the decisions of who to include in this game's roster as well as who to exclude. The crazy random requests in this thread make me feel for him even more, since a lot of people seem more intent on seeing their own requests make it into the game without any real understanding of why that should be so or seem intent on seeing certain characters cut because... "They're not important to me!".
What a tough decision....
I see sooooooo many requests for third-party characters when in reality, that should be kept to a minimum considering the number of legal hoops Nintendo has to jump through in order to include them in the game, let alone coding a moveset onto them. And even then, it'd be painful to see them cut. I'm a big fan of Snake and Sonic, and I'm content with their inclusion into the game, even if they're the only representatives of their respective franchises (Though it'd be AWESOME if Raiden and Knuckles made it in, but that's wishful thinking)
Also, how come no-one EVER mentions the obscure franchises that Sakurai gives representation in Smash Bros?! EACH and EVERY game in the franchise has given an oddball franchise its moment in the sun, and that moment was so critical that noone would have known about it otherwise. Would we have gone back to try getting Earthbound or playing it on emulators if we didn't know who Ness was? Would we have gotten Fire Emblem to the states if Marth and Roy were cut from the international Melee release? Would we have gotten the awesome Kid Icarus: Uprising if Pit didn't make a comeback?... thought so. I wish we can see more people requesting obscure Nintendo franchises and characters to make a comeback.
Here's some surprise characters I have my fingers crossed for:
Issa ( Sin & Punishment: Star Successor ). Not sure about this one, since this was published by Treasure and I think Nintendo kinda needs their permission to put this character in. It'd be great though, considering that the games themselves are amazing rail-shooters and need more attention.
Lip ( Panel de Pon ). I find it kind of funny how the Lip's Stick item has been appearing in the latter two Smash Bros. games, yet we have no clue what game that item is from or why we should care now... That can change.
Captain Rainbow(Need more info...).
Trying to avoid characters already mentioned like Shulk, Little Mac, and whoever was in Pandora's Tower, but you guys get the idea...
Hope the stresses of designing this game won't break him completely... I can already barely imagine what working on Melee was like, since he had a grand total of 13 months of dedicated time to work on that game.... no vacations or breaks... just work... Wow....
Seriously. If he is trying to have SSB be a put competitive game, he's forgotten what Nintendo is all about. My friends would have melee and brawl tournaments and that made me see how much of an unbalanced game it was. Playing it seriously is ridiculous, people play it to have silly crossovers.War Penguin said:
Hell. Games like DOA, SF, Tekken, Namco/Marvel vs Capcom are all played competitively and have huge character rosters.
I remember Sakurai saying that Brawl hit a sort of Roster Critical Mass and I thought of a way to both expand and shrink the roster.
Skins
Mix some of the clones together and make them unlockable skins for the same character. I.E. cut Luigi as a character and make him and Dr.Mario as unlockble skins for Mario. Or Toon and Young Link become unlockable Link skins. You can get a lot of Mileage out of this.
Skins
Mix some of the clones together and make them unlockable skins for the same character. I.E. cut Luigi as a character and make him and Dr.Mario as unlockble skins for Mario. Or Toon and Young Link become unlockable Link skins. You can get a lot of Mileage out of this.
I'm not too concerned with who gets cut, although I do hope Game & Watch stays.
Personally I want Matthew from Golden Sun. (I'd prefer Isaac, but Dark Dawn is newer)
Also, if there is anyone from Sega, it should be Vyse from Skies of Arcadia.
Personally I want Matthew from Golden Sun. (I'd prefer Isaac, but Dark Dawn is newer)
Also, if there is anyone from Sega, it should be Vyse from Skies of Arcadia.
Really? Just take the Wii game and add more characters. Easy really. Even better, only die hard ninty fans even know the obscure characters you add anyway. So it had no effect on anyone.
Oh, believe me, I don't think this is the route that he should be going. That's not what Smash is about. However, I understand that Sakurai wants his creation to be taken seriously, because a lot of people don't even understand that it's just for silly unbalanced fun. Those people get frustrated with it and I think Sakurai is trying to appeal to that crowd now. Which makes me very worried and upset.Lovely Mixture said:
Yes... Yes! YYYEEESSS!!!Ken_J said:
Seriously, I thought they'd pick that up with what they did for Wario. It just makes sense!