"Snooty" Shooter Critics Anger Rage Dev

[Mr. Eff_v1legacy]

I agree that these games aren't bad. I like me some Call of Duty now and then - they're well put together games. What frustrates me is (at least partially) due to the popularity of these games, other genres are being watered down to become more action oriented.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I draw your attention to the following:

"That's still a proven formula that people like, and it's a mistake to [discount that]. As long as people are buying it, it means they're enjoying it," he said. "If they buy the next Call of Duty, it's because they loved the last one and they want more of it."

Replace Call of Duty with Transformers in that quote.

A lot of people enjoy the transformer-film.
Im willing to bet that the majority enjoyed them... Otherwise they wouldn't make any money.

And it makes perfect sense! Some people are just to up-tight to realize that they are in the minority.

What do I care if I'm in the minority? Transformers is still shit, no matter how many people like it.

No, Transformers is a movie, not excrements.
And again, you may not like it, but that's your opinion, which you are entitled to.. Just don't force it onto others.

We all know my opinion is an opinion, there is no need to point this out. I'm hardly bending your elbow by calling a movie 'shit'.

I think this is a waste of all our time. He obviously didn't put more than a moment's thought into this topic, and it's not clear exactly what he's trying to say. I do find myself wondering what exactly triggered this reaction (and it does seem like a reaction).

It may have put asses in seats, but that doesn't mean it's a "good" or quality film. It may have achieved the goal set for it by it's creators, but that doesn't mean it isn't horrifying to behold. It's not a good movie, and definitely not based on that criteria.

What do I care if I'm in the minority? Transformers is still shit, no matter how many people like it.

Because clearly you're the universal judge of quality.

You might say I am a judge of quality.

Subjectivity is for other people. You only make objective statements. You don't have an opinion, you have facts.

Every time I state an opinion, I am not going to precede it with the statement "this is an opinion" and I shouldn't need to. We all know what opinions are, let's just move past this.

Hell, we should just make you president of the world already. Clearly you know better then everyone else. /sarcasm

No matter how arrogant you get, you don't get to decide what's good and what's not. A majority of people enjoyed the transformers. They saw something good in it. You're just too blind to see that something.

That's ridiculously insulting. And wrong. Popularity does not make the Transformers trilogy quality cinema. They may have seen something good in it, sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm missing out on anything.

And no, I did not like the movies. But I still have enough respect for other people to not call their subjective opinions wrong.

There is a difference between calling an opinion wrong and holding a conflicting opinion.

And I'm not so arrogant as to still call something bad when I'm incapable of seeing what's good about it but thousands of people do, instead I'm humble enough to admit that I might just be missing something and be at peace with that.

I don't care if all those people saw Jesus, I won't believe it till I see it myself. Call that arrogant if you want.

 

[stewox]

The reasons why carmack defended call of duty:

because ID's a friend with Infinity Ward (to some capacity personally too)
because Call of Duty runs on ID Software technology
because ID software got piles of cash on every call of duty released (engine license royalties)

Taaadaaaaa....

No carmack is not that stupid ... he knows only kids and noobs play MW2. Deep inside his heart is breaking seeing it and that's a mature response - he praises and find positives in the weak. The other part is the PR tactic - he said negative would probably get him a lot of MW2 fanboys making him trollish bad publicity.

 

[Kurai Angelo]

John Carmack rules. I love this article. Sums up my viewpoints on the "innovation " issue perfectly.

What? That innovation's pointless as long as the dev's are making money?

Cos that's what it sounds like he's saying to me.

 

[Rawne1980]

John Carmack rules. I love this article. Sums up my viewpoints on the "innovation " issue perfectly.

Yeah, you're right.

Who needs innovation.

In 10 years when they release CoD 967 and the last remaining 3 players it has buy it, i'll remind you of this.

Who needs innovation in gaming?

We bloody do. Or they will keep shoving shit like that down our throats and people will buy it because there is sod all else or we'll give up altogether.

 

[Kurai Angelo]

John Carmack rules. I love this article. Sums up my viewpoints on the "innovation " issue perfectly.

Yeah, you're right.

Who needs innovation.

In 10 years when they release CoD 967 and the last remaining 3 players it has buy it, i'll remind you of this.

Who needs innovation in gaming?

We bloody do. Or they will keep shoving shit like that down our throats and people will buy it because there is sod all else or we'll give up altogether.

Here here!!

This and more. Just because people keep buying the same old shit that's being shovelled out doesn't mean they shouldn't be putting the effort in.

 

[RelexCryo]

John Carmack rules. I love this article. Sums up my viewpoints on the "innovation " issue perfectly.

Yeah, you're right.

Who needs innovation.

In 10 years when they release CoD 967 and the last remaining 3 players it has buy it, i'll remind you of this.

Who needs innovation in gaming?

We bloody do. Or they will keep shoving shit like that down our throats and people will buy it because there is sod all else or we'll give up altogether.

Here here!!

This and more. Just because people keep buying the same old shit that's being shovelled out doesn't mean they shouldn't be putting the effort in.

I am going to quote Logan Westbrook on this one.

The kind of snobbery that Carmack describes isn't limited just to videogames; you'll find the same kind of people in the worlds of music, film, books, and every other medium. While there's definitely a discussion to be had about how much creativity it is reasonable to expect from triple A games, Carmack's point about popularity not being an intrinsically bad thing has a lot of merit. Hopefully, no one is letting videogame hipsters ruin their fun.

And that's where we hit the line between "art" and "product."

"Art" has something of an obligation to be creative. "Products" need only be marketable. When a product happens to be created in an artistic medium (or when an artist begins to market their creations), which is it really--art, or a product? Once the artistic and the commercial worlds meet, it's hard to separate them again.

That essentially encapsulates the discussion I mentioned. It's no bad thing to want to see more creativity from the industry, but that desire can become snobbery, and that's what Carmack is railing against.