So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[SquidSponge]

Wow, hella touchy subject. OT, I think it's just a poor and unnecessary choice in casting that screws with the consistency of the lore. I mean, if you were looking for a, say, 54-year old, freakishly short North Korean transgender woman with a mole exactly 1 inch to the left of her nose the list of potential actresses isn't too long. In this case, however, the lore states that you're looking for a young white male, of which there are thousands of good candidates (and thousands more that are merely adequate). So why bother screwing around with the lore, regardless of whether the person's ethnicity is a major part of their character? A paranoid person might think they were just stirring controversy for publicity's sake.

 

[Gorrath]

Wow, hella touchy subject. OT, I think it's just a poor and unnecessary choice in casting that screws with the consistency of the lore. I mean, if you were looking for a, say, 54-year old, freakishly short North Korean transgender woman with a mole exactly 1 inch to the left of her nose the list of potential actresses isn't too long. In this case, however, the lore states that you're looking for a young white male, of which there are thousands of good candidates (and thousands more that are merely adequate). So why bother screwing around with the lore, regardless of whether the person's ethnicity is a major part of their character?

Sometimes a change of character can be refreshing. So why not try it? Having a black Nick Fury turned out to be pretty freaking awesome.

 

[Not Lord Atkin]

I don't see how the amount of melanin in the actor's skin is any more relevant than the colour of their hair or eyes. Because I've seen the character go from blonde to black-haired and no one seemed to care back then.

 

[Drejer43]

How is it racist, it is just people complaining about canon. What if a black super hero in the comics was played by a white guy in movies, some people would be pissed too. But no one would call racism. Personally I don't care, I'm just tired of people seeing racism where there is non.

 

[Lilani]

I think I'm going to be perfectly straightforward with how I feel about this one.

No, I don't have a problem with random characters turning black when making the transition to feature film.

Yes, I do have a problem with random characters turning white when making the transition to feature film.

Call me a racist, but the former makes me happy and the latter makes me seethe with anger. Here's why.

Most of these comics were written at a time when the only time any people of ANY color but white were featured was when they were the villain, and a caricatured and highly racist one at that. Since then, we've become more enlightened, and we know a touch of color isn't a bad thing. So to bring these pasty white-supremacist dreamworlds to life as they have always historically existed can be...awkward. I'm not big on comics, but if there's one thing I think every person who's even vaguely aware of comics like me can see it's that there are still a startlingly few number of other races in these worlds. They're getting there, but there is still a lack of thinking going on as to which conventions should go and which should stay. I mean, I just recently had my mind blown by this [http://io9.com/10-white-people-who-became-rulers-of-the-jungle-504629764] article which pretty clearly explains why the whole concept of Tarzan is really, really racist. I mean really, the person who gains dominion over Africa is some random white guy who washed ashore one day? Not one of its native peoples? Really? Really?

The way I like to think of it is, if these comics hadn't been written in such racist times, would all of these heroes have really all have been white? I don't think so, or at least I'd like to hope not.

And again, I do have a problem with characters of color turning white for movies. The hard truth of it is that actors who aren't white have a lot more trouble getting jobs than white actors, because Hollywood still very much exists in this "people only want to see white people star in movies" mindset and the very idea of a country being populated by no white people is just too much for them to handle right now. So when you get a rare world like that and Hollywood decides to whitewash them, it's a pretty sickening step back.

The way I see it, adding minorities to these pasty-white comic worlds is only adding a touch of reality. The epitome of a super-team may have been four glorious white people in the 50s and 60s, but reality today is more colorful than that and fate doesn't just bless the white-skinned. And on the other side of that coin, taking away color is only taking away reality. There are countries that are full of people who aren't white, and for the creators of Avatar: The Last Airbender to be one of the few popular TV shows to embrace this and for the show to make it is in itself incredible. And to wash away that dose of reality with a dose of white people because Hollywood doesn't think the masses can handle watching a movie with that many non-white people is just disgusting beyond words.

So, yes. Bring it on. I'll take blacks and hispanics and asians getting swapped in over white characters getting swapped in any day.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Cracked had an article about this. Now, for the most part, I agree, this topic brings out racism like nobodies business, but...

We want the characters to look like the characters we know, right? How is that wrong? Like, yes, Johnny Storm has personality traits (not to mention his iconic power) which we can identify him through, but if he doesn't LOOK like how we picture him, its strange. That's quite apart from the idea that, however racist we, the audience, might or might not be, we can't trust the WRITER not to be racist. Think about the character Cyborg. Dude is like 90% robot, and just a teeny tiny bit of black man's face. And he keeps being written with the most stereotypical "black man" portrayal stuff! Hell, almost as soon as he appears in Injustice, he gets an "I am a black man" line. It's kind of appalling.
Then again, that raises another point. People would get JUST AS MAD if you turned Cyborg white!

Now, I don't think anyone is willing to argue that Edris Elba didn't do well as heimdall, or even that his costume wasn't as good as comics-version (normal heimdall looks like balls, you guys), and yes, the whole "no black hobbits" thing was pure racism, even if it was racism fueled by unfortunately coherent points. So maybe this guy (i'm not familiar with the actor or his work, except to know that calling him a "star" in Chronicle is reaching) will do awesome as Johnny Storm. But it's not inherently racist to be put off by the actor.

Okay, I've gotta go on another Captcha rant:
I just got a fucking Captcha that QUIZZED me. Not only is it yet another ad on this already-overladen site, but its one that expects me to know when a fucking TV show (which, oddly, i HAVEN'T seen advertised on this site, or anywhere. I've literally never heard of it before) comes on television. Why am I back here in the post box? BECAUSE I GOT THE ANSWER WRONG. And guess what? I have ANOTHER one waiting for me at the end of this post attempt! Expect this rant to continue if the Hampton Inn doesnt offer "better business travel"

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Wow, hella touchy subject. OT, I think it's just a poor and unnecessary choice in casting that screws with the consistency of the lore. I mean, if you were looking for a, say, 54-year old, freakishly short North Korean transgender woman with a mole exactly 1 inch to the left of her nose the list of potential actresses isn't too long. In this case, however, the lore states that you're looking for a young white male, of which there are thousands of good candidates (and thousands more that are merely adequate). So why bother screwing around with the lore, regardless of whether the person's ethnicity is a major part of their character?

Sometimes a change of character can be refreshing. So why not try it? Having a black Nick Fury turned out to be pretty freaking awesome.

to be fair, Nick Fury is just Samuel L. Jackson playing Samuel L. Jackson, not Nick Fury. But yeah, he's pretty freaking great

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I really don't see the problem with it, but they have to make Sue Storm black as well then. None of that adopted child crap, that would change the dynamic of the group too much.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

How is it racist, it is just people complaining about canon. What if a black super hero in the comics was played by a white guy in movies, some people would be pissed too. But no one would call racism. Personally I don't care, I'm just tired of people seeing racism where there is non.

I've been saying it for years, WHITE LUKE CAGE! But no one wants to go for it.

 

[vid87]

Cracked had an article about this. Now, for the most part, I agree, this topic brings out racism like nobodies business, but...

Funny you mentioned Cracked because I came across an old article regarding "Old Timey Racist Themes Hollywood Won't Let Go" that made me realize a very important truth that all but guarantees Sue Storm will stay white:

If she were black, she and Reed Richards would be an interracial relationship.

If we're pissing and moaning now about Johnny Storm, do any of you honestly think Hollywood will chance something that, as far as that article points out, is still oddly taboo in this era? Granted, if they did go ahead with it, it would be pretty ground-breaking not just for superhero movies but mainstream movies in general.

 

[Gorrath]

Wow, hella touchy subject. OT, I think it's just a poor and unnecessary choice in casting that screws with the consistency of the lore. I mean, if you were looking for a, say, 54-year old, freakishly short North Korean transgender woman with a mole exactly 1 inch to the left of her nose the list of potential actresses isn't too long. In this case, however, the lore states that you're looking for a young white male, of which there are thousands of good candidates (and thousands more that are merely adequate). So why bother screwing around with the lore, regardless of whether the person's ethnicity is a major part of their character?

Sometimes a change of character can be refreshing. So why not try it? Having a black Nick Fury turned out to be pretty freaking awesome.

to be fair, Nick Fury is just Samuel L. Jackson playing Samuel L. Jackson, not Nick Fury. But yeah, he's pretty freaking great

No disagreement from me on that. It is just as you say it is. Luckily, he happens to suit it pretty fantastically. I would argue the same for Jack Nicholson's joker. It was just him doing what he always does, but it was still, in my opinion, a perfect fit.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Cracked had an article about this. Now, for the most part, I agree, this topic brings out racism like nobodies business, but...

Funny you mentioned Cracked because I came across an old article regarding "Old Timey Racist Themes Hollywood Won't Let Go" that made me realize a very important truth that all but guarantees Sue Storm will stay white:

If she were black, she and Reed Richards would be an interracial relationship.

If we're pissing and moaning now about Johnny Storm, do any of you honestly think Hollywood will chance something that, as far as that article points out, is still oddly taboo in this era? Granted, if they did go ahead with it, it would be pretty ground-breaking not just for superhero movies but mainstream movies in general.

See I'll be more pissed if they don't make Sue Storm black.

Like change the race of the characters or don't, but if you do don't half ass it.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Hooray, another person comparing black people to animals! Nope, no racism here, no sirree...

That's not racism, it's hyperbole. Would you think it equally racist if rock was used instead of poodle? ZOMG HE'S EQUATING PEOPLE WITH OBJECTS MAN THAT'S HOW PEOPLE GET OWNT!!!!1

People are animals, by the way. They're also objects. That some of us may feel really, really strongly about them doesn't change that.

 

[Lightknight]

I'll start by saying I'm not a fantastic 4 fan. So I don't really care at all.

I don't particularly know if it's necessarily racism to complain about inconsistencies like this. I mean, I'm certain some complainers are absolutely being racist because they don't like black people or some such nonesense but I'd say that skin color is no less a physical characteristic than hair color and whatnot. People would complain if Invisible Woman's hair was not blonde or if The Thing was blue instead of Orange. So don't think it's fair to automatically dismiss complaints of different skin colors as racism without admitting that they could just desire consistency with the characters they've grown to know and love. It's important that John Stewart (the Green Lantern, not the actor) is black and I would raise absolute hell over someone casting him as any other race than black. But would it really be any less "racist" to be upset if someone cast John Stewart as a white actor? I'd think both complaints would be equally "racist" but we're being inconsistent as a society in being ok with one but not another.

That being said, Holy Hell if Samuel L. Jackson doesn't make a kick ass Nick Fury and breath new life into the character. If the actor owns the role then it doesn't really matter for most people in the end. Then again, Fury hasn't really been such a huge character despite his involvement in several stories. Reimagining him stepped on a lot fewer toes than changing wolverine or superman would have (yes, different universes, I know, just talking about comics in general). Most people want to see a movie with actors that look like the characters they've been following since childhood. Automatically tagging it as racist when they would have complained about a change of hair color isn't being honest.

I think making significant changes in heroes appearances needs to be done with care. Black actors should absolutely be considered for the roles but in a lot of ways actors are often cast because they look like the characters they're portraying and makeup does the rest. I'd say the source material is more to blame (e.g., the source defines the race of the character and so that is a characteristic of theirs). But what are you going to do when one race outnumbers the other 72.4% (White or European American) to 12.6% (Black or African American) (almost 6 times)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity

This is a fascinating topic. It's interesting to see how people handle these conversations. Has Hitler already been mentioned in this thread as an argument tactic?

Marvel and DC resolve this issue by making another character with the same powers that have a different demographic. Batgirl, Supergirl, John Stewart as a black Green Lantern, Steel (a black superman whose actual name is John Henry Irons which borrows directly from the African American folk hero John Henry), War Machine (why are black variations of existing superheros often given silver/steel colored variations of the costume?). They also both rely heavily on alternate universes to alter the hero's appearances and backstories readily. Movies may try the same route but I don't know how popular such a decision would be.

 

[greatcheezer2021]

sure we can have a black johnny storm.
and a black goku.
and a white shaft.
and a mexican jules winnfield.
and a asian wonder woman.
and a russian han solo.
and a japanese captain america.

do you see why we dont mess with characters who have been already established as cultural icons in respect whatever country they hail from? especially when they dont wear a mask to protect their identity? or have a freakin country in their name?

 

[Zero=Interrupt]

As long as you can cast white actors to play black characters, then vice versa is fine, too. Right?

Don't nod your head. The whole thing is dumb.

Now, realistically, if an asian guy actually plays... oh shit, I dunno, Arnold in the Different Strokes movie or white guy Static Shock in the Static Shock movie, people will lose their shit. You either cry "ZOMG RACISM!" at everything, or you do it at nothing, but let's not have a double standard. Remember when M.Night Shyamalikantmakeadecentmovietosavemylife made Avatar with zero asian actors? And everyone had a heart attack? What's wrong with casting characters as the ethnicity they're supposed to be? You wouldn't cast a white guy in Sydney Poitier's role in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, and you wouldn't cast a black guy as Hitler in the next WWII movie, just like you wouldn't strap a horn to a lion and call it a rhino. It's not racism, it's casting appropriate to the writing. If I write a character is hispanic, name him Miguel Alvarez, and set the whole movie in Ecuador, they'd be stupid to cast.... shit, I dunno, Ralphie May. Especially if he's supposed to be a thin, muscular gymnast.

OOooohh but isn't that Weightism?

No, it's not. Get your head out of your ass.

Honestly, all this PC crap has made people stupid. That's why the Muhammad Ali biopic is going to feature a female Asian midget as Ali, the critics will love it, and everyone else will complain how dumb it is that Howard Cosell is interviewing midget Lucy Liu.

 

[Dagda Mor]

I just don't think race-flipping such a big character would be a good idea, regardless of which race he is.