So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[SwellyMan]

Firstly you should watch this http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3183-Skin-Deep Moviebob brings up a lot of good points in the wake of the whole Elba/Heimdall debacle.

Secondly, Regardless on what you think, you'll probably still end up seeing the movie, and if the movie and the actor are good we'll all be back here when they decide to cast Aquaman as a black guy, and people will cite this and Thor of why not casting an actor due to race doesn't matter. And if they're crap, the movie will just fall into cultural nothingness and people won't give a shit. When you really think about it, there isn't much to lose.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Comics is a visual medium, it's not at all racist or surprising that people would want the characters to be true to the source material. It's nostalgia more than anything. The Thing looked fucking stupid in the last movie. It didn't feel 'right' the whole time I was watching it. The whole reason fans get excited about seeing their favorite comic characters on screen is because they like the characters. That's kind of the point. If they start changing them for arbitrary reasons then they're not really those characters anymore. When you think Johnny Storm you probably have the 616 version in your mind. When you think Thing, you think rocky guy with a big eye brow. When you think Doom, you don't think whatever the Hell that abortion from the first film was. Why not swap everyone's ethnicity around? White Storm, black Magneto, Maori Jubilee!

Why should he be black? If you're going to go fucking around with almost a hundred years of history you'd better have a good reason, not a pandering shoe-horn and a tub of lube.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I remember that time Heimdall was going to be portrayed by Idris Elba despite Heimdall always being white as the northern snow. I also remember Elba being one of the biggest bad-asses in Thor and doing a really good job in that role. That was a completely different character, actor, role, lore, etc. Sue and Johnny Storm are canonically siblings after all. Then again that can always be explained away with adoption or some other such thing.

My understanding was that the two Fantastic Four films were so reviled by fans and critics than any change in any way would be for the best. I look forward to seeing what comes of all of this; hopefully it'll be a great film with a Dr. Doom to insert into the shared film continuity (Dr. Doom is awesome after all).

 

[Mister K]

I think Brad Pitt should play Luke Cage. What? It will "add new depth to the character", or some other bull****.

how would that add new depth?
just curious how this works in your head.

Oops. Forgot to add *jokingly* at the end. Bad VMK, really bad.
What I meant, actually, is YOUR actual question. Such changes to characters are made to simply stir controversy, to add awareness about movie + to show that we are all "Oh so freakin' tollerant". They add nothing. They do not add depth, or change anything important.
And that's why I mentioned Luke Cage and Brad Pitt. Such change would be made just for the sake of the change + mentioned controversy.

 

[Randomosity]

If they make it work, I am perfectly okay with this. Though I am in the camp of making Sue and Johnny both the same race. In my opinion, it gets weird otherwise and ultimately would take up time in the movie to explain it. Even if it is a quick explanation, it is something that takes up time from stuff that would actually be important to the story. Best to avoid it all together and make em both the same race. I don't care if that race is Black, White, Ferret, Moon people, oompa-loompa, or otherwise, just as long as they are a match set.

 

[Sacman]

I'm sure we all know comicbook fans have a big bug up their ass when it comes to authenticity. And it's their right, I mean, they love these characters and want to see them stay as true to the source material as possible. Didn't Daniel Craig get critisized for being a blond Bond? That wasn't about race either.

Yeah, everyone forgets that nerds will rage about any, tiny, little continuity error, race really has nothing to do with it, just the fact that something changed at all... because really, without continuity, all is lost in nerddome...<.<

And honestly I'm kind of with them... though, I'm apparently one of those racist scum who thinks that if you don't look the part, you shouldn't get the role...<.<

 

[nathan-dts]

Unless Sue is black, then I don't like the idea. You can reboot the character, just like Fury, but you can't change their family or else they have to start messing with the character's background, too.

Why does Sue have to be black as well to keep people happy? One simple line "Hey, this is my adopted brother Johnny" and done. Not much to it.

I guess you're right.

 

[LongAndShort]

Ah, I find these conversations difficult. I think the best way to sum up my opinion is that if we want more inclusive casting, it should be done by creating more inclusive roles. I don't think they should turn characters black (not least because the reasoning frequently seems to be so the studio can scream "Look! A black actor!", and that offends me), I think they should start production on adapting some black superheroes to the screen.

 

[MorganL4]

I didn't agree with it but I could at least understand the argument for Heimndal.. He is a Norse god, I don't think the Norse knew that people of color existed... But Johnny Storm is from New York... I am pretty sure there are black people in New York. But as Johnny Storm is Sue Storm's younger brother wouldn't she have to be black as well? (Not that it matters if she was, but just saying if one is the other should be too)

 

[O maestre]

I think the only mistake is giving the FF another try, it is either going to link up with the avengers in some way otherwise I cannot see it succeeding, i think the stigma of the last FF movie will haunt any kind of reboot.

OT: race and ethnicity doesn't really matter unless it is a distinctive part of the character....like casting the prince of Persia as some white dude, or a movie about Malcolm X with a white guy as Malcolm... it all depends on the context. i am not a FF fan but I don't there is anything undeniably white about the Human Torch. Unless the movie takes place in the early half of the 20st century where a black astronaut is simply an impossibility. If it is taking place during our century, then I see no problem. The American president is black, so race and occupation should no longer be linked in regards to perception.

 

[Edguy]

Is it even possible to think this could be stupid idea, without shouts of 'RACIST' and a large amount of pitchfork wielding?? live in a world full of people just waiting to be offended, and it's getting boring. If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

Couldn't agree any more. Personally, I don't care all that much about the F4, the 2005 movie made sure of that, but it still mildly annoys me. Change for the sake of change isn't a good thing. Especially considering that he's one of a pair of siblings, and if they're going with one of the being adopted or what-not, that just complicates the situation for no apparent reason. Maybe the have a script where said situation is part of the plot somehow, and that might turn out good. But it might also not, and in that case it just gives everyone who loves the comics just another reason not to like it.

I haven't read the comments, but I don't really see what racism have to do with this.

 

[Zef Otter]

Well casting a Black should be no problem :3

Now Turning a super hero Middle eastern would cause more uproar I guess.. *shrug*

Not much of a controversy.

 

[Tombsite]

I didn't agree with it but I could at least understand the argument for Heimndal.. He is a Norse god, I don't think the Norse knew that people of color existed.

They actually did. Called them "Blue men" for some reason. Brought some back as "souvenirs". My ancestors where horrible as well as colour blind

 

[Tombsite]

I haven't read the comments, but I don't really see what racism have to do with this.

Oh there are non racist reasons not to do this (and the thread is pretty good at discussing them). Still a whole lot of "accidental racists" people out there who use canon as an excuse to be, you know racist.

 

[HannesPascal]

I think the biggest question is why their trying to reboot that series after the trainwreck that was the other movies.

Because Fox will lose their license to marvel if they don't do a Fantastic Four movie during x amount of years (this was the main reason the new spiderman movie was made).

OP At least they don't want to replace Johnny with a robot to avoid kids setting themselves on fire while pretending to be the Human torch.

 

[mwhite67]

Imagine what would happen if people made a Spawn movie with white Spawn. People would probably blow a gasket. I though he was Sue's brother so are they both black? Because if not now you're changing more origin stuff than just race. I personally hate Fantastic 4 so I don't care what they do. It's probably just a publicity stunt anyway.

 

[Frotality]

considering these were pop comics made in the 50s, i dont think him being white was ever anything more than a cultural mandate. hes just an energetic party boy type, you hardly have to be white to fit that role. besides, weve seen the fantastic 4 recreated as they were meant to be, weve seen hollywood make and break so many cultural icons for a quick nostalgic buck, shouldnt we at least get a little something different to make the movie some kind of worthwhile? change up some character traits and backgrounds and suddenly youve got a whole new experience that is also nostalgia-gasmic by making the similarities that much more noticeable.

 

[Sepko]

Unless Sue is black, then I don't like the idea. You can reboot the character, just like Fury, but you can't change their family or else they have to start messing with the character's background, too.

Why does Sue have to be black as well to keep people happy? One simple line "Hey, this is my adopted brother Johnny" and done. Not much to it.

So why re write two characters back story instead of just getting an actor of the proper race for either sibling? Which do you think is harder here?

"proper race"? Really?
Weird wording aside, it's not that hard to come up with a background, they're most likely not gonna dwell on it for more than two minutes. "Johnny was adopted by the Storm family when he was 5 or whatever." Easy as pie.

Really? "the proper race"?

 

[O maestre]

Comics is a visual medium, it's not at all racist or surprising that people would want the characters to be true to the source material. It's nostalgia more than anything. The Thing looked fucking stupid in the last movie. It didn't feel 'right' the whole time I was watching it. The whole reason fans get excited about seeing their favorite comic characters on screen is because they like the characters. That's kind of the point. If they start changing them for arbitrary reasons then they're not really those characters anymore. When you think Johnny Storm you probably have the 616 version in your mind. When you think Thing, you think rocky guy with a big eye brow. When you think Doom, you don't think whatever the Hell that abortion from the first film was. Why not swap everyone's ethnicity around? White Storm, black Magneto, Maori Jubilee!

Why should he be black? If you're going to go fucking around with almost a hundred years of history you'd better have a good reason, not a pandering shoe-horn and a tub of lube.

Thats the thing, strictly speaking its not history it is culture and in some regards our modern mythology. The difference is that one is static the other is fluid, myths and culture and the interpretation of them change as the culture around them changes. Why should we be hogtied to the culture of the 50's, if the material is intended to be set during modern times. As long as the portrayals remain true to their characters. I dont think being white is a defining feature of Johnny Storm.

People didn't seem to get butthurt over the film adaptations of the Mandarin or Bane(of the top of my head) I rarely see any butthurt from appearance changes that involve whites taking the place of other ethnicities in fiction... and it rarely even matters, in regards to the characters identity. I am personally under the belief that they find the actor who fits the role best, depending on the movies interpretation of the source material. Do you seriously think they sit down and have a race quota they have to fulfil?

I think Brad Pitt should play Luke Cage. What? It will "add new depth to the character", or some other bull****.

how would that add new depth?
just curious how this works in your head.

Oops. Forgot to add *jokingly* at the end. Bad VMK, really bad.
What I meant, actually, is YOUR actual question. Such changes to characters are made to simply stir controversy, to add awareness about movie + to show that we are all "Oh so freakin' tollerant". They add nothing. They do not add depth, or change anything important.
And that's why I mentioned Luke Cage and Brad Pitt. Such change would be made just for the sake of the change + mentioned controversy.

Why the hell not? if Brad Pitt fits the role best, then why not? Although they probably would have to change the setting from the ghetto to a.... trailer park?(?). Perhaps a better example would be Spawn who's ethnicity doesn't really matter in regards to the character and the world he inhabits.

 

[EeveeElectro]

Is it even possible to think this could be stupid idea, without shouts of 'RACIST' and a large amount of pitchfork wielding?? We live in a world full of people just waiting to be offended, and it's getting boring. If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

Yes, yes, yes. This indeed. I understand people getting disgruntled if someone is a completely different race to their book character or it seems inaccurate for the times and I wouldn't say they're being racist, just like I wouldn't say people are being sexist if they turned Johnny Storm into a woman and people got annoyed.

Samuel L Jackson makes a fantastic Nick Fury, and his comic book character is white in the originals.
[sub]I reeeeally need to get some older Avengers comics[/sub]

As long as Michael doesn't make the whole character about his skin colour I see no problem. It's not about their race, it's how well they play the character. Reinventing can sometimes be a good thing, assuming this a reboot sort of movie they're doing.