So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[EyeReaper]

i don't really care, as the fantastic four aren't that great in my opinion, but I can see why people could get mad at this without being racist. What's so bad about sticking to the source material? that's what an adaption should do.
Think about it like this, what if they did this in the hobbit? what if they made gandalf black and turned bilbo baggins into a woman? gender differences should be just as irrelevant as race differences right?

 

[gwilym101]

I'm not fussed about a black actor getting a role but aren't the human torch and the invisible woman brother and sister? That seems like a really important bit of lore to just scrap for film.

Are they going to make her black as well?

 

[darlarosa]

I don't care either way so long as he's good and they make it consistent 'ala Sue is black too or something to explain.

But does the world need a Fantastic Four movie...I know they have their fans, but they are....to me....so boring...

-edit-
On the Bond thing....Didn't Skyfall basically clarify that there are numerous "James Bonds/007" agents...so any discomfort over his appearance is pretty irrelevant or dumb because having a "image" of Bond in your head means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

 

[Brad Shepard]

Jesus Christ why? Why does every single freaking discussion nowdays have to end in racism or sexism or whatever?! God im getting sick of it. Look, Get it though your heads why these people would be upset, He is white in the books, every single one of them, THATS why people are upset, comic fans want there heros to stay the same, hell, Did you see the rage about Superior spiderman? Mind you i got pissed at that too, but yea, that not the point of this post, i dont care because i dont care about F4, but hell, dont call people racist for no god damn reason, or worse yet, the wrong reason, if they start screaming the N word or something, yea, call them Racist, i will join you in that, but for crying out loud people, this should not be a 16 page topic over something so little as this, how about the guy from destrutoid that got fired for exposing a scam but the people in it called sexism (transism?) because the person doing the scam was Trans and got all butthurt that they used the wrong pronoun or whatnot. But i feel like im pissing into the wind sometimes, the last time i posted a rant like this I got so much shit because i did not like the ME3 ending or something, but whatever, im going back to my video games.

EDIT: Ok, i had to laugh that i ranted about this being 16 pages then my post making it 17.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Isn't it more important whether or not the actor actually fits the role?

Casting isn't about skin colour necessarily, but skin colour is part of someone's appearance and appearance can often be vital to casting someone in the proper role.

I'm much more concerned as to whether or not he'd actually fit the role of Johnny Storm.

 

[MoD1212]

So, genuine question:

If they were instead considering a female actor for the human touch, would complainers be considered sexist?

and to current supporters, would you continue to support this ((and would you continue to use the same kind of justification: 'is the gender really an important part of the human tourches character? What does it matter which chromosomes they have?')
What about current non-supporters, would you continue to argue it's demerits based on their previous depictions not being female?

Different situation completely, Johnny Storms defining characteristics is that he is Sue's younger brother and is arrogant, a trickster, and a playboy. Making him a black guy changes none of this while making him female would completely change his/her and Sues' relationship

 

[MoD1212]

For that matter, how would people react if any of the following characters would be cast as "white" in some next movie?
Bumblebee, Cyborg, John Stewart (Gren Lantern), Steel, Bishop, Black Panther, Storm, War Machine
Or what if they decided to "transform" some of their most iconic characters like Superman or Batman into black transexuals?

It depends, to certain characters, their race is central to their back story and origin. Storm for example could never be white because of the fact that prof X found her in Kenya being praised as a goddess by the locals. Even tho her father was an American, her living in Africa is a huge part of her that would have to change if you made her white.
Black Panther even more so since he is the ruler of a African nation that's never been conquered thru out history and would not have any white citizens period.

War Machine on the other hand could be changed since I don't know of any aspect of his character that relies on him being black. It would just be a bad move since Tony is white and that would just get rid of the only black character instead of adding one like the Johnny Storm move would.

Bruce Wayne couldn't be black because the Waynes are an old family that helped build Gotham and a black family would not have been in a position to do that. And black or whatever guy/girl/transsexual taking over the batman mantle could be ok if handle correctly.

In Johnny case nothing about him relies on him being white, the most important part is that he is Sue's brother and that he's reckless, and black man can be both with out breaking his character

 

[VanTesla]

So yeah,
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/will-chronicle-star-michael-b-jordan-be-human-torch-fantastic-four-88881
Michael B Jordan is considering being The Human Torch in the Fantastic Four reboot. Frankly, I think there's no problem here at all. A role, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with the look of the character, but how well the actor can capture or interpret the character, but the comic book community is complaining all over the internet. Seriously, check the comments. It's not good stuff.

What does the Escapist make of this? Do you guys care about the race of a character in an adaptation?

Stupid and sad when it devolves into race arguments and hate speechs. My only reason I can think of as to why not to change the ethnicity is for it would make no sense with his back story since he is a twin brother of Sue Storm. Well if they changed Sue ethnicity as well, then it work or just have them adopted maybe? I rather Marvel flesh out the already established black heroes instead of changing ethnicity of other heroes. I want to see Black Panther, Blade (again), Cyborg, John Stewart, War Machine, Storm, Luke Cage, and so on. I think it is sad Marvel can't come up with a good script for these characters and instead have to change other characters... I will say I like Idris Elba as Heimdall and Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin (one of the only good things in that Daredevil movie...).

 

[VanTesla]

I don't remember the uproar when Chris Evans wasn't blonde.

Or when Mystique worked for Magneto.

Or when Tony Stark and Pepper Potts got romantically involved.

Well Mystique has worked with Magneto in the past before and Tony Stark has had short relations with Pepper Potts in the past, but nothing long lasting. I don't understand the fan drama to such extreme for you can never have a 100% comic adaptation on film for some things just don't work from comic to big screen. I do like a certain level of faithfulness to actually have the character be what made that character big in the comics though.

 

[Carnage95]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

There are plenty of black heroes characters they can use, no need to change another hero's ethnicity. If they changed Falcon or Luke Cage into a white, asian or whatever, the comic book fanbase will definitely go up against it. Moreover, people know the Fantastic Four regardless of whether they watched the films first, cartoons, or read the comics. I imagine it would feel a tad weird to see Johnny Storm as a black man.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

So, genuine question:

If they were instead considering a female actor for the human touch, would complainers be considered sexist?

and to current supporters, would you continue to support this ((and would you continue to use the same kind of justification: 'is the gender really an important part of the human tourches character? What does it matter which chromosomes they have?')
What about current non-supporters, would you continue to argue it's demerits based on their previous depictions not being female?

Different situation completely, Johnny Storms defining characteristics is that he is Sue's younger brother and is arrogant, a trickster, and a playboy. Making him a black guy changes none of this while making him female would completely change his/her and Sues' relationship

See but that's what I'm asking: On what basis?
You say it's a different completely, but nothing there explains your how or why. It is definitely a question of opinions, but I asked that to try and invoke some deeper discussions/analysis.

What about being female specifically makes you think it would change the dynamic any more or indeed less that changing race, or even sexual preference. Why do you think one necessitates a change in relationship while another does not?

you do say the defining traits are specifically:
-younger brother
-arrogant
-trickster
-playboy

Which seems like you're trying to say that being a younger brother specifically and being a play*boy* are what makes the gender swap 'over the line' but not the race swap. However, when you really think about it, is this:
-younger sibling
-arrogant
-trickster
-player (flirter? not sure what would best fit a female or unisex version of 'playboy')

not also an equally accurate description of those exact same traits? You used gender-charged descriptors, but is there a real reason for that or are you just thinking of gender in the same way others are currently thinking of race? Are you just being sexist?

As i said at one point, it's really a question of how you quantify certain changes,
what makes X change |--this big---|
but Y change |----------this big------------|
?

Only once you kinda work that one out can you get the true answer to my real question: What really qualifies as bigotry (or racism, or sexism) as one side are claiming, or what is actually 'legitimate' complaint about tampering with an already defined character as the other side are claiming, as it's most certainly a grey area.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Hey, remember how Khan from Star Trek was originally played by a Mexican actor and now he's being played by like, the whitest guy ever?

No? Oh well.

 

[MoD1212]

See but that's what I'm asking: On what basis?
You say it's a different completely, but nothing there explains your how or why. It is definitely a question of opinions, but I asked that to try and invoke some deeper discussions/analysis.

What about being female specifically makes you think it would change the dynamic any more or indeed less that changing race, or even sexual preference. Why do you think one necessitates a change in relationship while another does not?

you do say the defining traits are specifically:
-younger brother
-arrogant
-trickster
-playboy

Which seems like you're trying to say that being a younger brother specifically and being a play*boy* are what makes the gender swap 'over the line' but not the race swap. However, when you really think about it, is this:
-younger sibling
-arrogant
-trickster
-player (flirter? not sure what would best fit a female or unisex version of 'playboy')

not also an equally accurate description of those exact same traits? You used gender-charged descriptors, but is there a real reason for that or are you just thinking of gender in the same way others are currently thinking of race? Are you just being sexist?

As i said at one point, it's really a question of how you quantify certain changes,
what makes X change |--this big---|
but Y change |----------this big------------|
?

Only once you kinda work that one out can you get the true answer to my real question: What really qualifies as bigotry (or racism, or sexism) as one side are claiming, or what is actually 'legitimate' complaint about tampering with an already defined character as the other side are claiming, as it's most certainly a grey area.

The Playboy aspect is not why I don't think he can't be a girl, it was poor wording, player works better I guess. The point I was trying to make it that an older sister and younger brother have a different relationship than that of an older sister/younger sister duo. I honestly don't think that's at all sexist to say that. Even if you don't change Johnny personality and made the female just as reckless and arrogant and promiscuous(i think is the word we are looking for) the fact is that Sue would treat her differently.

Quick example cause I don't read a lot of FF, but I do know that Johnny recklessness is one of Sues' main issues with her brother out of concern for his safety, while most older sisters would have a much bigger issues with a more promiscuous little sister worrying about someone breaking her heart/STD's/pregnancy etc. And while I know those promiscuous issue could also happen to a male Johnny (minus getting pregnant) Sue realistically wouldn't stress that on him cause that's is how society is. Dads never trust a daughters bf, but are happy for their son to get a gf and older siblings (brother or Sister) and usually the same way.

So in changing Johnny's sex that is one relation aspect that would change. I wish I had more examples but I'm more of a X-men guy. My point is in Johnny Storms specific case, his race is less important than his sex. needless to say that is not the case for every super hero. In cases with characters like Steve Rodgers(Captain America), Black Panther, Magneto, etc their race and religion in Mag's case are unchangeable aspects because of how central they are to their respected characters.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Huh. I really liked Idris Elba's performance as Heimdall. He had the presence and mannerism down perfectly for a (near)Omniscient deity. I feel so stupid having to state the obvious here, but the most important goal of an actor/actress is that they can make you believe that they are the person they are portraying in their role (be it fictional or real).

If they can accomplish that, there is no "purist" argument large or strong enough to disprove that.

So, if Jordan can put on a good performance in the role of Johnny Storm, I'm all for it.

 

[HalfTangible]

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHO whoa. whoa. Isn't that what I just said? It's sure as heck what I MEANT: pick an actor based on their acting skill, not their race. =/ IMO, Heimdall himself was boring, but not once did I ever doubt that I was watching a God responsible for guarding a rainbow bridge. So yeah, he was a great actor and casting him was a good call.

The wording was a little confusing at the beginning I think.

"nobody intelligent wants an actor chosen for PC reasons."

Obviously you meant to say:
"It's stupid to choose an actor based on PC reasons alone" (with which I agree BTW)

The "nobody" somehow makes it hard to understand (I'm not sure why, but I had trouble reading it at first, even though the sentence is perfectly fine). So it comes out as:

"Intelligent people want an actor chosen on PC reasons" (which is the opposite of what you wanted to say)

I don't mean to correct your English BTW, I just like finding out how things get misread/misinterpreted.

...Ah.

I was trying to say 'picking an actor solely because of PC reasons is dumb'.

 

[Gregory McMillan]

Is it even possible to think this could be stupid idea, without shouts of 'RACIST' and a large amount of pitchfork wielding?? We live in a world full of people just waiting to be offended, and it's getting boring. If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

In this case, I don't really care. But the switching ethnicity's of major characters could get a little tiresome if it appears to merely be for p.c. reasons (I'm looking at you Bond!).

On the same token, this is only one character in a fictional world. This has no bearing on reality, so what if Batman, Superman or Spiderman get casted as black or asian or whatever. As long as it tells a good story about being a hero, what does it matter?

Now if you casted Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln or or Mother Teresa as a different color, then there will be problems because you're simply rewriting history

 

[Bucht]

It's a dumb move to keep casting black actors to play previously existing white characters.
But hey, saying that makes you a racist, because that's the world we live in today.
I bet the film studio would be the racist one if they would cast a white guy to play Falcon, Rage, Power Man, Storm, Morales, etc.

 

[RobAlister]

Is it even possible to think this could be stupid idea, without shouts of 'RACIST' and a large amount of pitchfork wielding?? We live in a world full of people just waiting to be offended, and it's getting boring. If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

In this case, I don't really care. But the switching ethnicity's of major characters could get a little tiresome if it appears to merely be for p.c. reasons (I'm looking at you Bond!).

PC reasons? So you're saying that someone made the case that it was racially instinctive for Johnny Storm to be white for all these years? Please give me a link to whoever said this.

And if you're confused by this, I'm referring to the (true) definition of political correctness.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.

There is also a black spider man, besides when we are talking about a comic book and how many different versions there are of one character I don't think it matters. I mean the Marvel movies is it's own continuity, and if this reboot is apart of that then the change does not bug me at all.

 

[80sboy]

Is the race of the person truly important to this character?

If not, then it shouldn't matter what colour the person is, whether they are black, white or even blue!

Yeah, but an established character is an established character, you can't go back and change such details just because the medium use to exclude other races and creeds at one point. I mean why can't they just create new ones?

Now Johnny Storm is a minor character in the Marvel universe. But what if they decided to change Spiderman into a Hispanic homosexual? First off, Peter Parker is an anglicized name, would you change that too? Also the character has a history of relationship with women...how do you explain that if the character is no longer a heterosexual?