So about all of this sexual assault...

[laggyteabag]

So unless you have been living under a rock, celebrity sexual assault is the big thing in the news.

About a month ago, a boatload of celebrities came forward about Harvey Weinstein.

A few weeks ago, a bunch of people came forward about Kevin Spacey.

A few days ago, people came forward about Louis CK.

Late last night, someone came forward about George Takei. He is the one that I am going to touch on, today.

Basically the story goes that in 1981, George Takei had a friend called Scott. They met up a few times, and one day, they both went back to George's house, they both had a few drinks, Scott passed out (heavily implied that he was drugged), and woke up with George trying to pull his underwear down, before he got up and left.

12 hours ago, George Takei was minding his own business. Now that this allegation has come forward, it has been reported by most major news outlets, and Twitter has basically exploded with comments such as:

Everyone even on Star Trek new George Takei was a bit creepy

Another pretentious, self-righteous, Hollywood D-bag bites the dust.

Hes guilty and disgusting and should be treated as such.

If you are a liberal you support George Takei the PROVEN rapist

Whats irking me is that everybody is just assuming that he is guilty, much like with Kevin Spacey, who's career is now in the gutter.

What happened to proof? Trials? Evidence? If he is guilty, then shame on him, he should know better, and he deserves to be punished accordingly, but no formal charges have been filed, yet people are treating him like a convicted rapist.

It would be super easy for me to contact a news outlet, say George Clooney sexually assaulted me after a night out 15 years ago, and then watch the storm ensue. How are you supposed to defend yourself from an accusation like that?

This whole Trial by Twitter thing is getting kinda ridiculous. Its one large echo chamber, where guilt is assumed, and its just plain wrong.

What is everybody's thoughts on this?

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

What? If you are liberal you support George ladededa? Man, some people love to reach through their own arseholes to find a connective smear these days. Even if he's guilty, it's like saying "if you like rock music, you support the lost prophets lead singer."

 

[Thaluikhain]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal thing. People who aren't judges or police or the like are free to assume he's guilty and treat him like he's a rapist, by which I mean say things about him on Twitter. Same as they can say he's working for the Illuminati or whatever. Or call a politician a traitor. If Takei should lose a job or something because of social media responses, that's another matter.

Also, people are assuming right away that he's guilty, which seems odd. Not that long ago, people were giving Cosby the benefit of 50+ doubts, Takei doesn't even get one...at least from some people. I suspect there are people hostile to Takei using this as an excuse.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

We're doing this cool new thing now where we don't automatically dismiss people who come forward with stories of abuse and don't stand to gain from them. Entertainment, politics, ...Tabletop RPGs. Though I might be one of the few plugged in there.

Honestly, Takei's been the only one I hadn't seen coming so far.

 

[Queen Michael]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal thing.

Yeah, exactly.

The way I see it, assuming that somebody's innocent until proven guilty is a good principle to have in court, but it's not reasonable to always act that way in daily life outside of court.

To use an extreme (and absurd) example: Let's say a guy is accused of shoplifting candy. He's been convicted for that crime hundreds and hundreds of time. All accusations against him of that crime have proven true without exception. He claims that he wasn't shoplifting, because it was actually his evil twin (which is the only possible defense he has). In this scenario, you wouldn't assume it was his evil twin until proven otherwise. You'd just go "yeah, right."

Or to put it less absurdly: Outside of court, I don't assume that until evidence has been shown, accusers are always liars. Because I know that the world doesn't actually work like that. Instead, I acknowledge that I don't know enough about the situation to tell whether somebody is guilty or not.

EDIT: Okay, I just found the perfect way of putting it. That somebody is a rapist is something I won't hold to be definitely true until I see some form of evidence. But that somebody is maliciously trying to tarnish the name of an innocent man with rape allegations in order to gain from it... That's also an accusation that requires evidence.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Well, on the "bright side" it's not like Takei has much of a carreer nowadays. I'm sure he's mostly just coasting on royalties.

The irony of this situation is that this whole #MeToo campaign was set up for people who have suffered sexual abuse or harrassment to come forward and speak out against those in a position of power abusing it. And now the #MeToo has become quite powerful itself.

 

[Saelune]

Honestly, this has all been bothering me alot cause well, look, I want good to prevail. I want those who did wrong, especially against others to not just get away with it. I dont want to discourage people speaking out when they are wronged...

But people are terrible in all sorts of ways. I hate every knowingly false accuser, cause they are ruining innocent people, both innocent people they accuse, and the credibility of real victims who do speak out.

I also acknowledge the bias. Its easy to believe that a person you dont like did something bad. Alot harder to believe or accept someone you like doing wrong. I know I really want to believe that Takei is innocent, that Spacey is innocent, but if they arent, they shouldnt get to go unpunished.

I just wished we lived in a just society. We dont. Even if Takei is guilty, I think it is wrong to have him get punished but not someone like Trump.

Another issue is where is the line of forgiveness? I mean, some acts are unforgivable, but what about lesser wrongful acts? What if someone does own up and apologize? When does it count? When does it not?

People are prone to bandwagoning. To throwing others under the bus. Even if Takei is guilty, how many who 'knew' really just hate gay people? Or just hate Takei and want to add fuel to a fire?

Even Cosby, I am sure many of his accusers are liars and know it, and that hurts the credibility of those not lying, who dared to speak out.

We honestly need to be open-minded but cautiously skeptical. We need to try to really consider what we know, what we dont know, and why we think or want to think what we do.

I hope every guilty person gets fairly punished, be it rapists, assaulters, or false accusers. I want the innocent to come out ok, be it victims of sexual assault or rape, or victims of false accusations. But who knows anymore?

 

[laggyteabag]

What? If you are liberal you support George ladededa? Man, some people love to reach through their own arseholes to find a connective smear these days.

I think its because George has been a very vocal liberal voice against Trump. I can imagine a lot of people are happy to see him in this predicament.

Well, on the "bright side" it's not like Takei has much of a carreer nowadays. I'm sure he's mostly just coasting on royalties.

Oh yeah, almost certainly. I can't imagine that he is doing much these days, other than the occasional job, or an appearance on some talk or radio show.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I just wished we lived in a just society. We dont. Even if Takei is guilty, I think it is wrong to have him get punished but not someone like Trump.

There's also the whole thing with Netflix, where they cancelled House of Cards due to allegations against Spacey, but they have another show starring a guy accused of four attempted rapes, and they're just ignoring that.

 

[Saelune]

I just wished we lived in a just society. We dont. Even if Takei is guilty, I think it is wrong to have him get punished but not someone like Trump.

There's also the whole thing with Netflix, where they cancelled House of Cards due to allegations against Spacey, but they have another show starring a guy accused of four attempted rapes, and they're just ignoring that.

Who?

 

[Thaluikhain]

There's also the whole thing with Netflix, where they cancelled House of Cards due to allegations against Spacey, but they have another show starring a guy accused of four attempted rapes, and they're just ignoring that.

Netflix said it was a coincidence that they were ending the show then, which might have been true for all I know.

Also, people are assuming right away that he's guilty, which seems odd. Not that long ago, people were giving Cosby the benefit of 50+ doubts, Takei doesn't even get one...at least from some people. I suspect there are people hostile to Takei using this as an excuse.

You have to remember both Spacey and Takei sexually assaulted men, and is thus 200 times more icky and gross to the common person

as opposed to powerful men taking advantage of women under their thumb which is a tuesday (and pretty much the dream for every working class man forever)

I had overlooked that, yeah.

 

[Catnip1024]

So are we gonna have to stop watching Star Trek now, too? Gorrammit, if only there had been some other sci-fi about a starship team exploring the galaxy that we could switch to instead...

There's also the whole thing with Netflix, where they cancelled House of Cards due to allegations against Spacey, but they have another show starring a guy accused of four attempted rapes, and they're just ignoring that.

The inconsistency across the board is ludicrous. Weinstein and Spacey are cut loose, but Polanski is still part of the Academy despite refusing to face an actual criminal trial?

 

[Erttheking]

My mother is one of the most kind and supporting people in my life. She thinks white people and black people shouldn't marry and that contraception is given to black people because the ones doing it don't want black people to breed.

People fucking suck. We're a bunch of animals that learned how to make tools and we're acting like we're somehow above the base impulses of other animals when we're really not.

I hope the accusations against Takei aren't true, I really do, but I'm not the type of person who dismisses every single sexual assault accusation as a gold digger because I find it easier to live a comfortable lie.

But you just know plenty of people are going to jump on this when they're the type of person that's more than comfortable calling every woman who comes forward a lying harlot who's just trying to ruin an honest man's life. Why let hypocrisy get in the way of shitting on the man who criticized the incompetent president you voted for?

EDIT: Well, Takei has responded and denied the accusation.

https://i.imgur.com/VqPbjki.png

I really, REALLY hope he's telling the truth.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Pfft. Trials are boring and take too long. An accusation is all the proof I need that (this person I hate is disgusting and everyone like him should be locked away)/(the "other side" is trying to destroy this upstanding person I admire) [choose one]. The court of public opinion shall decide!

 

[Thaluikhain]

The inconsistency across the board is ludicrous. Weinstein and Spacey are cut loose, but Polanski is still part of the Academy despite refusing to face an actual criminal trial?

You'll also note that there are people who campaign about sex crimes who don't see a problem working with Polanski. It's somehow not the same when it is someone they know personally, or that can help their career. I daresay that some of them genuinely believe in it, it's not just a PR stunt for them, but they just can't or won't grasp that one of them is one of the people they are opposing.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, Takei has responded and denied the accusation.

https://i.imgur.com/VqPbjki.png

I really, REALLY hope he's telling the truth.

George Takei is a man who called another guy a douchebag in the best and most decent kind of way. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I just wished we lived in a just society. We dont. Even if Takei is guilty, I think it is wrong to have him get punished but not someone like Trump.

There's also the whole thing with Netflix, where they cancelled House of Cards due to allegations against Spacey, but they have another show starring a guy accused of four attempted rapes, and they're just ignoring that.

Who?

I think it was the one who played that stoner guy. I'm not sure on the details though, I only heard about it due to the Spacey accusations. But it seems like only the people caught in the #MeToo crosshairs get dog-piled and dealt with swiftly by the media, while perpertrators who aren't just get ignored.

And honestly, if Netflix were to cancel every show that had a cast member with similar skeletons in their closet... Yeah. I doubt they're going to pursue this further, and only deal with it if it's all over the media, like with Kevin Spacey.

 

[stroopwafel]

Okay, I just found the perfect way of putting it. That somebody is a rapist is something I won't hold to be definitely true until I see some form of evidence. But that somebody is maliciously trying to tarnish the name of an innocent man with rape allegations in order to gain from it... That's also an accusation that requires evidence.

Fact is that false accusations assassinate someone's name and character while the accuser is most often given the benefit of the doubt. That has been true throughout all of history but espescially in the current age of social media witch hunts and regular media's hypocritical herd mentality. Even if proven that the accusations were false the stigma will remain and the damage has been done.

I personally put false accusations in the same category as rape and murder. Even in Christianity if you read Dante's Inferno the worst layer of Hell was actually reserved for liars of a similar stature. The lustful were fairly minor offenders but this blew up during the Victorian age that we now seem to have a resurgence of.

Anyways this whole nontroversy has taken such ridiculous proportions that it will backfire sooner or later and cause severe word inflation of actual rape charges. People indulge in seeing famous people burned at the stake by hypocritical media pundits but the waters are muddied to such an extent that it will soon lose any moderate sympathizers. The more you throw around serious allegations like 'assault' and 'rape' and the more unsubstantiated they prove to be the less meaning they will ultimately have. Espescially when they become part of a particularly insidious climate. No court would be able to claim independence.

 

[Saelune]

I just wished we lived in a just society. We dont. Even if Takei is guilty, I think it is wrong to have him get punished but not someone like Trump.

There's also the whole thing with Netflix, where they cancelled House of Cards due to allegations against Spacey, but they have another show starring a guy accused of four attempted rapes, and they're just ignoring that.

Who?

I think it was the one who played that stoner guy. I'm not sure on the details though, I only heard about it due to the Spacey accusations. But it seems like only the people caught in the #MeToo crosshairs get dog-piled and dealt with swiftly by the media, while perpertrators who aren't just get ignored.

And honestly, if Netflix were to cancel every show that had a cast member with similar skeletons in their closet... Yeah. I doubt they're going to pursue this further, and only deal with it if it's all over the media, like with Kevin Spacey.

Well, as I was suggesting in my own post, there is a huge imbalance of 'justice'. O'Reily only got in trouble when it actually cost Fox money, and they quickly scooped him back up when they thought no one was looking. Trump is President.

Plus again, bias is a major concern. I know I am trying my hardest to not let bias cloud my judgement though, but its not easy. I mean, nothing of Takei's life suggests he could do such a thing and lie about it...but if he could lie about it, then thats a scary thought. But I also expect bias to work against him when as others pointed out, are more willing to use this as an excuse against a gay man while not caring about the suffering of women.

These issues are extremely complicated for everyone.