So apparently JonTron is a racist

[Erttheking]

> "Let's have an honest conversation about race."

> Literally says wealthy blacks commit more crimes than poor whites with absolutely no basis in actual fact.

You know, honest! /s

So stating facts is dishonest? I want off this planet!

Ok, I have lost track of how many times I have asked for a fucking source for that claim, and no one, NO ONE (Including you), has delivered. So when you actually back up your words with facts, then you can act like people are jumping on JonTron for just saying facts they don't like. After. Not until.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

There aren't particularly large numbers of Muslims emigrating to Europe either, but don't let that stop you.

I think over 2% of population in less than 1 year is enough to be classified as particularly large.

What year would that be, I'd like to see the numbers.

That would be 2016, though granted it is an unusual year due to politican events in europe. Other years may be less. Still a significant number though.

Got a source for that? I'm having a hard time finding one.

 

[Avnger]

Is anyone actually surprised by this? He has a picture of the git that played Kramer on his wall. You know that comedian that lost his mind on stage and proceeded to yell he's a ****** on stage repeatedly.

Liking a comedian who said a "bad word" makes you a nazi.

Keep those claims going, please. they get more ludicrous every time, its very entertaining.

First: On what plane of reality is a grown man having a complete meltdown going on a non-comedic rant including a racial slur numerous times count as "a comedian who said a 'bad word?'" That is one hell of a historical rewrite of events taking place in your perspective.

Second: No one called him a Nazi due to him liking Kramer. Please point out a single instance of anyone in this thread saying "likeing a comedian who said a 'bad word' makes you a Nazi". I'll wait. (Actually, I won't because it didn't happen). Is this supposed to be honest discourse to you?

Third: The admiration of a comedian who went on a racist rant is an entirely fair characteristic to bring up when discussing a person who was spouting racist talking points. It could be completely unrelated, or it could simply be another part of the whole. That's why it's being talked about.

> "Let's have an honest conversation about race."

> Literally says wealthy blacks commit more crimes than poor whites with absolutely no basis in actual fact.

You know, honest! /s

So stating facts is dishonest? I want off this planet!

Like @errtheking said, source or gtfo. The only person in this thread to attempt to provide evidence (which was shown to not back the statement at all) backing this so-far unsubstantiated dogwhistling was the one who immediately went on the perfect example of an extreme alt-right rant including "cuck" and everything.

edit: @Skatologist you might be getting a notification cause I messed up a quote box. Sorry >_>

 

[McMarbles]

There aren't particularly large numbers of Muslims emigrating to Europe either, but don't let that stop you.

I think over 2% of population in less than 1 year is enough to be classified as particularly large.

What year would that be, I'd like to see the numbers.

That would be 2016, though granted it is an unusual year due to politican events in europe. Other years may be less. Still a significant number though.

Got a source for that? I'm having a hard time finding one.

You're not going to get one. At least not a reputable one.

 

[Parasondox]

This has been going on for 15 pages? Wow.

 

[McMarbles]

First: On what plane of reality is a grown man having a complete meltdown going on a non-comedic rant including a racial slur numerous times count as "a comedian who said a 'bad word?'" That is one hell of a historical rewrite of events taking place in your perspective.

It is a bit weird to see bigots insisting that bigotry somehow requires a verbal explosion of slurs immediately followed by an act of violence. And even then, there's a 50/50 shot they'll still say such a person is being unfairly persecuted by SJWs and the "regressive left." They see bigotry in everything except bigotry.

Who's the real racist... the racist, or the one criticising the racist's racist ideas?

(It's the first one.)

 

[Kolby Jack]

So I'll admit I haven't read the last... 14 or so pages of crazy-long essays and manifestos and stuff because fuck that noise, but I just watched Jon's unlisted reaction video to all this controversy, and I think I'm okay to move past this. I still think Jon is ignorant about the reality of the situations he was speaking about, but when he actually had time to articulate his viewpoints it was a lot more coherent and a lot less racist-sounding. That, plus the fact that it seems he's going to avoid politics from now on is enough for me.

 

[bluegate]

Just some extra information, not sure if this has been posted already;

http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/03/23/yooka-laylee-jontron-jon-jafari-removed/

Apparently, JonTron's voice work will be patched out of Yooka Laylee in an update because of all of this.

 

[CaitSeith]

Just some extra information, not sure if this has been posted already;

http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/03/23/yooka-laylee-jontron-jon-jafari-removed/

Apparently, JonTron's voice work will be patched out of Yooka Laylee in an update because of all of this.

Oh, man! That's too bad.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I haven't looked into this mess much. I saw this thread be made a while ago but since I have no interest in this case I just clicked away. I return now since I read the article about him being removed as a voice actor from a game, however, so here I am making a post. I don't even really care about the game he is being removed from (more of a crash banticoot fan as far as older platformers go) but I just had to say it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough if not better than whoever may replace him. I'm no fan of this guy but the few videos I have watched of his have been very amusing and well done. I don't care if he's a nazi supporter or whatever. I just want good content being made.

 

[Baffle]

I just had to say it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough

I don't think that's horrible at all. We're judged by those we associate with. If I went to the pub with the ex-lead singer of the Lost Prophets, people would assume I was okay with the idea of paedophilia (I went for low-hanging fruit here, my next example is much more subtle); if I went on a date with Hitler, to the cinema, people would probably think I wasn't overly bothered by the whole gassing the Jews thing.

People are tarnished (or raised up) by those they associate with, because you're tacitly endorsing their behaviour to some degree. Sure, they could have left him in and just added a line in the credits to state that they in no way endorse his weird racist views, but no one reads the credits.

Or, maybe, they felt strongly, on a personal level, that the guy they initially hired to do the thing, was not the guy who subsequently said bad things, and realised they'd made a mistake.

 

[CaitSeith]

it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough if not better than whoever may replace him.

Do you even know who will be replacing him? How do you know Jon did a better job? And he didn't lose a job. The game is already finished and ready to be shipped with JonTron's voice intact (until it gets patched out).

 

[shrekfan246]

but I just had to say it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough if not better than whoever may replace him. I'm no fan of this guy but the few videos I have watched of his have been very amusing and well done. I don't care if he's a nazi supporter or whatever. I just want good content being made.

You know that's generally how all employment opportunities go, right?

Like, if I were working at Wal-Mart, I wouldn't be able to stand outside of Wal-Mart shouting about how people should shop elsewhere because Wal-Mart supports child labor [http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/lwp/NLC_childlabor.html] and actually expect to keep my job.

Likewise, if I were, say, a teacher, I shouldn't expect to be able to say how awesome it would be if the age of consent was lowered to 13 and, you guessed it, expect to keep my job.

Actions have consequences, especially when you're a person who's in the public eye. I know the fact that Trump got elected has made everyone believe that they can just say whatever they want now and nobody can hold them accountable for it, but that's just straight up not true.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I just had to say it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough

I don't think that's horrible at all. We're judged by those we associate with. If I went to the pub with the ex-lead singer of the Lost Prophets, people would assume I was okay with the idea of paedophilia (I went for low-hanging fruit here, my next example is much more subtle); if I went on a date with Hitler, to the cinema, people would probably think I wasn't overly bothered by the whole gassing the Jews thing.

People are tarnished (or raised up) by those they associate with, because you're tacitly endorsing their behaviour to some degree. Sure, they could have left him in and just added a line in the credits to state that they in no way endorse his weird racist views, but no one reads the credits.

Or, maybe, they felt strongly, on a personal level, that the guy they initially hired to do the thing, was not the guy who subsequently said bad things, and realised they'd made a mistake.

Not sure who Lost Prophets are, but no, I wouldn't assume that just because of something a friend of yours did, that you yourself are guilty by association. That's illogical.

I do think that they put either their personal feelings or those of their fans before the integrity of their work, which is my issue here.

it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough if not better than whoever may replace him.

Do you even know who will be replacing him? How do you know Jon did a better job? And he didn't lose a job. The game is already finished and ready to be shipped with JonTron's voice intact (until it gets patched out).

From what I've seen of the guy he is very funny and clearly was sufficient until this incident occurred. That's all one needs to know. If he would have still had the job today without this incident, clearly he was fitting enough.

but I just had to say it is horrible that someone can't be honest with his views and not lose a job that he clearly can do sufficiently enough if not better than whoever may replace him. I'm no fan of this guy but the few videos I have watched of his have been very amusing and well done. I don't care if he's a nazi supporter or whatever. I just want good content being made.

You know that's generally how all employment opportunities go, right?

Like, if I were working at Wal-Mart, I wouldn't be able to stand outside of Wal-Mart shouting about how people should shop elsewhere because Wal-Mart supports child labor [http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/lwp/NLC_childlabor.html] and actually expect to keep my job.

Likewise, if I were, say, a teacher, I shouldn't expect to be able to say how awesome it would be if the age of consent was lowered to 13 and, you guessed it, expect to keep my job.

Actions have consequences, especially when you're a person who's in the public eye. I know the fact that Trump got elected has made everyone believe that they can just say whatever they want now and nobody can hold them accountable for it, but that's just straight up not true.

This is not what happened here, wallmart would have needed to go dig up a podcast you had with some dudes online, which doesn't ever happen since most walmart shoppers don't really care about this stuff. Same as far as the vast majority of platformer game fans go as well.

Ages of consent vary by nation so it depends on where you live. Where I grew up it was 15 so I don't think it's that absurd. What is absurd is to lose your job because of an opinion that doesn't even relate to, never mind prevent you from accomplishing, your job.


I'm not sure what action this is supposed to be that he is guilty for. You can't just fire people for having wrong-think in their brains and maintain the image of a rational actor.

 

[shrekfan246]

I'm not sure what action this is supposed to be that he is guilty for. You can't just fire people for having wrong-think in their brains and maintain the image of a rational actor.

Except you can. That's the whole point.

You may not like it, but employers are well within their rights to fire people who are openly and loudly going to give them a bad image. And, despite you apparently not seeming to think so, shouting about how black people are genetically predisposed toward committing crimes and how immigrants need to be stopped so that the purity of "white culture" can be preserved, gives a bad name to those who continue to willingly associate with you.

Like it or not, Jon is a celebrity. Celebrities need to watch what they say in public forums if they don't want to face consequences for their actions. This has happened to Hollywood actors for literal decades. Hell, it's the entire reason Tim Allen has been throwing huge shitfits lately about how Hollywood is exactly like 1930's Germany.

 

[Avnger]

I'm not sure what action this is supposed to be that he is guilty for. You can't just fire people for having wrong-think in their brains and maintain the image of a rational actor.

Publicly espousing racist talking points then essentially doubling down on them (again publicly) is not "wrong-think in their brains." If JonTron had only been thinking those things, nothing would ever have happened. Instead, he *took an action* to spread those views over the entire internet. Everyone else is allowed to then also *take an action* in response; otherwise, you are removing others' ability to partake in free speech.

The stupidity one spouts in public has societal consequences. "Free speech" does not mean free from repercussions.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I'm not sure what action this is supposed to be that he is guilty for. You can't just fire people for having wrong-think in their brains and maintain the image of a rational actor.

Publicly espousing racist talking points then essentially doubling down on them (again publicly) is not "wrong-think in their brains." If JonTron had only been thinking those things, nothing would ever have happened. Instead, he *took an action* to spread those views over the entire internet. Everyone else is allowed to then also *take an action* in response; otherwise, you are removing others' ability to partake in free speech.

The stupidity one spouts in public has societal consequences. "Free speech" does not mean free from repercussions.

If he was so bad, someone would have already complained about him discriminating against them. When you have everyone suddenly realize that he thinks these things after so many years of following the guy, I think it is pretty safe to say he isn't taking any sort of action that affects anything of import on behalf of his beliefs.


I really don't like this obsession with consequences but if you want to frame this issue through consequences, I guess you can interpret me as not saying that the game developer who removed him from the game doesn't have the right to do so or shouldn't be allowed to do it, but that as a consequence of these consequences, I have now begun to consider them much more lowly than in the past. Certainly, you can be free to compromise your games to preserve your politics and your social group, but I am a gamer and not a civil rights activist so I primarily care about weather games are being compromised or not.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I'm not sure what action this is supposed to be that he is guilty for. You can't just fire people for having wrong-think in their brains and maintain the image of a rational actor.

Publicly espousing racist talking points then essentially doubling down on them (again publicly) is not "wrong-think in their brains." If JonTron had only been thinking those things, nothing would ever have happened. Instead, he *took an action* to spread those views over the entire internet. Everyone else is allowed to then also *take an action* in response; otherwise, you are removing others' ability to partake in free speech.

The stupidity one spouts in public has societal consequences. "Free speech" does not mean free from repercussions.

If he was so bad, someone would have already complained about him discriminating against them. When you have everyone suddenly realize that he thinks these things after so many years of following the guy, I think it is pretty safe to say he isn't taking any sort of action that affects anything of import on behalf of his beliefs.


I really don't like this obsession with consequences but if you want to frame this issue through consequences, I guess you can interpret me as not saying that the game developer who removed him from the game doesn't have the right to do so or shouldn't be allowed to do it, but that as a consequence of these consequences, I have now begun to consider them much more lowly than in the past. Certainly, you can be free to compromise your games to preserve your politics and your social group, but I am a gamer and not a civil rights activist so I primarily care about weather games are being compromised or not.

Suddenly realize? You know he got fired from Grumps partly due to shit like this, right?

And if Jon's already-paid-for voice acting in Yooka-Laylee being removed "compromises" the game, so be it. I mean, they cut Peter Dinklage completely out of Destiny and it did okay.

 

[Baffle]

Not sure who Lost Prophets are, but no, I wouldn't assume that just because of something a friend of yours did, that you yourself are guilty by association. That's illogical.

Lost Prophets are/were a band very popular around the early 2000s, but maintained popularity, mostly with youths, into this decade. The lead singer, Ian Watkins, was convicted of raping a child under 13, and intent to rape a one-year-old. The reason he isn't being picked up to do this year's Christmas duet with Kylie is that no one wants to be associated with a massive paedophile and rapist (also, he's serving a 30-year prison sentence). Same reasoning applies, though obviously Mr Tron is a racist, not a rapist. Or a paedophile.

 

[Saelune]

I'm not sure what action this is supposed to be that he is guilty for. You can't just fire people for having wrong-think in their brains and maintain the image of a rational actor.

Publicly espousing racist talking points then essentially doubling down on them (again publicly) is not "wrong-think in their brains." If JonTron had only been thinking those things, nothing would ever have happened. Instead, he *took an action* to spread those views over the entire internet. Everyone else is allowed to then also *take an action* in response; otherwise, you are removing others' ability to partake in free speech.

The stupidity one spouts in public has societal consequences. "Free speech" does not mean free from repercussions.

If he was so bad, someone would have already complained about him discriminating against them. When you have everyone suddenly realize that he thinks these things after so many years of following the guy, I think it is pretty safe to say he isn't taking any sort of action that affects anything of import on behalf of his beliefs.


I really don't like this obsession with consequences but if you want to frame this issue through consequences, I guess you can interpret me as not saying that the game developer who removed him from the game doesn't have the right to do so or shouldn't be allowed to do it, but that as a consequence of these consequences, I have now begun to consider them much more lowly than in the past. Certainly, you can be free to compromise your games to preserve your politics and your social group, but I am a gamer and not a civil rights activist so I primarily care about weather games are being compromised or not.

Suddenly realize? You know he got fired from Grumps partly due to shit like this, right?

And if Jon's already-paid-for voice acting in Yooka-Laylee being removed "compromises" the game, so be it. I mean, they cut Peter Dinklage completely out of Destiny and it did okay.

As I said elsehwhere, I am pretty sure Jon quit, not got fired. Based on many many many things he has said throughout Game Grumps, he expressed alot of dissatisfaction with being a LPer, and alot of talk about New York and focusing on his channel again. I could be wrong, but it makes alot of sense in hindsight.

And apparently he was a voice because he backed enough money for it rather than it being a job, so it seems a bit less fair since they are sort of reneging on a promise rather than firing someone they dont want to work with.