So, apparently WW is pretty good.

[bastardofmelbourne]

Eh I have yet to see anything that truly makes the New 52 that abysmmal.

Red Hood and the Outlaws. They turn Starfire into a dull, lifeless bimbo.

1 thing out of the 100s of comic book lines in Superheroes. And I thought they retconned that within the New 52, I remember seeing issues of Starfire where she looks like a normal girl that's not a bimbo within the New 52.

There were a lot of New 52 titles that sucked ass. That's just what happens when you have 52 titles launching all at the same time; some of them are gonna suck. This was actually DC's plan; they axed the six worst titles every few months and launched six more from the backup list.

Some of the ones that started out good turned to poop a few years later when the writer/artist team moved on. Like Wonder Woman, for example. Thirty-something issues of plot-dense mythological superhero fantasy with a quirky art twist, then Azzarello and Cliff Chiang left and the replacement writer/artist team decided that what Wonder Woman really needed was more continuity baggage and ugly feminist stereotypes.

Spoiler: To explain.

Azzarello and Chiang had a plotline going with all the discarded male children of the Amazons (see aforementioned sex murders) being rehabilitated on Themyscira by Diana, who considered them essentially her brothers. The new writer decided that this was stupid, and therefore had a previously-unseen ugly old crone-Amazon pop up from behind the curtain to ***** about how Diana wasn't around to protect Themyscira from random monsters because she was too busy being a member of the Justice League and also a god, and then had said bitchy crone lady use witchcraft to create an evil clone of Diana out of a cauldron (yep) and then sent that evil clone off to go kill all the Amazon's male cousins, so that Diana and her evil clone could fight and so that the writer could go "and the evil clone's name is Donna Troy!" while winking so hard that they gave themselves a stroke.

So, kill off the interesting plotlines left by the previous team because nyeh, then replace them with a shitty plotline about an evil clone made by black magic because an old hag was pissed off that there were penises on her island. Very feminist.

 

[Dragonlayer]

I have one very important question that will determine whether or not I will give this film a chance.

Are the German soldiers portrayed as a competent and legitimate threat, or as cackling yet utterly ineffectual proto-Nazis who are going to use radioactive moon-rock super-weapons to blow up the world and exist only to be effortlessly beaten up by Wonder Woman?

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

And that's why I hate that fact that apperently she's the only famous one because she's known outside of Comic Books, and the casual mainstream audiance don't even bother looking at Female Heroes and Villains that are not female versions of established characters, I mean just look at the list of Female Charcaters in Comic Books that are relevent to their universe:

Oh indeed.

Why oh why can the filthy, mainstream, fake nerd casuals not appreciate the works of art that are Boom Boom and Petunia Pig?

Hey, I like Boom Boom. Back in the 90s she had a decent arc where she took care of and tried to rehabilitate Sabertooth after Wolverine poked a hole in his brain and reduced him to a feral/mentally incapacitated state like a giant dog despite everyone telling her she was wrong to do it.

Spoiler

Of course it led to the reveal that he was just pretending and he gutted Psylocke in front of her but villains don't tend to stay "good". Sabertooth escially.

It might have been a really terrible arc though, I was young and didn't know better.

 

[Laughing Man]

I have one very important question that will determine whether or not I will give this film a chance.

Are the German soldiers portrayed as a competent and legitimate threat, or as cackling yet utterly ineffectual proto-Nazis who are going to use radioactive moon-rock super-weapons to blow up the world and exist only to be effortlessly beaten up by Wonder Woman?

Well since you're in the wrong era I can say for sure they ain't Nazi or Proto-Nazis. If what you are asking is are the Germans in this movie portrayed in the same way as Hydra's soldiers are In Captain America, i.e all sleak, highly weaponized, black shining armour fighting for the 'cause', then no, they are portrayed as what they were an army made of hungry, battle tired people fighting for a cause they neither really know about or understand.

As for the movie itself, slow paced, not anywhere enough action, when their was action it was pretty decent with the close quarters stuff in Veld (mid way through the movie) being amazing. Not grim dark like the previous DC movies it had one or two dialogues that were a bit cringy but nothing anywhere near as stupid as MARTHA and after the utter cluster fuck of a plot form B vs S it was nice to have a simple straight forward bad guy vs good guy plot.

Only really down side being it's another DC movie that ends with an utter cluster fuck of lighting, explosion, debris and carnage all taking place at night and that the action was a bit too little and a bit too spaced out and over way way to quick.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I will also say that now is the time for someone to start pushing for a Wonder Woman game:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/it-s-way-past-time-for-wonder-woman-to-headline-her-own-1795695175

Seriously, just make an E10-rated Bayonetta/DMC, make it a holiday release, put in a Gal Gadot skin as a pre-order bonus, and BAM!, instant money.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

How is that third act remotely defensible?

It wasn't merely bad and generic like a lot of CBM final battles are; it achieved a nadir not even achieved by BvS or Suicide Squad. Wonder Woman pulls the type of "I believe in myself" power up you'd find in Gurren Lagann, only played as super serious drama. It's the aesthetic and climax of Scott Pilgrim played entirely straight.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

How is that third act remotely defensible?

It wasn't merely bad and generic like a lot of CBM final battles are; it achieved a nadir not even achieved by BvS or Suicide Squad. Wonder Woman pulls the type of "I believe in myself" power up you'd find in Gurren Lagann, only played as super serious drama. It's the aesthetic and climax of Scott Pilgrim played entirely straight.

Shut up, it's empowering to women. Kindly take your legitimate issues with the film back to your basement you dirty misogynist.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I have one very important question that will determine whether or not I will give this film a chance.

Are the German soldiers portrayed as a competent and legitimate threat, or as cackling yet utterly ineffectual proto-Nazis who are going to use radioactive moon-rock super-weapons to blow up the world and exist only to be effortlessly beaten up by Wonder Woman?

Spoiler

The main German villain, General Ludendorff, does seem to come across as someone who desperately wants to be the Red Skull - even going so far as to kill one of his captains who makes a perfectly legitimate observation - an act I'm fairly confident in the German Army of the Kaiser's time would have been a one way trip to the gallows by way of a swift court martial. However he and Dr. Poison are outliers (seriously; one weak scene is the pair of them doing this evil laugh thing that's straight out of the Boris and Natasha Badinov playbook) and while it is cathartic to see them fight to liberate a village in France I personally never got the impression that the poor bastards in the other trench were mustache twirlers.

Again, that's only my impression based on my first showing. I'm going again and perhaps with a more critical eye I'll pick up more but I like the idea that the movie closes on.

How is that third act remotely defensible?

It wasn't merely bad and generic like a lot of CBM final battles are; it achieved a nadir not even achieved by BvS or Suicide Squad. Wonder Woman pulls the type of "I believe in myself" power up you'd find in Gurren Lagann, only played as super serious drama. It's the aesthetic and climax of Scott Pilgrim played entirely straight.

Really?

Spoiler

My take away from that was Ares trying to turn her against mankind by showing her just how low we could go, chemical warfare on the Western Front is as good an example as any, but instead she tells him that mankind is all those things, but is also capable of being noble and great and that it's worth defending because of those virtues.

However it does feel like an arc that should have played out over the last two acts of the film with a bit more meat to it rather than it's very compressed presentation in the movie proper.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Just watched it.

Not a great movie (too many problems which sadly could have been easily addressed), but a good movie. I enjoyed it.

The DCEU Wonder Woman is a better Superman than DCEU Superman.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Really?

Spoiler

My take away from that was Ares trying to turn her against mankind by showing her just how low we could go, chemical warfare on the Western Front is as good an example as any, but instead she tells him that mankind is all those things, but is also capable of being noble and great and that it's worth defending because of those virtues.

However it does feel like an arc that should have played out over the last two acts of the film with a bit more meat to it rather than it's very compressed presentation in the movie proper.

No need to explain to me the broad strokes character arc present in 99% of blockbusters like I'm five. I get the why of it.

Spoiler

What catapulted it into "unusually terrible" territory was how the special effects broke down from the usual "hero fights CGI monster/particle effects" mess of a finale to Wonder Woman posing in front of conspicuous green screen and doing a Flash-esque stop-motion rampage that reminded me of Speed Racer on a dime. It looked really bad to the point of becoming comical like they ran out of their budget at that exact moment onward, only, this was played up as the "big, cathartic dramatic moment".

Also, I was sick of the "seemingly harmless ally is actually villain" twist by the time Zootopia rolled it out. The movie operates on children's movie level tropes, and that's whatever, but I'm sick of adults pretending this type of simplistic moralizing isn't condescending toward anyone over the age of nine. Humanity contains both good and bad? Wow, no more meaningful nuance available beyond that required.

 

[hermes]

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT'S GOOD NOW [https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/30/15715322/wonder-woman-rotten-tomatoes-score]

I am so happy to have mainstream validation you guys

woops my insecurity is showing

I thought current third wave femenists these days already hate Wonder Woman.

...source?

It's not exactly a consensus opinion, but yes, I have seen ostensibly-feminist arguments against Wonder Woman for various reasons, ranging from "she's too attractive" to "she glorifies and fetishizes a masculine concept of violence" to "miniskirts."

It's mostly just people trying to get attention by attacking a character who's generally considered to be a lodestone for positive portrayals of women in comic books.

Edit: Not to say that comic book writers always get Wonder Woman right, (looking at you, Frank Miller) but overall, Wonder Woman is A Good Thing for feminism and for female representation in the comic book industry.

Yeah it seems feminist critique has less to do with wonder woman

And more to do with how she's written and portrayed by male writers

Frank Miller is a hack

New 52 sucks

Etc etc

Eh I have yet to see anything that truly makes the New 52 that abysmmal.

It would be easier to list the things in 52 that were not abysmal:
- Swamp Thing
- Animal Man
- The first arc of Wonder Woman

That is about it...

 

[ckriley]

I have one very important question that will determine whether or not I will give this film a chance.

Are the German soldiers portrayed as a competent and legitimate threat, or as cackling yet utterly ineffectual proto-Nazis who are going to use radioactive moon-rock super-weapons to blow up the world and exist only to be effortlessly beaten up by Wonder Woman?

Snip

As for the movie itself, slow paced, not anywhere enough action...

Snip

I'm not sure if you're American or not, but the above snippet from your post actually gives me hope for the movie. I know that sounds snarky, but here's the thing: most Americans (of which I am one) like their movies obnoxiously loud with lots of action, bright colors, louder music and as little character development as possible. All in a very short running time.

That's why 3D is so popular in the US. Literally pop-up pictures.

So, every time I hear someone say "It's too slow. Not enough action," I know that 90% of the time it will be an outstanding movie.

 

[Laughing Man]

I have one very important question that will determine whether or not I will give this film a chance.

Are the German soldiers portrayed as a competent and legitimate threat, or as cackling yet utterly ineffectual proto-Nazis who are going to use radioactive moon-rock super-weapons to blow up the world and exist only to be effortlessly beaten up by Wonder Woman?

Snip

As for the movie itself, slow paced, not anywhere enough action...

Snip

I'm not sure if you're American or not, but the above snippet from your post actually gives me hope for the movie. I know that sounds snarky, but here's the thing: most Americans (of which I am one) like their movies obnoxiously loud with lots of action, bright colors, louder music and as little character development as possible. All in a very short running time.

That's why 3D is so popular in the US. Literally pop-up pictures.

So, every time I hear someone say "It's too slow. Not enough action," I know that 90% of the time it will be an outstanding movie.

Nope not American, Scottish in fact so happy to see a fellow Scot in this movie but I have no issue with slow paced movies but end of the day WW is a Comic book Superhero movie so the expectation is that it is going to have a lot of action going on which this movie didn't have enough of, I would even go as far as to say the action was pretty hit and miss in terms of quality.

Their are two set piece fights in the movie that involved more believable one on one combat with a lot of very well done close quarters combat and they are both superb, especially the one at the half way point that has her on the front line before working her way through a town called Veld but the irony of this scene is that what starts well ends very poorly at the mid way point of the Veld fight the close quarters stuff gets dropped and the CGI assisted combat starts, she Hulks an armoured vehicle only the SFX are no where near any of the Hulk movies let alone some of the stuff he does in The Avengers movies and the fight ends with her literally ***** whipping a bunch of German soldiers and frankly it all looks very poor and quite cheap. The additional problem is that from this point on wards the fights are all SFX assisted to the same extent and while some of the stuff works quite a lot of it really doesn't.

Also on reflection the entire third act makes no real sense. In fact it is all a bit stupid.

Spoiler

She looses all faith in humanity, this is in turn reinforced by Ares who firstly tells her that she is the god killing weapon made to stop him and then tells her that in fact he isn't actually the one that makes men fight each other he instead just gives them ideas and allows them to do what they will with them and then secondly makes her what is quite a reasonable counter offer, lets remember that until a week before this she was part of a community who was aware of man but had decided to isolate itself from them, so big fucking whoop what happens to them. She then decides in a flash of an instant and with no apparent outside prompting that yeah she is going to defend man, kill Ares and once all is said and done and she wins using the power of... well from what I can tell the power just appears from deciding not to kill some bad person by dropping a tank on them (PS she was in a German base why the fuck where they using British tanks??) and yup once Ares is dead everyone just decides to stop fighting all of a sudden and start loving each other again.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

People simply accept one of the villains taking bumps of magic-cocaine with no explanation? Why isn't Dr. Poison mass-producing that shit if it gives regular joes super-strength lesser-than-but-still-on-par-with base Wonder Woman?

There's simply so many instances of, "Fuck you, that's why!" and the final battle is meaningless because not only is it never established what the combatants can or can't do and can or can't be hurt by, but characters gain new abilities seemingly at random. It's the "Nuh-uh! I was wearing my secret, bullet-proof invisible armor!" kid on the playground with a 100 million dollar budget.

 

[Tomeran]

Just saw it and I really dont see why people would praise it to the high heavens, unless the previous DC movies have lowered peoples expectations and finally seeing a DC movie that doesnt horribly suck is now the new definition of "good".

This movie really wasnt that good though. It wasnt horrible, it wasnt good. It was a solid "meh", a 2.5/5, a 5/10, a disheartened sigh of relief that perhaps you didnt completly waste your money on the movie tickets but that you didnt get a whooping bang for your buck either.

In essence, Gal Gadot did her job well. So did Chris Pine. That sort of saves it really. But the script , especiellyfor the later half of the movie, was...underwhelming, to put it lightly. There are enough plot holes here for three superhero movies, and some of the secondary characters are so badly done it gives off that "standard assembly line superhero movie"-feeling, where there's no interest whatsoever in actually providing quality.

So yeah, the positive reviews are puzzling. I like the entry of a strong female hero character and that she's getting her own movie, but they could've done a hellova lot better then this, surely. In the end, judging by the quality of the movie itself rather then the symbolic value of it, its nothing other then a rather dissapointing "average" experience.

 

[circularlogic88]

Just saw it. S'alright. Glad I saw it, but in no rush to see it again.

 

[Comic Sans]

I saw it this afternoon. I enjoyed it. It's not great by any stretch. The last act didn't really work for me, the final fight was eh, and I felt that slow motion was overused in some scenes. But on the whole I walked out feeling positive about it and still feel that way. I give it a solid B.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Eh I have yet to see anything that truly makes the New 52 that abysmmal.

One of the greatest travesties of the New 52. That and the raping Amazons, the entire Finch run, awful character re-imaginings (Like Mr. Freeze), the time compression, and a seemingly intentionally confusing continuity (Particularly Batman's and Green Lantern's). The New 52 was pretty bad.

It would be easier to list the things in 52 that were not abysmal:
- Swamp Thing
- Animal Man
- The first arc of Wonder Woman

That is about it...

Swamp Thing and Animal man somehow managed to hook me, despite my distate for zombies, gore, and horror. First Swamp Thing anything I've ever read and I loved it!

I also recall Aquaman and Batman and Robin being pretty good.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

On the topic of good New 52 series, the first volume of The Flash was pretty great. Awesome art, creative paneling, and the updated Rogues worked out pretty well.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Just saw it last night. Its only okay. Not great, but not unwatchable, which makes it the best of the DC movies. Always remember Wonder Woman is a huge success because the next best movie is Suicide Squad.

So while there are certainly less plotholes, editing problems, dead characters and rushed plot elements, its not as bad as the rest.
A solid C.