So, apparently WW is pretty good.

[bastardofmelbourne]

Moreover, like much of the movie, it doesn't make any sense. She grew up on an island of warriors, not pacifists. She embraced this ethos, seeking out training in how to make people die by the skillful application of specialized killing utensils. She must surely be aware of the concept of inflicting horrible injuries in battle; her chosen vocation in life revolves around it.

She grew up on an island of immortal warriors. When that bungee-jumping Amazon archer got shot in the belly, that was literally the first time Diana had seen anyone die.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Wonder Woman actually makes the first Captain America film look almost...insensitive, in retrospect. Like, Captain America is fighting in WW2, but there's no sign of the extermination camps or roving death squads. No Jewish refugees, half-starved and looking for lost family. No trenches filled with bodies. No comfort women. It's like he's fighting some sanitised, parallel war. He's not even fighting real Nazis; he's fighting some weird Nazi octopus science cult.

Whereas Wonder Woman, she comes off as even more innocent and naive than Captain America ever was, but as soon as they arrive in France she's walking past all the human shrapnel left in the wake of a world war, and Steve Trevor almost has to grab her and haul her along saying we can't help them right now, and that's the most heartbreaking part of it. This is a literal demigod, a lady who can bench-press a tank, and she's looking at a guy with no legs and processing the fact that there is just nothing she can do.

It really feels like a deconstruction of the first Captain America movie and the superheroes in war in general. It shows how powerless a superhero would be in a situation like war. It shows that the good guys are really the lesser of two evils at best and the complex of War. It doesn't go to far into those themes but I'm okay with that. My biggest problem with a lot of Deconstruction is they sometimes get to dark for their own good. Wonder woman still remembers it has to be a fun action movie at some point and it delivers on that.

Speaking of which the no man land scene is probably one of my favorite action scenes in a long time.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Whereas Wonder Woman, she comes off as even more innocent and naive than Captain America ever was, but as soon as they arrive in France she's walking past all the human shrapnel left in the wake of a world war, and Steve Trevor almost has to grab her and haul her along saying we can't help them right now, and that's the most heartbreaking part of it. This is a literal demigod, a lady who can bench-press a tank, and she's looking at a guy with no legs and processing the fact that there is just nothing she can do.

I found it rather darkly hilarious that she went straight from recoiling at the horrors of war to giving no quarter to anyone even vaguely in her vicinity.

Moreover, like much of the movie, it doesn't make any sense. She grew up on an island of warriors, not pacifists. She embraced this ethos, seeking out training in how to make people die by the skillful application of specialized killing utensils. She must surely be aware of the concept of inflicting horrible injuries in battle; her chosen vocation in life revolves around it.

If that's not enough, her visit to the trenches isn't even her first rodeo. She took part in the beach battle. She should know what maimed bodies look like; she and her fellow amazons created several literal boatloads of them.

I deeply suspect that feeling is partially an artefact of her old origin in which several of the Greek Goddesses blessed Diana with great gifts respective of their role in the Pantheon, and Aphrodite imbued her with beauty and love. However, raised as she was by an ancient martial order of dedicated protectors I suspect she feels that for a warrior to fall in battle, blade or bow in hand is quite different to innocent and unarmed men, women and children being driven from their homes and/or killed by a belligerent invader. She met the enemy on their terms: armed and looking them in the eye.

I felt like the scenes were out of sequence when...

Spoiler

Steve is telling the others about how she's looking to fight Ares because she's an Amazon who was made from clay and stopping him will stop all war, only for chief and the others to go 'Well, that just sounds crazy.'

This scene should have happened BEFORE Veld. As it was, they had just watched her break a trenchwar deadlock by walking at it while deflecting bullets. Her feats included leaping over buildings and throwing an APC across the town square. An APC which took 3 of them to carry the steel door which she ripped off single handedly.

But her talking about the greek gods is crazy at that point? I imagine they'd believe almost anything in that post-battle high.

I think you forget that one of that group said exactly what he said. "Based on what we just saw her do, maybe it's not bullshit."

Besides, the truly skeptical don't just make assumptions. Just because she shows an unusually high level of strength, doesn't mean she's a literal god, or that gods are real. I mean,

Spoiler

Dr. Poison made up a gas that gave a regular human super strength and endurance, we see him sniff that stuff a lot in the movie. For all they know, she's something like that. Some kind of super soldier program, who is also just a bit crazy obsessed with Greek Mythology. Because nothing that she did was completely outside the realm of human ability. At that point anyway. She wasn't shooting lightning bolts out of her hands (yet), she wasn't flying through the air, or anything completely impossible to normal humans. She was essentially an uber-human, in her capabilities. So while they would be more than happy to acknowledge that she was incredibly powerful, that doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion of "Plus she's a Greek God, and God Killer herself." That's a lot of unverified baggage tagged onto the end of what she did, that isn't necessarily justified by the evidence.

She launched herself into a church tower and collapsed it: an unusual level of strength is one thing, being a sword wielding artillery shell is quite another.

 

[Zhukov]

Yeah, it was pretty neat. DC finally coughed out something of worth.

Godot clearly meant business and they nailed the character. Hey, turns out having an unironic good gal (puns!) trying to do The Right Thing can make for a perfectly serviceable protagonist. No need for everyone to grumble and scowl from dawn till dusk. Smiles are allowed again! Huzzah!

Action was okay. Not great, but fun enough. Turned to a bit of a mess toward the end. Which could be said of the film as a whole. The entire third act was rather shaky.

Despite it's length, the film felt a bit rushed. They got through the origin arc with commendable efficiency but then only had half a movie for the character arc. They pulled it off, but only just.

The big weakness was the villains. They were just awful. Not just flat or shallow, but actively bad. That bit where Ludendorf and Dr Poison do an honest-to-God villain giggle I was looking at the screen with my head to one side going, "...Really?"

I look forward to what can be done with Wonder Woman going forward. If we can get that woman playing that character in that way but with a better plot then we'll have a classic on our hands. However, she's going to have to survive Justice League first, which I am all but certain is not that classic.

 

[Zhukov]

I found it rather darkly hilarious that she went straight from recoiling at the horrors of war to giving no quarter to anyone even vaguely in her vicinity.

She aaaactually doesn't.

Something similar occurred to me, but I noticed that to begin with she wasn't necessarily killing everyone in her path. In the trenches she focuses on smashing the gun. Throughout the town fight she's just smacking dudes and flinging them about. Granted, I doubt being shield-bashed by a demi-god is exactly beneficial for one's health, but we're talking action movie physiology where vicious blows to the head rarely result in anything worse than unconsciousness.

It's only a bit later when she's specifically provoked that she straight up kills dudes, starting with Mr Church Sniper if memory serves.

Moreover, like much of the movie, it doesn't make any sense. She grew up on an island of warriors, not pacifists. She embraced this ethos, seeking out training in how to make people die by the skillful application of specialized killing utensils. She must surely be aware of the concept of inflicting horrible injuries in battle; her chosen vocation in life revolves around it.

Training for combat and actually seeing a severed limb or protruding abdominal wound are two very different things.

If that's not enough, her visit to the trenches isn't even her first rodeo. She took part in the beach battle. She should know what maimed bodies look like; she and her fellow amazons created several literal boatloads of them.

This, however, is true.

... David Thewlis...

I'm pretty sure the dissonance was intentional, if perhaps ill advised.

Personally, I always associate him with the (unnamed?) affable Hospitaler Knight from Kingdom of Heaven. Loved that character.

 

[happyninja42]

She launched herself into a church tower and collapsed it: an unusual level of strength is one thing, being a sword wielding artillery shell is quite another.

Except you could say that about a huge list of DC beings, that aren't gods. So it doesn't automatically mean she's a god. Super strong sure, but hey, maybe she's just a Kryptonian. Or maybe she's some form of Lantern, and the lasso is really just her using her energy, and otherwise she's a mortal woman. Or any number of batshit crazy comic book explanations for her power that don't all default to "she's actually a goddess."

I really don't understand why people find their skepticism of her claims so baffling. Super strength doesn't automatically equal god. Hell in most cases in DC it's something else. Most of them aren't gods as far as I'm aware, they're either aliens with super powers, humans with super powers, or robots, or any number of other combinations. Sure SHE is actually a god, but the track record of DC hardly makes this the going standard for explanation of super human ability.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

That bit where Ludendorf and Dr Poison do an honest-to-God villain giggle I was looking at the screen with my head to one side going, "...Really?"

Yeah I loved the movie, but even I can't fathom how that got past the first draft of ANY script, let alone make into the final product. Currently the DCEU villain watermark is still sitting with General Zod and Faora - and as much as Man of Steel pisses me off, they were fantastic.

She launched herself into a church tower and collapsed it: an unusual level of strength is one thing, being a sword wielding artillery shell is quite another.

Except you could say that about a huge list of DC beings, that aren't gods. So it doesn't automatically mean she's a god. Super strong sure, but hey, maybe she's just a Kryptonian. Or maybe she's some form of Lantern, and the lasso is really just her using her energy, and otherwise she's a mortal woman. Or any number of batshit crazy comic book explanations for her power that don't all default to "she's actually a goddess."

I really don't understand why people find their skepticism of her claims so baffling. Super strength doesn't automatically equal god. Hell in most cases in DC it's something else. Most of them aren't gods as far as I'm aware, they're either aliens with super powers, humans with super powers, or robots, or any number of other combinations. Sure SHE is actually a god, but the track record of DC hardly makes this the going standard for explanation of super human ability.

This is a true enough statement in the broader, contemporary DC universe, but Wonder Woman is not in that universe: she is as of this moment the first meta-human the world has ever seen in the DCEU. Superman is still 70 odd years away from being a thing so when someone wielding a sword and shield goes and plows through a machine gun nest, deflecting mortars with her shield, rips the side off a tank, swings an armoured car around like it's a conductor's baton and then manages to demolish a stone building by the very act of jumping into it then it is not unreasonable for the first parallels to be the Gods and demi-Gods of our own ancient myths.

Again, in any other remotely contemporary DC product you would be 100% right: but I don't think you are in this very specific case.

 

[Cicada 5]

-In terms of sequels I'd double down on the Classical mythology angle. Seriously, have Diana do some Jason and the Argonauts/Clash of the Titans stuff and deal with ancient monsters or magical threats

I would say to look at Azzarello's run for ideas, but...

Spoiler

Hippolyta mentions that Ares killed the rest of the Greek pantheon single-handedly, so presumably they can't appear.

There are still things they can do with a kind of urban fantasy vibe, either with Greek mythological creatures, the Titans (Typhon is a solid "generic world-destroyer bad guy" enemy idea), or maybe the Furies. The Greek Furies, not Darkseid's Furies.

Actually, now that I think about it, they'd almost certainly do something with Circe. She's the closest thing Wonder Woman has to a decent archnemesis once Ares is out of the picture.

I'd kill to see a live action version of the Medusa fight (I think it was new 52?) Where Medusa was threatening to broadcast her gaze over live TV and petrify millions of people

It was before the New 52 but yeah it was a pretty good fight.

So wonder woman blinds herself and beats the shit out of her

 

[Paragon Fury]

So I finally saw the movie and it's actually good. The only part I felt really fell flat is that;

Spoiler

The Ares fight. It seems to start out alright, but after Steve does his heroic sacrifice the movie just seems to go "shit, we gotta come up with an ending now but we just used what would normally have been the perfect ending. What do?".

That said, it really made me want to play some more BF1 and Injustice 2.

 

[mecegirl]

She launched herself into a church tower and collapsed it: an unusual level of strength is one thing, being a sword wielding artillery shell is quite another.

Except you could say that about a huge list of DC beings, that aren't gods. So it doesn't automatically mean she's a god. Super strong sure, but hey, maybe she's just a Kryptonian. Or maybe she's some form of Lantern, and the lasso is really just her using her energy, and otherwise she's a mortal woman. Or any number of batshit crazy comic book explanations for her power that don't all default to "she's actually a goddess."

I really don't understand why people find their skepticism of her claims so baffling. Super strength doesn't automatically equal god. Hell in most cases in DC it's something else. Most of them aren't gods as far as I'm aware, they're either aliens with super powers, humans with super powers, or robots, or any number of other combinations. Sure SHE is actually a god, but the track record of DC hardly makes this the going standard for explanation of super human ability.

I think you are getting the timeline mixed up. The Wonder Woman movie happend before the Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman. So no, they wouldn't consider alternate explanations. She is being set up as the first superhero. So even if they don't think she's a god the idea that she's seriously expecting to find and fight one shouldn't be so surprising after seeing her fight.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Is it weird I find Dr. Poison more memorable than any Marvel villain (except Loki)?

Just the cool mask design, the mannerism and some scenes like her laughing with the general about the gas mask.

Not really. Marvel has always had the weakest villains.

But personally I think she was a boring villain. All of them were.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Seen the movie, it was good......but it was WAY too safe like it feels like anyother Superhero movie. And I think it could have been alot better if it was in WW2.

At the very least this movie make me love Gal Gadot Wonder Woman.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Seen the movie, it was good......but it was WAY too safe like it feels like anyother Superhero movie. And I think it could have been alot better if it was in WW2.

At the very least this movie make me love Gal Gadot Wonder Woman.

I think safe is what DC needed right now. The last three films have all been relatively risky, and it obviously backfired on them based on the critical reception.

WW2 is debatable. I mean, yeah, Captain America basically got there first, but it's more than that. WWI had a sense of both moral ambiguity - neither side was really morally justified - and just brutal pointlessness; the war ended with nothing that could rationally be called a victory. The film deliberately exploited that to make the point that war is kind of pointless and destructive. That point would've been blunted if it was set during WW2, because we were fighting the fucking Nazis, like...the definition of "bad guy." They were racist shitheads in all-black uniforms with skulls on their fucking helmets, for Christ's sake. It's hard to justify not fighting guys like that! How the hell would Wonder Woman have been able to say "I SEE NOW THAT VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER" in that context?

And anyway, it's still possible that a later Wonder Woman sequel will take place in the mid-century rather than the modern day. Wait, I just realised: if they do that, people will refer to the Wonder Woman sequel as WW2. That's hilarious, and must happen.

 

[happyninja42]

Seen the movie, it was good......but it was WAY too safe like it feels like anyother Superhero movie. And I think it could have been alot better if it was in WW2.

At the very least this movie make me love Gal Gadot Wonder Woman.

I think safe is what DC needed right now. The last three films have all been relatively risky, and it obviously backfired on them based on the critical reception.

WW2 is debatable. I mean, yeah, Captain America basically got there first, but it's more than that. WWI had a sense of both moral ambiguity - neither side was really morally justified - and just brutal pointlessness; the war ended with nothing that could rationally be called a victory. The film deliberately exploited that to make the point that war is kind of pointless and destructive. That point would've been blunted if it was set during WW2, because we were fighting the fucking Nazis, like...the definition of "bad guy." They were racist shitheads in all-black uniforms with skulls on their fucking helmets, for Christ's sake. It's hard to justify not fighting guys like that! How the hell would Wonder Woman have been able to say "I SEE NOW THAT VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER" in that context?

And anyway, it's still possible that a later Wonder Woman sequel will take place in the mid-century rather than the modern day. Wait, I just realised: if they do that, people will refer to the Wonder Woman sequel as WW2. That's hilarious, and must happen.

I think it was also set in WW 1 so that the Amazon beach scene wouldn't be so one sided. In WW 1, there were still people using cavalry and swords. So the idea of mounted archers taking on a group of soldiers with WW 1 era guns, is a bit more evenly matched. Or at least not so one sided that it would be a slaughter.

 

[Veylon]

I think it was also set in WW 1 so that the Amazon beach scene wouldn't be so one sided. In WW 1, there were still people using cavalry and swords. So the idea of mounted archers taking on a group of soldiers with WW 1 era guns, is a bit more evenly matched. Or at least not so one sided that it would be a slaughter.

Even World War II or Vietnam War-era soldiers could be fought with bows. It wasn't until the advent of Kevlar that modern soldiers were regularly equipped with significant body protection from arrows and even today few soldiers have face protection. The Amazons' main failing was their doctrine of advancing openly en masse (which is a bit strange given their emphasis on individual combat), not their weaponry. Which isn't to say that it wouldn't benefit them to upgrade.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Seen the movie, it was good......but it was WAY too safe like it feels like anyother Superhero movie. And I think it could have been alot better if it was in WW2.

At the very least this movie make me love Gal Gadot Wonder Woman.

I'm still on the fence about her, she was good when she was being naive, but when she tried to be serious it just fell flat.

Movie was still alright though, a solid 7/10.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Is it weird I find Dr. Poison more memorable than any Marvel villain (except Loki)?

Just the cool mask design, the mannerism and some scenes like her laughing with the general about the gas mask.

I think that was the actress trying her damnedest, because there couldn't have been much on the page.

 

[Natemans]

Seen the movie, it was good......but it was WAY too safe like it feels like anyother Superhero movie. And I think it could have been alot better if it was in WW2.

At the very least this movie make me love Gal Gadot Wonder Woman.

Honestly most of the DCEU films have been safe, but the way this film is done, I prefer this. Also the film does a better job of the WWI aesthetic than WWII. The only time it doesn't work with that setting is with the evil German. Not Dr. Poison, her C.O. who apparently is using something that is like a precursor to the Venom stuff for Bane.

And yeah, I really dug Gal Gadot. I found her dull in BvS and the trailers, but she was fantastic in WW. Also most underrated bit: the ice cream scene.