So Blizzard, Valve, how does it feel...

[Dejawesp]

Correction, they can afford to scoff at deadlines. If WoW died tomorrow they'd suddenly care a lot less about perfection.

Still puts them ahead of the games companies who can afford to scoff at deadlines but still release unpolished buggy games. Bethesda is the main one, their games are good but god they could use more development time to iron out bugs.

My point still stands. Extract the guaranteed money from the Blizzard equation and you'll find more buggy games with the Blizzard stamp. Bethesda doesn't have the luxury of the WoW component.

Bethesda games are buggy because they contain so many many many items, objects and features that are all expected to work in perfect unison across vast maps and even more computers, operating systems, graphic card brands and platforms.

It has nothing to do with poor development.

Correction, they can afford to scoff at deadlines. If WoW died tomorrow they'd suddenly care a lot less about perfection.

Still puts them ahead of the games companies who can afford to scoff at deadlines but still release unpolished buggy games. Bethesda is the main one, their games are good but god they could use more development time to iron out bugs.

My point still stands. Extract the guaranteed money from the Blizzard equation and you'll find more buggy games with the Blizzard stamp. Bethesda doesn't have the luxury of the WoW component.

Blizzard developed both Lord of the Clans and Starcraft ghost before WoW. Had they released those games at the time they would have sold well but been subpar games. But blizzard plans in the long term so they axed the games and threw all the development money in the trash but they keept their flawless record of producing hit games.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

It's been anounced in 1997...
Unlike HL3 which hasn't been anounced at all.

I'm still waiting for episode 3 though...

Also, changing an engine shouldn't take much work, it's not like you're recoding the entire thing.

You might break you ctrl, C and V keys though...
The logic for the game itself should be pretty much the same.
Probably not many changes.
Might be a pain if you have to change your function names for whatever the new engine uses though...
Well, that, and some more corrections.
It's not like the game has to be completely different from before the engine change.
Well, unless you change your programming language... (Like suddenly switching from C++ to VB.net, but Why would they want to do that?)

 

[Canid117]

It seems that this thread was poorly thought through. Diablo II wasn't even released until three years after Duke Nukem Forever was announced and Half Life 2 wasn't released until four years later. So I imagine they feel something along the lines of "We haven't been twiddling our thumbs for 14 years and in the case of Blizzard we didn't even start development on DIII until like four years ago. Valve is still being evasive about whether they have even started on episode three. I kind of wish Valve would cancel the damn thing so that I would know that the bitching would eventually stop.

 

[Hop-along Nussbaum]

Blizzard doesn't care. With massive revenues still coming in from WoW for the forseeable future, and an attitude of "We'll release it when it's ready, not before." they are set for a long, long time.

Valve? Meh...

 

[zehydra]

Blizzard probably couldn't give a shit. Can't say the same for Valve, because I don't know them as well.

Blizzard are perfectionists who scoff at the idea of deadlines.

Correction, they can afford to scoff at deadlines. If WoW died tomorrow they'd suddenly care a lot less about perfection.

they were rolling in the money before WoW (starcraft), but you're right, WoW generates A LOT (understatement)

 

[Vault boy Eddie]

Seeing as how Steam will be selling Duke Nukem Forever, i'm sure Valve is sitting in a big chair, stroking a hairless cat saying "Good!" in a very satisfied, creepy voice.

 

[BoredDragon]

Well I'm not sure you can really blame them. They both have had major projects they've also worked on.

 

[Agayek]

It's been anounced in 1997...
Unlike HL3 which hasn't been anounced at all.

I'm still waiting for episode 3 though...

Also, changing an engine shouldn't take much work, it's not like you're recoding the entire thing.

You might break you ctrl, C and V keys though...
The logic for the game itself should be pretty much the same.
Probably not many changes.
Might be a pain if you have to change your function names for whatever the new engine uses though...
Well, that, and some more corrections.
It's not like the game has to be completely different from before the engine change.
Well, unless you change your programming language... (Like suddenly switching from C++ to VB.net, but Why would they want to do that?)

It's actually a fairly significant change, and not one you can copypasta your way through.

If you know anything about programming, you'd know what an API, or application programming interface is. What an "engine" is, in its most basic form, is an API to translate the data (models, damage/health calculations, etc) into a playable game.

When you change engines, those API calls are all drastically altered. Which means you would need to go through all of your code and adjust the method calls/signatures to match the new engine's set-up. Most complex programs have upwards of 300,000 lines of code (and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if most modern games are 1,000,000+). It will take a lot of time to transfer the code over.

It's most certainly not a quick or easy transition.

Edit: You are correct in that the base logic of the program won't change, but the process to follow that logic can be, and usually is, altered drastically.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Gearbox probably had the concept work available to them, but I seriously doubt that 14 years worth of technical material (programming, levels, etc) was just sitting there waiting for them to put into the final project.
Fuck, I'd be surprised if even a 10th of that material was even usable in the final version given how many engine changes occurred.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

It's been anounced in 1997...
Unlike HL3 which hasn't been anounced at all.

I'm still waiting for episode 3 though...

Also, changing an engine shouldn't take much work, it's not like you're recoding the entire thing.

You might break you ctrl, C and V keys though...
The logic for the game itself should be pretty much the same.
Probably not many changes.
Might be a pain if you have to change your function names for whatever the new engine uses though...
Well, that, and some more corrections.
It's not like the game has to be completely different from before the engine change.
Well, unless you change your programming language... (Like suddenly switching from C++ to VB.net, but Why would they want to do that?)

It's actually a fairly significant change, and not one you can copypasta your way through.

If you know anything about programming, you'd know what an API, or application programming interface is. What an "engine" is, in its most basic form, is an API to translate the data (models, damage/health calculations, etc) into a playable game.

When you change engines, those API calls are all drastically altered. Which means you would need to go through all of your code and adjust the method calls/signatures to match the new engine's set-up. Most complex programs have upwards of 300,000 lines of code (and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if most modern games are 1,000,000+). It will take a lot of time to transfer the code over.

It's most certainly not a quick or easy transition.

Edit: You are correct in that the base logic of the program won't change, but the process to follow that logic can be, and usually is, altered drastically.

That's basically what I meant when I said it might be a pain to change all the method names (seems I edited out the part where I included parameters before posting).

But still, how much work is that really?
I estimate only a few months (somewhere between 2 and 5).
That is of course once they know what needs to be changed.

(About 2 months assuming they write 133 lines each per day with 12 programmers and there are 100,000 lines of code to be written.)

 

[Pearwood]

My point still stands. Extract the guaranteed money from the Blizzard equation and you'll find more buggy games with the Blizzard stamp. Bethesda doesn't have the luxury of the WoW component.

True but you can hardly call Bethesda small.

 

[-Drifter-]

Blizzard are perfectionists who scoff at the idea of deadlines.

Not really. Most of their games are more or less in permanent Beta mode. Even now Diablo 2 still has plenty of glitches.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Since Diablo III and Half Life III could remain in development for another 3 years and still only have a development time that's about a third that of Duke Nukem Forever, I'm pretty sure Blizzard and Valve don't give 2 shits.

 

[manythings]

My point still stands. Extract the guaranteed money from the Blizzard equation and you'll find more buggy games with the Blizzard stamp. Bethesda doesn't have the luxury of the WoW component.

True but you can hardly call Bethesda small.

I never called them small I said they don't have a guaranteed source of income. That's a thing few games companies can count on.

 

[Agayek]

That's basically what I meant when I said it might be a pain to change all the method names (seems I edited out the part where I included parameters before posting).

But still, how much work is that really?
I estimate only a few months (somewhere between 2 and 5).
That is of course once they know what needs to be changed.

(About 2 months assuming they write 133 lines each per day with 12 programmers and there are 100,000 lines of code to be written.)

Assuming good documentation/support or relatively in-depth experience with the new engine, that sounds about right.

That said, the majority of the time when a group changes engines, it's to an engine they've never used before, and most pieces of software are not documented nearly as well as they should be. Some are, and I have not personally used any game engines so I can't say in that specific department, but generally the documentation is fairly bad overall.

Without proper documentation and no experience with the engine, a year to switch over is not terribly outrageous, especially for PC games. To reach the level of scalability and efficiency they'd need takes a good amount of optimization and if it's an engine you haven't used before getting that optimization can take a lot of work.

 

[E-Penguin]

Seeing as how Steam will be selling Duke Nukem Forever, i'm sure Valve is sitting in a big chair, stroking a hairless cat saying "Good!" in a very satisfied, creepy voice.

That must be a big chair.

 

[Internet Kraken]

...knowing that Duke Nukem: Forever will be released before Diablo 3 and Episode 3, respectively?

Why should I find it odd that a game announced years before these two is coming out first?