So I just installed Steam once again.

[WeepingAngels]

Seen people make this claim many times, never seen the actual quote though. Do you have the actual quote?

Even if it weren't true, it doesn't matter.

When you buy a game off Steam, you own the game. At least, in the same fashion you "owned" those games going as far back as the 90's.

See, here's the thing:
If you're buying software via digital distribution, and you're not downloading and backing-up those games onto a hard-drive, DVDs, or other storage medium, than you are being incredibly irresponsible with your purchases.

Not doing so is the equivalent of going to Gamestop, paying for a game, and asking them to keep the disk behind the counter until some unknown future date when you may or may not return to pick it up.

Or, if you don't keep back-up copies stored locally (as in, solely relying on downloading from Steam after the initial install), then that's the equivalent of buying your game from Gamestop, taking it home for a bit, then returning to the store and asking them to keep it for you until you want to play it again.

Sure, they may be obliged to keep that copy available to you, but if they go belly-up and your copy goes with them, then that's on you.

Every time I purchase a game from Steam, I immediately download it and create a back-up of the game to one of my external hard-drives. That way, even if Valve magically "goes away" in the near future, I still have all of my games.

I really wish more people would realize this. I really get sick of hearing the "but they can take away all my games at any time!" bullshit.

I was under the impression that most Steam games need to check in the first time they run (at the minimum). If that is true then wasting space on your external hard drive is for nothing if Steam goes under.

The question I asked does matter. People keep quoting that but so far NO ONE has been able to produce the quote. I just want to see the quote.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Back when I bought Portal to see what all the fuss was about (and I did see. Love the Portal series... and only the Portal series among Valve's games), I balked at Steam... with good reason. It was a bug-ridden mess full of advertisements you couldn't shut off (back then). I considered it malware (due to relatively recent improvements, I no longer do).

However, even back then...

I tend to very much dislike any non-productive program that wants to run 24/7 without any proper benefit or justification I can get behind.

...that has never been true. Steam has always had a very clearly labeled option to not start up with your computer. It defaults to "on" the same as every other program with an instant messaging component since about 1998... the ability and sense to turn those off is what separates average baby-boomer computer literacy from the world war 2 generation's average computer literacy.

My experience with Steam lately has been all positive. Gaming under Linux (both native and through an emulation layer) has been easier than I ever thought it could be, back before I used Linux. It's also been more stable than any gaming I've done since XP SP2. Can't wait for the rest of 'em to kick Microsoft to the curb.

Maybe there's a black hole or yet another tear in reality, but what I feel and what I see and what I perceive to be truth usually is, as said before.

I use Steam, so I like it enough to not burn it down and torch the house. Yes, gaming on Linux has come a long way, as did Steam. And yet I can't be arsed to spend any more time with Linux in my spare time than I absolutely have/want to. It's like having to go for a wee. Sometimes I just got to do it. And then I'm good for a week, a month or half a year.

Steam, as a lot of other programs like to start automagically by default. I never said that turning that off wasn't possible. With Steam, it is. It's also perfectly possible to turn off auto-updating in Windows 8. However, as said before, if a program defaults to this behaviour, it forces me to actively seek out the option to disable it to keep it from doing that.

I don't like that. That's the truth. I really, really don't like that. I like my system clean, be it for work or be it for gaming fun. That has become somewhat harder lately. I still like Steam, else I wouldn't use it. I despise EA, so there's no Origin for me. I don't have strong emotions about Ubisoft, but I still could never be bothered with UPlay. When I go download something, I prefer to just download the goods I want and paid for, no 'download manager' or any of that crap. Label me what you want, it's not bound to change my views or practices a bit. Good luck.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

I think TehCookie and some other users here have highlighted a critical flaw here in Steam: It's not user-friendly for non-technical people. In other words, if someone without the technical skills runs into a problem with a Steam game, they have no idea on how to fix it and instead blame Steam for the complications. The usual fixes are hidden behind one too many clicks, or Steam does not inform them of the options they could take to attempt to fix it. Best way to fix the non-technical user problem? Make a one-click Auto-troubleshoot that runs the game through a series of known fixes and workarounds for common and specific problems.

Also, TehCookie: You probably need to do an integrity check on your DMC4 content. Right-click the game in your Library, go to Properties, move to the Local Files tab, and click "Verify integrity of game cache..." It will do some checks on your file to see if there is any corruption, and if any files are corrupt it will re-download those files.

Alternatively, also click on "Browse local files" and find the executable in the file browser that pops up (it may be in one of the folders). Right-click it, select "Properties", go to the Compatibility tab, and check "Run this program as Administrator". Hit OK, and try the game again.

(Above is the sort of thing I'm talking about - How would a non-technical person know to do that?)

I kinda have to agree here, every issue a steam game has given me was fixed within a hour for me. And it seems most issues are just people not looking for a fix and just whining about it. Also I don't know what other people are running but steam is taking less resources then the desktop at the moment on my machine (I'm chatting with friends on it right now). And for the complaints about patches let me ask you this "Why should we be so passive and just roll back a patch?" If a studio pushes out a crappy patch then they should fix it, why do we have to "roll back".

 

[Vigormortis]

I was under the impression that most Steam games need to check in the first time they run (at the minimum). If that is true then wasting space on your external hard drive is for nothing if Steam goes under.

They need to "check in" upon the first, initial install. If installed from a back-up they generally do not need to do so. You can even (most of the time) install a back-up while in offline mode. Provided your account credentials are accurate.

Besides, that "check in" is something that can easily be patched out. A simple update to the Steam platform would remove that necessity.

The question I asked does matter. People keep quoting that but so far NO ONE has been able to produce the quote. I just want to see the quote.

Thing is, you don't have to go looking for a quote from Mr. Newell. Simply pose your question to Steam Support directly and you're likely to get this in response:

 

[WeepingAngels]

Well, that's not really a public quote. It's a private message and I don't think it has legal backing. Do you really think they would be able to remove the DRM from third party games without legal consequences?

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Back when I bought Portal to see what all the fuss was about (and I did see. Love the Portal series... and only the Portal series among Valve's games), I balked at Steam... with good reason. It was a bug-ridden mess full of advertisements you couldn't shut off (back then). I considered it malware (due to relatively recent improvements, I no longer do).

However, even back then...

I tend to very much dislike any non-productive program that wants to run 24/7 without any proper benefit or justification I can get behind.

...that has never been true. Steam has always had a very clearly labeled option to not start up with your computer. It defaults to "on" the same as every other program with an instant messaging component since about 1998... the ability and sense to turn those off is what separates average baby-boomer computer literacy from the world war 2 generation's average computer literacy.

My experience with Steam lately has been all positive. Gaming under Linux (both native and through an emulation layer) has been easier than I ever thought it could be, back before I used Linux. It's also been more stable than any gaming I've done since XP SP2. Can't wait for the rest of 'em to kick Microsoft to the curb.

Maybe there's a black hole or another tear in reality, but what I feel and what I see and what I perceive to be truth usually is, as said before.

Steam, as a lot of other programs like to start automagically by default. I never said that turning that off wasn't possible. With Steam, it is. It's also perfectly possible to turn off auto-updating in Windows 8. However, as said before, if a program defaults to this behaviour, it forces me to actively seek out the option to disable it to keep it from doing that.

I don't like that. That's the truth. I really, really don't like that. I like my system clean, be it for work or be it for gaming fun. That has become somewhat harder lately. I still like Steam, else I wouldn't use it. I despise EA, so there's no Origin for me. I don't have strong emotions about Ubisoft, but I still could never be bothered with UPlay. When I go download something, I prefer to just download the goods I want and paid for, no 'download manager' or any of that crap. Label me what you want, it's not bound to change my views or practices a bit. Good luck.

Not to be rude dude but you honestly sound kinda lazy if turning off a option is to much work :/. I mean having to do stuff like that is kinda part of maintaining a computer anyway. I get the idea of wanting your system clean, I mean my Raspberry Pi that is for steaming media does just that. THAT said if I need a config file or program to do what I need it to do I'll install it. And you wanna talk about having to seek out and change settings that is a pain to set up if my SD card corrupts (which has happened during a power outage).

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Well, that's not really a public quote. It's a private message and I don't think it has legal backing. Do you really think they would be able to remove the DRM from third party games without legal consequences?

Games for Windows Live is being removed from games on steam, and if crackers can remove DRM by modding the executable file I don't see why the creators themselves can't.

 

[Pebblig]

I've always been a Steam fan since about 3 years back, now I have about 500 games =D

This is mainly down to indie bundles, and the fact I can pick up so many dirt cheap games...which has also lead to me experiencing and being a massive fan of certain indie games that I would have never played otherwise.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Well, that's not really a public quote. It's a private message and I don't think it has legal backing. Do you really think they would be able to remove the DRM from third party games without legal consequences?

Games for Windows Live is being removed from games on steam, and if crackers can remove DRM by modding the executable file I don't see why the creators themselves can't.

We aren't talking about the creators are we? We are talking about Steam, the distribution service, going down. Valve can't remove the DRM from third party games.

 

[CrankyCorvus]

Seen people make this claim many times, never seen the actual quote though. Do you have the actual quote?

Even if it weren't true, it doesn't matter.

When you buy a game off Steam, you own the game. At least, in the same fashion you "owned" those games going as far back as the 90's.

See, here's the thing:
If you're buying software via digital distribution, and you're not downloading and backing-up those games onto a hard-drive, DVDs, or other storage medium, than you are being incredibly irresponsible with your purchases.

Not doing so is the equivalent of going to Gamestop, paying for a game, and asking them to keep the disk behind the counter until some unknown future date when you may or may not return to pick it up.

Or, if you don't keep back-up copies stored locally (as in, solely relying on downloading from Steam after the initial install), then that's the equivalent of buying your game from Gamestop, taking it home for a bit, then returning to the store and asking them to keep it for you until you want to play it again.

Sure, they may be obliged to keep that copy available to you, but if they go belly-up and your copy goes with them, then that's on you.

Every time I purchase a game from Steam, I immediately download it and create a back-up of the game to one of my external hard-drives. That way, even if Valve magically "goes away" in the near future, I still have all of my games.

I really wish more people would realize this. I really get sick of hearing the "but they can take away all my games at any time!" bullshit.

Unrelated: First post! Yay...

Okay, first of all, not one of us has ever owned a game. You only own it if you made it. What the consumer's actually buying is a license to play a copy of the game and a copy of the required media (be it physical or digital) which allows the consumer to play said game. These licenses can, in fact, be taken away from you at any point, though the likelihood is low, I'll give you that.

I also have to touch on your last point here. I guess you forgot about the large number games which require Steam to be running for you to be able to launch them. So, for your plan to work, the Steamworks DRM would need to be removed from said games for them to work should Steam disappear. Call me pessimistic if you wish, but I just can't see that happening.

OT: I've been an active Steam user for about 2 years and I haven't encountered many problems. Even those I did encounter were easily solved. I particularly like the fact that many of the games I'd like to play are Steamworks but I've learned to live with it. I see Steam as nothing more than a necessary evil, really.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

If I could PC game without Steam, I would. And I do, if possible. Like others have mentioned, GOG is pretty great. That's digital distribution done right in my opinion. I miss when you could go to the store and buy a singleplayer game, install and play, without having to go online or update. I'm cool with downloading patches on my own.

The moment it got hard, if not impossible, to just get proper games in their original language in the shop, mall or bookstore down the corner, I embraced Amazon and every business that would still let me throw money at them and deliver what I want - the game, in its original form, without black-and-white instruction booklets that were of poor quality but came in a dozen languages.

Digital downloads don't give me the disc, they don't give me the box, the don't give me that much-craved for physical something to hold and behold. And yet, I can accept that as being the way to go as long as I don't have to do it all the time. I like GOG for what it is and what it does. A lot of what they have on sale I already own, and yet I'm willing to buy again if it allows me to jump right into playing the actual game instead of having to fiddle with things. I fiddle with things (and people) pretty much 24/7, so I like when, every once in a while, something just works. Steam generally does that now, I like that. Windows 8... not so much. And, after I went on a not so merry trip through the forums after some people suggested it was because of my age or my lack of intelligence that I find myself annoyed with certain things, I can cheerfully report that no, my gripes and worries manifest themselves manifold. Games suddenly all starting in 3D, with the 3D section missing from the graphics driver dialogue? It's all there, everywhere. Giving people headaches, ulcers and nightmares.

The emancipation of the gamer is a strange thing. Right now, I don't really believe it exists. Even if you make things ass backwards, everyone that thinks very little of it will just be called old and stupid.

Well, I say it's time for another war. Just to shake up the fancy little gangsters a wee bit. I'd pay to see that happening.

 

[Olas]

Steam and me go way back. Steam is like an old friend who's hit it big, yet is still really cool. It does whatever it can to make me happy. Steam isn't perfect, but it's too good for me to complain.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Okay, first of all, not one of us has ever owned a game. You only own it if you made it. What the consumer's actually buying is a license to play a copy of the game and a copy of the required media (be it physical or digital) which allows the consumer to play said game. These licenses can, in fact, be taken away from you at any point, though the likelihood is low, I'll give you that.

You bought the publishers bullshit hook, line and sinker. My physical games can't ever be taken from me. Maybe you could tell me how Nintendo would take away my Super Mario World SNES cart if they wanted to. I own that copy of the game and there is nothing Nintendo can do about it.

I also have to touch on your last point here. I guess you forgot about the large number games which require Steam to be running for you to be able to launch them. So, for your plan to work, the Steamworks DRM would need to be removed from said games for them to work should Steam disappear. Call me pessimistic if you wish, but I just can't see that happening.

Agreed with this part.

 

[DoPo]

Seen people make this claim many times, never seen the actual quote though. Do you have the actual quote?

http://i.imgur.com/4sa1Ln6.jpg

Flash is another big offender.

Flash is, without a doubt, the strongest offender. It's very much the reason Firefox, Steam, and a few other browser-style apps are noted as resource hogs, and Adobe doesn't seem to think that perhaps at this point it's better just to rebuild the engine from the ground up so that it's much more efficient.

I think I remember Adobe recently (like a couple of years ago) set their plans like this - let Flash burn. Well, pretty much, at least - or to be more precise, they were going to let HTML5 replace it. Not overnight, of course, but Flash was too much of a maintenance hog even for them, so at some point they'd just drop it and embrace the future.

3. Humble Bundles also have them DRM free as well as the Steam keys. Unless it's from crappy publishers, but I haven't seen many forced DRM games on there.

Actually, there are pretty much regular Humble Weekly Bundles that only net you Steam keys. The most recent one I saw was a month ago and had Killing Floor (though, it may have also been Indie Gala) and around that time there was one with Darksiders 2 (bought it on 4th of October), and a month before that, there was the Paradox bundle with Magicka and other stuff (bough it on the 3rd of September). Even the famous Origin bundle didn't have DRM free games - it was activated on Steam or Origin only.

 

[Saika Renegade]

Steam is like my dog: it's always there, eternally patient, generally reliable, usually well-meaning, and it does a good job of looking guilty when I yell at it for falling over and pissing on the carpet (by which I mean the friend or item servers crash).

It isn't perfect, mind you, but for a free service it's managed to learn from most of its early mistakes as well as that of others, and I can appreciate that--this is where I quibble with Origin, as EA seems to have a problem absorbing the lessons from Valve's own past faux pas without first making the same mistakes themselves.

 

[CrankyCorvus]

You bought the publishers bullshit hook, line and sinker. My physical games can't ever be taken from me. Maybe you could tell me how Nintendo would take away my Super Mario World SNES cart if they wanted to. I own that copy of the game and there is nothing Nintendo can do about it.

Ok, I wasn't being precise enough with the "taking away licenses"-bit and I apologize. It's definitely more of a Steam/comparable digital distribution platform thing (at least if I read the Steam subscriber agreement correctly). I stand by everything else I said, though.

 

[WeepingAngels]

You bought the publishers bullshit hook, line and sinker. My physical games can't ever be taken from me. Maybe you could tell me how Nintendo would take away my Super Mario World SNES cart if they wanted to. I own that copy of the game and there is nothing Nintendo can do about it.

Ok, I wasn't being precise enough with the "taking away licenses"-bit and I apologize. It's definitely more of a Steam/comparable digital distribution platform thing (at least if I read the Steam subscriber agreement correctly). I stand by everything else I said, though.

It's true, if Steam goes down people are probably going to find that there is nothing to that private message from Steam tech support.

Aside from Valve's own games, they have no legal power to remove the DRM from third party games. Consider this, EA has a competing DD service. There is no way they would allow Valve to put their games out there in the wild without DRM.

 

[Joccaren]

Steam is off literally 99% of the time. It only goes on when there's a game I want to play that needs it to run, and even then its usually in offline mode. I don't use Steam. Its a utility, and I see no point in having it running and browsing its store, and been shown ads, and having all my friends be alerted that I'm online, when I don't need it for what I'm doing at that point. It starts automatically when a game requires it anyway, so why start it at startup.

 

[Auron]

people with compulsions and Steam's card system gave me almost a hundred dollars already, I've spent a reasonable amount on December's sale but not too much this july sale I think I'm finally up to the stage where I have most of Steam. This year I've picked up relatively few releases and there's been a bunch of them I'm actually waiting for the next sale right now, never uninstalled though.


Gabe Newell has went on record saying they would find a way if Steam ever died, even if you still had to download origin for the EA games that's keeping the promise. But really you're naive if you think Steam will disappear. If it for some ungodly reason Valve starts to go bad someone will buy it and still profit from it.

 

[snowbear]

For me steams pros far outweigh the cons, and as I now have hundreds of games on there I cant see myself not using it any time soon.

Pros:
+The sales (even new games are normally cheap enough).
+Its also convenient to be able to have all my games in one place, I can delete, re-install as and when I like without worrying if ill loose or scratch a disk.
+All my friends are there and easy to reach too (the game overlay is a god send when talking to people in game).
+Free party chat (voip) and the quality is pretty good and doesn't take up much bandwidth.
+As far as DRM goes its the least invasive I've seen (doesn't alter the game experience at all) I'm not sure I would even bother calling it DRM these days.
+Achievements and trading cards actually mean something, and if you're lucky enough you can get money off games through playing.
+My installed games are always kept up to date without having to worry about what patch I need to download.

Neutral
*VAC while its a good idea, I feel it still needs work. lets people get away with hacking for months before finally clamping down on them.

Cons
-The games brought are only licences and if steam goes, then pretty much so do my games (cant really see it going anywhere any time soon though).
-Having the steam network going down can leave you without some games for a while. (longest I've been without was 10 mins or so but I had plenty of other games on steam to get on with so didn't affect me too much.
-No warning when a games patch is going to download, can be a pain if you're streaming a film or TV. easily solved by turning steam off, but i like the convenience of leaving it on. so a warning would be nice.


All in all I've been using steam now for 7-8 years and while in the beginning it was a bit of a bumpy ride, for me its now a fantastic service that me and my friends would hate to be without.