So I just installed Steam once again.

[Xentek]

Steam with the window being open, 100MB of RAM, with it minimized to tray, 20MB. Chrome is using well over 500MB with 4 tabs and some plugins. This is not an issue unless your PC is ten years old. For the rest you can set yourself offline (though why have friends if you don't use it?), stop it from booting with your system, remove the news on start-up and make it go to your library right away. You can also disable automatic game updates if you want to play a specific version of your game (and yes, official patchers work just fine on Steam games and finds the path automatically near always).

Now yeah, Steam is DRM but I love it to death. I don't even want to buy games anymore that I cannot add to my Steam library and non-Steam games I start-up from there too (even Origin/Uplay games I own outside of Steam). I have games on GOG, GamersGate, GreenManGaming though I find it a pain to manually download these games (don't get me started on GMG's capsule client) and then to make sure they are patched to the latest version. The main benefit is that Steam keeps everything centralized and is generally reliable, or at least a lot more than Origin and Uplay. If talking about physical games, I don't even have room to store my ~350 of them and I'll be damned to go through the trouble of finding the one I want, installing it over DVD, manually finding the latest patch, download and install it and then keeping the DVD in the tray each time I want to replay a game.

If Steam breaks, I got 300 games installed I can play in offline mode. If the Steam service ever stops entirely, don't even try to tell me there won't be a another (less than legitimate) version that'll launch your installed games within the hour. Though I don't see how this is really an argument, the same goes if GOG or whatever goes offline and you don't happen to have a back-up of the installer. The main thing is that I don't have to worry about more draconian DRM like AC2's always online nonsense. Though it remains ridiculous that Steam games may still require other DRM like Uplay (Far Cry 3, Driver:SF, Anno 2070) or god forbid, GFWL (Dark Souls, Lost Planet 2, Resident Evil games).

All that said, sales aren't really an argument for Steam as these occur everywhere. Prices are usually on the high-end outside of sales too, but from what I understand that's mainly the publishers' doing, deciding for how much its games should be sold. The primary issue with Steam is the same one most digital distributors have, the inability to re-sell games as used. The other glaring issue is the (from what I heard, I've never needed it) Steam support center for being generally slow and unhelpful.

Bottom line, it's not perfect but it's a whole lot better than the alternatives: fragmented library, time spent installing and maintaining said library and horribly intrusive DRM that actually makes you jump through hoops like: please make an account/login and register your CD key for each different publisher. Also note the 3 machine activation limit and if possible, please be online all the time; 1 dropped packet and you get to restart your game. Oops, server is down! Guess you can't play at all! Even though you have everything installed and registered...

 

[WouldYouKindly]

I've never had issues with Steam, at least not since I got my new computer and crammed a little more ram into it. 16 gigs will handle whatever leech program you want to run.

In all honesty, I see people who have had problems with Steam and I feel lucky or something. I've never had one single problem with Steam. My downloads are swift and never delayed unless I myself delay them because I want to play some online multiplayer game. The sales spoil the hell out of me, but that should be par for the course for a medium that doesn't have to pay for any physical presence, just shuffling data around.

Finally, some of the features people might not use, such as the Steam Workshop(I FUCKING LOVE THE STEAM WORKSHOP!), are exactly why I love it as a service. The only thing I wish I could do is have them make some kind of guarantee that even after Steam ends, anyone who has games on Steam will be given completely DRM free versions of their games. Otherwise, our only recourse would be *looks for mods* piracy... Or spending thousands of dollars on games we already spent thousands of dollars to buy in the first place.

 

[Strelok]

I got DMC4 last christmas and it didn't work. I still use the games that actually work on it, but I refuse to buy anything more. Steam isn't as cheap as everyone seems to think, I can get games just as cheap used. Used games also have the physical game.

Really? Where is this magical land where recently released console games drop in price so fast? For now, till I get an answer I think we will call this land, The Land of Make Believe. I bought Red Dead Redemption, a truly awful game for $19.00 a full 2 years after release. I bought Tomb Raider 2013 for $19 not even 6 months after release. Did the same for many more when the console versions for a used copy was maybe $5 off.

Let's try Grand Theft Auto IV: Liberty City Stories on right now:
EB Games used for PS3 $19.99
www.ebgames.ca/ps3/games/grand-theft-auto-episodes-from-liberty-city/254429

Playstation Store digital download $19.99
http://us.playstation.com/games/grand-theft-auto-episodes-from-liberty-city-ps3.html

Steam daily deal price $7.49
http://store.steampowered.com/app/901583/

There are release day deals, usually 10 to 25 percent off, some AAA don't do this, think Activision for a main culprit, most PC games can be $10 to $20 less, sure you can find some really cheap console games at pawn shops, that is where I usually go, I rarely buy console games at release, but even pawn shops are not that far off say Game Stop's used game price.

Edit: Looking at your replies you were just using this thread as a soap box to spout more more of your console crusader rhetoric, please ignore my reply and carry on Jihad. In the coming end times Cthulhu knows consoles are going to need a rabid defender.

 

[HYNGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH]

Honestly my only real issue with Steam is being forced to log on in order to play a game like Skyrim.

I get that there's an offline mode, but occasionally Steam decides to change its mind about whether or not that's going to work, and then I'm forced the log on again. Sadly, I tend to only play most of my Steam games after my net has gone down, so the forced log on doesn't help.

 

[ERaptor]

As someone who often switches computers, has a lot of friends who also play PC-Games and has a habit of loosing CD's, steam is ideal for me. I can log in and theres my entire Librar yof Games just a few clicks and a download away. Sales also allow me to purchase good stuff even if its a tight month, and the browsing features allowed me to find a lot of good indies i would have missed completely otherwise.

And about Steam going out of business and taking down my games. Well, first of all im fairly certain that we would know if something like that is looming, which would allow me to backup not only the Games, but also all Serial Keys (As a tip, if you are concerned with "loosing" your account, or fear that steam might go out of business, i would highly recommend not only backing up the data, but also all Serial Keys. If worst case happens, you have something you can prove that you bought the games.). But im not really seeing Steam going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Vigormortis]

Unrelated: First post! Yay...

Okay, first of all, not one of us has ever owned a game. You only own it if you made it. What the consumer's actually buying is a license to play a copy of the game and a copy of the required media (be it physical or digital) which allows the consumer to play said game. These licenses can, in fact, be taken away from you at any point, though the likelihood is low, I'll give you that.

Copyright law is such that the licenses for said software theoretically can be taken away, but ownership of the actual software may or may not legally remain in the hands of the purchaser.

Really, the whole thing is a wash. Copyright laws are so muddled it's a wonder ANYONE can make sense of them in their current state.

I also have to touch on your last point here. I guess you forgot about the large number games which require Steam to be running for you to be able to launch them.

Um, no. I didn't. And I'm a bit insulted you're insinuating as much.

So, for your plan to work, the Steamworks DRM would need to be removed from said games for them to work should Steam disappear. Call me pessimistic if you wish, but I just can't see that happening.

Pardon me while I quote one of my own posts. The one I made immediately after the one you quoted, in fact.

Spoiler

I was under the impression that most Steam games need to check in the first time they run (at the minimum). If that is true then wasting space on your external hard drive is for nothing if Steam goes under.

They need to "check in" upon the first, initial install. If installed from a back-up they generally do not need to do so. You can even (most of the time) install a back-up while in offline mode. Provided your account credentials are accurate.

Besides, that "check in" is something that can easily be patched out. A simple update to the Steam platform would remove that necessity.

The question I asked does matter. People keep quoting that but so far NO ONE has been able to produce the quote. I just want to see the quote.

Thing is, you don't have to go looking for a quote from Mr. Newell. Simply pose your question to Steam Support directly and you're likely to get this in response:

The only potential issues that may come up in such an event would be those titles that require other, 3rd party DRM.

 

[Vigormortis]

It's true, if Steam goes down people are probably going to find that there is nothing to that private message from Steam tech support.

That's a bit of a stretch. And, in some ways, a bit paranoid.

Truthfully, if you have the software purchased and stored in some physical form, you're allowed to use it regardless of whatever "license" you lost.

Publishers can fill their EULAs with all the claims they want, but unless copyright laws go through some changes you can still legally use the software.

(one of the very few bonuses of our current, antiquated CR laws.)

Aside from Valve's own games, they have no legal power to remove the DRM from third party games.

Sure they do. Any games that utilized DRM services that were a part of Steam can have those removed, should Valve have to shut Steam down.

Third party DRM systems couldn't be, of course, but that's a non-issue as Valve can...

Consider this, EA has a competing DD service. There is no way they would allow Valve to put their games out there in the wild without DRM.

...just transfer any serial keys to other, requisite publishers services. So EA games could be transferred to Origin, Ubisoft titles to Uplay, etc, etc, etc.

For those games that wouldn't be associated with a third party DD platform, they could simply have their Steam "check in" disabled. Any other DRM system they utilized would still be functional as those systems would not be directly tied to Steam.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

On a side note, in another post you said:

You bought the publishers bullshit hook, line and sinker. My physical games can't ever be taken from me. Maybe you could tell me how Nintendo would take away my Super Mario World SNES cart if they wanted to. I own that copy of the game and there is nothing Nintendo can do about it.

The same is true of digital downloads.

As I described in a previous post, a person is being irresponsible with their digital purchases if they're not downloading those titles immediately and storing them on a physical format. (whether it be DVDs, CDs, hard-drives, etc)

And, once you've purchased the software and stored it on a physical medium, no matter how many "licenses" you lose the associated companies can't take the physical copies from you.

 

[CrankyCorvus]

snip

I think I do see some of the logic behind your stance, but I just didn't immediatly believe what this support tech said to be true. It'd be great if it was true but I'm not holding out too many hopes. Again, call me a pessimist if you wish (it wouldn't be the first time, believe me).

Anyway, we are dealing with hypothesis here. Valve suddenly discontinuing Steam does seem very unlikely at this stage and up until that happens (if it does) we can still play Steam-games. I back-up them up, too, but more because I then don't need to download them again in the event of a pc issue/full pc upgrade.

P.S. I must agree with you on the "copyright laws"-bit, though.

 

[TehCookie]

I got DMC4 last christmas and it didn't work. I still use the games that actually work on it, but I refuse to buy anything more. Steam isn't as cheap as everyone seems to think, I can get games just as cheap used. Used games also have the physical game.

Really? Where is this magical land where recently released console games drop in price so fast? For now, till I get an answer I think we will call this land, The Land of Make Believe. I bought Red Dead Redemption, a truly awful game for $19.00 a full 2 years after release. I bought Tomb Raider 2013 for $19 not even 6 months after release. Did the same for many more when the console versions for a used copy was maybe $5 off.

Let's try Grand Theft Auto IV: Liberty City Stories on right now:
EB Games used for PS3 $19.99
www.ebgames.ca/ps3/games/grand-theft-auto-episodes-from-liberty-city/254429

Playstation Store digital download $19.99
http://us.playstation.com/games/grand-theft-auto-episodes-from-liberty-city-ps3.html

Steam daily deal price $7.49
http://store.steampowered.com/app/901583/

There are release day deals, usually 10 to 25 percent off, some AAA don't do this, think Activision for a main culprit, most PC games can be $10 to $20 less, sure you can find some really cheap console games at pawn shops, that is where I usually go, I rarely buy console games at release, but even pawn shops are not that far off say Game Stop's used game price.

Edit: Looking at your replies you were just using this thread as a soap box to spout more more of your console crusader rhetoric, please ignore my reply and carry on Jihad. In the coming end times Cthulhu knows consoles are going to need a rabid defender.

Flint, the 2nd most dangerous city in the USA is where all the magically cheap prices are. Especially the pawn shops that don't take names or ask questions.

Besides how am I a console crusader? Because I play on both and am not a full PC elitist? I never hated on PC games, just DRM and Steam. I'm going to go with the DRM free option, and if the next gen-consoles had DRM like they said they were at first I'd hate them too.

 

[Vigormortis]

I think I do see some of the logic behind your stance, but I just didn't immediatly believe what this support tech said to be true. It'd be great if it was true but I'm not holding out too many hopes. Again, call me a pessimist if you wish (it wouldn't be the first time, believe me).

Anyway, we are dealing with hypothesis here. Valve suddenly discontinuing Steam does seem very unlikely at this stage and up until that happens (if it does) we can still play Steam-games. I back-up them up, too, but more because I then don't need to download them again in the event of a pc issue/full pc upgrade.

P.S. I must agree with you on the "copyright laws"-bit, though.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not asserting that there isn't a chance Valve, in the event of Steam having to be shutdown, won't hold to their claim of "contingency plans" to allow users to retain access to their games. There's always a chance.

However, I keep two things in mind:

The first being that; and I'm willing to wager on this claim; the modding community will have workarounds up and running not twenty four hours after the Steam shutdown. As such, even if Valve doesn't patch in a workaround themselves, the community at large will have access to others, regardless.

The second being that the legal battles Valve would be swept up in as a result of the flood of lawsuits coming from angry gamers would far outweigh any potential legal battles Valve might face against other publishers in trying to remove DRM from third party titles.

Again, I'm not saying there's no possible way Valve would choose to abandon their contingency plans. But, when taking all other mitigating factors into account, the chances are so small it's highly improbable.

It would make more sense, legally and monetarily, for them to hold to their promise than it would to abandon it.

 

[MCerberus]

The reason steam gets the 'free pass' is because it isn't a free pass. They've pretty much always been straightforward that their features being payed for with the DRM. Does anyone remember the 'back in the day' where you had to fileplanet patches and hope you got the most recent vers- wait the client is saying I have the wrong patch trying to join a game. Or... you know... the hell that was Gamespy multiplayer services. We're talking an age where the Unreal Tournament series was known for having a FUNCTIONAL server browser.

Early steam was actually pretty awful. It was bloated relative to the 1/2 - 1 gig of memory your machine had. Feature-light. A whole 3 third-party games. No sales.

But still. AUTOPATCHING. You have no idea how awesome autopatching is.

 

[Tayh]

But still. AUTOPATCHING. You have no idea how awesome autopatching is.

About as awesome as having all your mods broken and your savegames invalid.
Oh yeah.
Manual control > automatic

Been steam-free since 2010, has yet to regret it. It's just so much more convenient to be able to directly start up a game, instead of having to wait for game/client patches and updates or being denied your game because your 'net is out.

Edit:
If you're going to quote me just to roll out the fanboy speech: save it. Heard it all; don't care.

 

[Xentek]

About as awesome as having all your mods broken and your savegames invalid.
Oh yeah.
Manual control > automatic

Been steam-free since 2010, has yet to regret it. It's just so much more convenient to be able to directly start up a game, instead of having to wait for game/client patches and updates or being denied your game because your 'net is out.

Right mouse > Properties > Updates > set to 'Do not automatically update this game' > close. That and savegames haven't been corrupted for any game I've owned due to updates, I even recall it having prompts before updating on a few games where this might be case. Maybe if your game is 10 years old, but then there probably won't be patches rolling out for it anymore. Also in the case of mods I have yet to see it reverting files, unless when you have it manually check the file integrity and only then will it re-download altered files. Lastly, if your net is out you start it in offline mode, whilst this doesn't seem to work flawlessly for everyone, Steam has already announced to improve the feature.

 

[FPLOON]

Well, I can easily tell you that all of the games on my Steam all came from "free" redeemable codes... and I have yet to install any of them due to two things...

1. The amount of GBs needed to install these particular games (in general) are a bit much for the overall space of my laptop... Sure, I ended up getting a new laptop last August (which came with Windows 8, meh, and twice as much space as my dying old one, YAY!), but that just leads into my next thing...

2. I rarely use Steam to begin with... Sure, I've used it to make friends (most from my Skype), enter different Steam groups (one of which I'm a moderator there... it's boring with nothing to moderate anyway), and sometimes bother people there instead of on Skype (which is kinda the reason why I haven't been on Skype in a long while), I rarely use it for what's it's mainly used for...

Now, don't get me wrong... It was my cousins that convinced me to even have a Steam account.. (and not because of a free Portal 2 game redeem code via used PS3 copy of Portal 2...) and now I mainly use the "online mode" to "spy" on what my "friends" are playing right now... (They all have Magicka installed and I don't... I don't know how to feel about that...)

captcha: Free Hopper Upgrade
I changed that to Free Half-Life Upgrade in my mind... My brain does what sometimes... (Oh hay! More Freeman's Mind...)

 

[bjj hero]

and have no interest in the cards

Then you're a fool. I made 14$ selling those dumb cards. It's extra money to buy new games, given to you for playing games.

People really buy those? I'll have to sell mine. Ill look into it.

 

[SilverUchiha]

I've never experienced any real issues with Steam at all. So I've never understood the whole hate towards it in general. Not saying they're perfect, nobody is. But just I have no valid reason to hate them and I've never understood the reasons others have since most people I know haven't had issues with Steam either. Therefore, I typically just right off people who hate Steam has haters/trolls or hipsters. Not accusing anyone here of being any of that, I'm just speaking generally.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I'm between a rock and a hard place with Steam.

On the one hand, since I've moved out my gaming budget has drastically decreased so Steam Sales are my best option right now.

On the other hand, I have a ridiculous 50GB datalimit each month, severely restricting what I can install considering my regular internet usage. It's a pain in the balls really.

 

[thiosk]

Steam appeals to me. I have become invested in the platform and all other platforms have crumbled against it.
I will most likely build a living room PC and put steam OS on it in the middle and long term.

I've never had a problem.

 

[Amaror]

I don't get the steam hate.
Yeah it's Drm. So what? There are a lot of horrible Drm practices out there, but steam isn't one of them. In fact, it's the absolute best of Drm, because it makes it easier to use the game, not harder.
I have all my games neatly stored in one place, were i can easily start them.
I don't have to use Dvd's constantly to install my games, yet it still is considerate of my limited dsl, by letting me backup my games. That way i can just download a game within minutes via the college wifi and then just easily install it on my gaming rig.
And even better: I don't have to search the dark corners of the internet to get my patches anymore, thank god.

snip

Amen, brother.
I still remember those horrible times. There were actually quite a few times were i had to go and edit the registry files of a game, because i had this one version were the patch refused to install with the normal registry entry. God, manual patching is just so annoying.

 

[Saidan]

Gotta love Steam's free games. And the sales, oh good lord those sales...