So Iceman is Gay Now
- Thread starter Mazinger-Z
- Start date
It started out as a Civil Rights metaphor, but has evolved into a Gay Rights metaphor as well. Essentially, it works pretty well for any group of people who are ostracized for something they literally have no control over, and where some "afflicted" might long for just getting rid of what makes them "afflicted" so they can be "normal". That's one of the biggest reasons that it can remain so popular and so current even 50 years after it was created.thaluikhain said:
Depends. Was he actually intended to be in the closet or is this just something that the new comics decided to go with? If the former, it's not a retcon. If the latter, it is a retcon albeit one that's comparatively easy to explain away and make fit with the priorly understood continuity. Well executed retcons are [usually] subtle enough that you don't realize they weren't always intended. Poorly executed ones are almost always blatant enough to pull the reader out of the story.thaluikhain said:
No, dude! This is a Comic Discussion!!!! You should be like this:Silentpony said:SweetShark said:
just my thoughts, i remember in one of the movies, someones parents saying "have you tried not being a mutant?"Silentpony said:
Well, isn't Jean Grey/Phoenix an incredibly powerful psychic, who can easily rewrite the minds of people in accordance with her whims?
Gay Agenda!
OT: But no, if people feel like buying a comic about a guy with god damn superpowers because he's something as ordinary and boring as gay, I suppose that's their business. If it's going to be all boring and serious and whatnot, then why not get an autobiography written by some actual real gay guy, though?
Gay Agenda!
OT: But no, if people feel like buying a comic about a guy with god damn superpowers because he's something as ordinary and boring as gay, I suppose that's their business. If it's going to be all boring and serious and whatnot, then why not get an autobiography written by some actual real gay guy, though?
I really can't stand most comics.
At least the Marvel Cinematic Universe seems to be going places. I've stopped reading comics exactly because no matter how interesting the core ideas are, the constant changes to the story, plot, characters, and the feeling that no end is definitive and no death as meaning weared out an old fan.
Now, do I mind this change? Nah. Just because most men fail at relationships with women a few times doesn't mean a few of them can't be gay. Repressed gay people are a thing. Iceman being gay doesn't conflict with nothing about his character.
At least the Marvel Cinematic Universe seems to be going places. I've stopped reading comics exactly because no matter how interesting the core ideas are, the constant changes to the story, plot, characters, and the feeling that no end is definitive and no death as meaning weared out an old fan.
Now, do I mind this change? Nah. Just because most men fail at relationships with women a few times doesn't mean a few of them can't be gay. Repressed gay people are a thing. Iceman being gay doesn't conflict with nothing about his character.
Very poorly done.
Ret-con's like this that break the history of a character are poor writing. An example of a similar situation that was handled well was Ultimate Colossus. With the Ultimate universe, it was an opportunity to rework characters with well established history as it was a new world with no pre-established history. Even though Peter was straight in the old world (Peter/Kitty 4ever), it was a fine chance to change this up and to establish him as gay in the ultimate universe because it didn't break anything. Him and Jean-Paul made a cute couple.
But tossing out established history and trying to turn everyone else into a beard by having Jean tell him he's not bi (isn't that a bit insulting, anyways, she's splaining to him what he is and is not? Even is she is a telepath...)
Bleh.
Ret-con's like this that break the history of a character are poor writing. An example of a similar situation that was handled well was Ultimate Colossus. With the Ultimate universe, it was an opportunity to rework characters with well established history as it was a new world with no pre-established history. Even though Peter was straight in the old world (Peter/Kitty 4ever), it was a fine chance to change this up and to establish him as gay in the ultimate universe because it didn't break anything. Him and Jean-Paul made a cute couple.
But tossing out established history and trying to turn everyone else into a beard by having Jean tell him he's not bi (isn't that a bit insulting, anyways, she's splaining to him what he is and is not? Even is she is a telepath...)
Bleh.
This is what I say every single time. Why is it so hard for them to make new hero's that are homosexual? It would be so much better if they created a hero that begins as a homosexual since it would actually part of his/hers identity instead of just *poof* there you go (no pun intended). Especially since it's so much easier to create a more interesting hero than Iceman.Aerosteam said:
I will fite you IRL over this.PsychicTaco115 said:
Retconning retcons is a chronic illness in the comic industry. It never really stops, it just mutates into new forms.
If this was all there was to it, then I'd agree, but it's the first issue of a multiple-issue arc. Let's not jump to assumptions about the quality of the story involved.kris40k said:
If they do manage to pull off an arc exploring self-denial, that could end up being pretty good.
Silvanus said:
But nah, I get where you're coming from. Probably will need to see how they work this out. It does reek a bit like the Squirrel Girl/Uatu bit [http://thumbsnap.com/i/VvHf8noM.jpg] as a way to handwave away anyone saying Bobby is bisexual, which would actually make better sense with the established history, by saying "I, Jean Grey, with my telepathic senses, can confirm, in fact, that you are Bobby Drake and are fully gay, and not bisexual, or a robot or clone."
So Jean Gray is a man and the love triangle with her Wolverine and Cyclops is a homosexual one is it? Also Colossus and Shadowcat. Gay? The idea of the Xmen comes from all sorts of social discrimination. The idea that people fear what is different. Not just gay.Silentpony said:
Anyway.
Typical Marvel and DC today. Changing an already established perfectly fine character by making them a homosexual. Because they have no real faith in the idea of homosexuality as an interesting attribute for a character, so they hammer it onto an already popular established character, in the hopes that the vocal minority on the internet will stop bullying them on twitter.
If you wan't to have gay people in comics create new gay characters. That way no one gets pissed off. Characters like Wiccan are fucking model examples of how to do gay superheroes right. He's cool and he has a story which uses homosexuality as a decent sub story.
Marvel get off you're ass and give gay comic readers new and interesting characters they can read about. Not just lazily say oh yeah that ones gay now.
Pathetic.
